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Why do Poles come to England?

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DaisyThreads: 16 Posts: 2,172 Joined: Apr 28, 07	Aug 24, 07, 12:37 / #
Quoting: ArturSzastak Probably got kicked out. probably right

ArturSzastakThreads: 6 Posts: 828 Joined: Feb 16, 07	Aug 24, 07, 12:39 / #
He might be going for a record. "Most countries 1 man has ever been exiled from"

Lady in red	Aug 24, 07, 12:46 / #
Quoting: ArturSzastak "Most countries 1 man has ever been exiled from" Yes. Wonder whether that is why he can 'speak' many different languages then ? :)

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07	Aug 24, 07, 13:47 / #
Quoting: Lady in red ou also re write the polish language to suit your 'head' too....... Yes, I am no expert-I simply like to dabble and why not? I make mistakes all the time and learn from those mistakes. The Polish on this forum also make dreadful mistakes too for that matter. You can not expect me to think in three languages at all times together and faitr any better than anybody else. After all, I am not a professional translator and I do not expect payment If people want a professional job they can always go and pay a translator for their services! On the whole, I can make myself understood in Poland and I never have any problems it is just another slavonic language at the end of the day with a simplified alphabet! Try Russian translation some day and see the true difference!

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Aug 24, 07, 13:51 / #
HET :)

_Sofi_	Aug 24, 07, 13:51 / #
Quoting: Michal not a professional translator and I do not expect payment it is nice of you to make the translations, same as with everyone else here who does it for free.

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07	Aug 24, 07, 13:52 / #
Quoting: _Sofi_ t is nice of you to make the translations, same as with everyone else here who does it for free. From now on 100 rubles for each word!

_Sofi_	Edited by: _Sofi_ Aug 24, 07, 14:01 / #
Quoting: Michal 100 rubles you amuse me - are you deliberately planting these 'hints' everywhere or have I missed an admission?

Lady in red	Aug 24, 07, 14:07 / #
Quoting: Michal You can not expect No one expects or wants anything from you. You called someone else 'arrogant' on this forum in another post. I say to you, that you are the 'arrogant' one thinking everyone needs you to translate for them. Lot's of people are very willing and kindly help out with the translations in a nice, informal manner. Without being horrible towars other posters. If you read the previous posts properly, you would see that no one is 'expecting' you to be an expert. You don't even read properly what people do write, maybe because you do not understand 'English' as well as you think you do. You often misinterpret people's posts on here. Then you post not nice things about Polish people and their way of life. I pity you. Life is here to be lived and enjoyed with other people, not constantly being at loggerheads with them.

Aug 24, 07, 14:22 / #

Quoting: Kilkline

What did the Russians 'free' Eastern Europe from?

The Russians did clear the Germans out of Poland which cost the Russians at least a million lives.

The Russian armies which pushed the Germans out of Poland consisted of the Belorussian Front / Ukrainian Front which included the Polish 1st and 2nd Armies

Major Offensives:

1. Operation Bagration (June 1944- August 1944)
Russians push Germans out of Eastern Poland, Ukraine and Belarus.
Estimated Casualties : Germans 300,000 Russians 100,000 killed

2. Lublin-Brest Offensive (July 1944- September 1944)
Russain attack to clear Germans from Central Poland. Russians secure Lublin and Brest regions however stop on the shores of the Vistula river across from Warsaw where the Poles were Uprising against the Germans.
Casualties : Germans 120,000 Russians 80,000 killed

3. Lvov-Sandomierz Offensive (July 1944)
Russians drive Germans out of Lwow and Sandomierz region
Estimated Casualties: Germans 300,000 Russians 100,000 killed

4. Vistula-Oder Offensive (January 1945- February 1945)
Russians drive from the Vistula to the Oder river pushing the Germans out of Poland.
Estimated Casualties: Germans 100,000 Russians 80,000 killed

5. Battle of Berlin (April 1945- May 1945)
Russians/Polish Army drives into Berlin and captures the capital of Nazi Germany.
Estimated Casualties: Germans 458,00 Russians 300,000 killed

Hence we Poles must remember that many Russian lives were lost to rid Poland of German Occupation

daffyThreads: 40 Posts: 2,119 Joined: Feb 5, 07	Aug 24, 07, 14:31 / #
Quoting: witek Hence we Poles must remember that many Russian lives were lost to rid Poland of German Occupation In order to replace it with the 'Russian Occupation... When the germans were on the Run out of Warsaw, why did the red army sit on the other side of the Wisla river while Varsovians fought for 63 days uprising! (of which the Russian radio'd warsaw to start!) AND the red army did NOT allow the british to use its airfields to airdrop supplies to the AK!! and when they did it was already too late! So lets not forget that poland doesn't forget the German occupation, the russian occupation or the betrayal by roosevelt, churchill and stalin (in Tehran conf.) that decided polands fate for after the war WITHOUT polands knowledge! As to WHY the Poles come to england - to make a living id imagine!? why else migrate?

Lady in red	Aug 24, 07, 14:34 / #
Well said Daffy :)

OscypekThreads: - Posts: 116 Joined: Jan 11, 07	Edited by: Oscypek Aug 24, 07, 15:03 / #
Getting back the the earlier part of this thread about Polish people coming to the UK (est. 400,000), did you know that 385,000 young UK citizens emigrated to other countries? It sounds like a trade off. Have a look at the link, there are some interesting comments. ----------------------- Record numbers are leaving Britain Posted by Robin Yapp on 22 Aug 2007 at 13:47 Tags: Britain, ex-pats, migration, ONS blogs.telegraph.co.uk/ukcorrespondents/makingnews/aug07/recordnumbersl eavebritain.htm

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Aug 24, 07, 15:40 / #
Quoting: daffy When the germans were on the Run out of Warsaw, why did the red army sit on the other side of the Wisla river Apart from the obvious fact that uncle joe couldnt care less about warsaws fate ; After a major offensive across belorussia,ukraine and eastern Poland the RKKA (the "Red Army " is civil war/post war name) was exhausted with huge supply lines and coping with the problems of resupplying over land the germans had destroyed in their retreat. Also,The germans may have been " on the run " from Warsaw but the western banks of the vistula (apart from the magniuszew bridgehead) were firmly held by strong,fresh german forces. No army attacks blindly into a major city as street fighting causes the highest casualty figures in modern warfare , nor can an army easily mount a crossing of a major river underfire without weeks of preperation, as demonstrated when elements of the Polish 1diw tried to reach Czerniakow and were slaughtered mid river(or indead the Polish airborne a few days later in Holland trying and failing to cross the rhine to come to the aid of british soldiers) and resupply was impposible. Quoting: daffy while Varsovians fought for 63 days uprising! Not all fought by a long shot,yes the heros af the Armia krajowa and other underground movements rose up to fight and were joined by many warsawians either fighting or helping to run the liberated parts of the city. But many people wanted nothing to do with the uprising and the death and destruction it brought for nearly 200thousand civilians with no choice in the matter. Quoting: daffy (of which the Russian radio'd warsaw to start!) this was actually Polish communist radio broadcasting from lublin and a bit disengenuas as plans for Operation Tempest had been made months before hand and the London gov' would have gone ahead with a rising regardless of any such broadcasts from people already not trusted by the AK et al Quoting: daffy AND the red army did NOT allow the british to use its airfields to airdrop supplies to the AK!! again,the RKKA would not have had any say in this ,Stavka might but records show this was a direct order from uncle joe himself. Plus the fact that in a tightly controlled airspace you dont want to risk provoking an international incident with "friendly fire" (as happened but later hushed up). Anyhow,the RAF (british ,commenwealth and Polish aircrews) did fly heroic missions to Warsaw and the surrounding countryside from a base in Brindisi and managed to drop much needed supplies,unlike the ONE flight of USAAF planes which did more to re supply the germans than anything the OKH had done... . Quoting: daffy betrayal by roosevelt, churchill and stalin (in Tehran conf.) Yes and serious historians (not patriotic tub thumpers) also recognise that many Poles "betrayed" Poland,the lublin "government"...Berling(not all his soldiers) etc Britain had been fighting 2 days less than Poland,do you seriously expect that churchil would have led us to certain defeat against the USSR in an unwinnable fight? Come on,he was english not a romantic Pole or Scot on a fool hardy fight to the death for honor thing..... Dont let anyone take away the heroics of the AK from this,just dont simplyfy history,it doesnt do their memory justice k.

misiek	Aug 24, 07, 15:43 / #
99% of us comes to UK because of obvious reason... Many of just here appreciated Poland and will go back one day (who shouts the loudest 'NEVER', will go back in first drop). Regards

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Aug 24, 07, 15:50 / #
Quoting: misiek 99% of us comes to UK because of obvious reason... its our 6 day summer isnt it,come on,admit it:)

misiek	Aug 24, 07, 15:54 / #
Quoting: isthatu ts our 6 day summer isnt it,come on,admit it:) Have you been flying today ? :) I think thats the only way you can see the sun this year. Regards

FrankThreads: 27 Posts: 1,342 Joined: Aug 14, 06	Aug 24, 07, 16:47 / #
Hence we Poles must remember that many Russian lives were lost to rid Poland of German Occupation Not quite, it was merely to put in place the original pre 1939 plan to carve up Poland between the two major which went a little pear shaped......ie...the Germans tried to shaft the Russians, so the Russians needed to shaft them back........fortunately for the rest of Europe they bled each other to near death....each regime was equally distasteful...each responsible for the greatest crimes against humanity ever recorded......a plague on both their houses! The Russian bear is alive and well and only to happy to savage any country that treats it disrespectfully......in its own opinion actually.

misiek	Aug 24, 07, 17:46 / #
Quoting: Frank greatest crimes against humanity ever recorded Bit off topic but.. what means the greatest? Amount of deaths or who (and how dies?) If the first one is concerned then .. china is on a lead (communism 100 milion victims - interesting book) Second one I leave without comment :) Regards

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Aug 24, 07, 18:12 / #
Quoting: Frank fortunately for the rest of Europe they bled each other to near death.... unfortunatly it is never the regime's who do the bleeding just the everyday people dragged into both Dictatorships grubby wars of conquest. Quoting: Frank The Russian bear is alive and well and only to happy to savage any country that treats it disrespectfully......in its own opinion actually. I loved the photo in our press here in the UK of some ancient soviet era "bear" bomber looking like a relic from WW2 beside our brand new typhoon fighters :) dont worry too much just yet about the russian bear,all putin has is a house of cards.impressive from the outside but weak on the inside,,,, k. ps,I wonder how long before this thread just disapears as though dragged off to siberia never to be spoken of again outloud?

Aug 24, 07, 21:21 / #

Quoting: isthatu

(the "Red Army " is civil war/post war name) was exhausted with huge supply lines and coping with the problems of resupplying over land the germans had destroyed in their retreat

Is that what they told you in 1944? Your naivety is spectacular.

Quoting: isthatu

as demonstrated when elements of the Polish 1diw tried to reach Czerniakow and were slaughtered mid river

No matter how prepared - you get casualties (hear about D-day?) Poles had the right spirit. They were just as "exhausted" but they were too few. At least they tried. They did'nt get the back up to succeed. They didnt need the whole red army to break through.

Quoting: isthatu

risk provoking an international incident with "friendly fire"

Again this happens in war - soldiers were surrounded by chaos at this time. It's NO EXCUSE for denying these heroic missions landing space.

Quoting: isthatu

Not all fought by a long shot,yes the heros af the Armia krajowa and other underground movements

You child. What does it matter how many fought? The fact that the majority did is enough. They did it for principal. I thought you knew your history? They had no choice becuase they knew their neighbours intentions (from history). They stood and fought for their own freedom. Why? Because they would have rather died than be ruled by Russia again. You have no idea.

Quoting: isthatu

Dont let anyone take away the heroics of the AK from this

You just did.

Quoting: isthatu

Britain had been fighting 2 days less than Poland

Britain was dropping leaflets. France whistled into the wind.

Poland took on the German army alone. 2 days my *ss.

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06	Aug 24, 07, 21:24 / #
Quoting: Magdalena I am sorry, but I really do not understand the above sentence. how did you become a teacher then? anyway.. you said you interpret /teach and heard other Polish saying that they as a country will never catch up.. and cant wait to leave. or am I getting your message wrong? I just find it very upsetting that you would say that, and yet you say Poland is your country.. we all know that it as well as other countries have their faults but the people do what they can to the best of their ability.. for so many years Poland was Pulled in two different directions.. what would you expect from them? yes they are proud of their accomplishments as anyone would be.. and you as a teacher should be saying those I have come across have taught me as well.. I dont know why anyone would even take on a job where they feel the people are so full of themselfs.. if you can be so opinionated about it, please dont bother to teach those who must have needed you at the time.. its too bad that you feel that way.. so basically it means nothing to you what so ever.. I know that unfortunately People take careers that they do not like for the money and no compassion what so ever.. the two most important are teaching and medical.. both require patience and compassion for those they surround.. no more to say.

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06	Aug 24, 07, 21:32 / #
Quoting: Michal Yes, I must agree, she sounds very pompous-even worse than me! so your agreeing that your a pompus .. you walked into that one michal.. :) I can respect that you have risen to the plate.. now all we need to do is help you learn how to be more tactful when you are in discussions. Quoting: Michal Russian soldiers would return to their homeland after their magnificiant work freeing eastern Europe in 1945. The Russian soldiers did quite a bit of damage.. Magnificiant isnt the word I would use.. its too bad everyones historical insight doesnt match.

ogorekThreads: - Posts: 233 Joined: Dec 16, 06	Aug 24, 07, 21:37 / #
Poles come to England because they are in the EU - as in union. Member countries are one and movement of people is expected. People go to whichever part of the union that is most attractive to them at the time. England is most attractive at this time. Tomorrow it will somewhere else. Some will stay - some will leave. For poles the attraction is better wages (for now). Brits go to Spain for the weather. etc etc In 100 years the EU population will be completely mixed.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	Edited by: ukpolska Aug 25, 07, 00:55 / #
Quoting: UKGUY The polish just come because they don't like their countrym they believe that any country is better than their's, and because in England they think they can make alot of mkoney Errrmm, to be truthful I can find nothing wrong with this statement at all because I have heard the same thing from Polish people in 7 years of living here now. But that is what I have heard, and no doubt other people have heard differently than myself and will disagree with this; but the strange thing is, do I have right to say this without being accused of being a racist and in return my country being attacked??? I think the problem here is that people are looking for things to react to, but hey I am stating the obvious here it is a forum after-all. All I'm saying guys is keep it in perspective and read a post for what it is, no doubt the guy is confrontational, but if the cap fits lets wear it. Quoting: randompal I don't think any country is better than Poland, and certainly not England, which is full of fat arrogant bores, bad food, and weather even worse than Poland's. As I said above, "but if the cap fits lets wear it", yep I am a fat Englishman who needs to go on a diet, but that is my Polish wife's fault as she is such a dam good cook, plus the beer beer is so good!!! Wouldn't say I'm a bore though.... arrogant of course, all Polish are stupid ;O)

sledzThreads: 29 Posts: 3,202 Joined: Sep 19, 06	Edited by: sledz Aug 25, 07, 01:02 / #
Hey cant you guys get a little more original UKpolska UK UKinpolska UKEng UKguy geez it gets confusing??

truebritThreads: 3 Posts: 230 Joined: May 19, 06	Aug 25, 07, 01:02 / #
Quoting: UKGUY The polish just come because they don't like their countrym they believe that any country is better than their's, and because in England they think they can make alot of mkoney Another reason they come to work in England/Britain is that this is one of the best places in the world to live and work.

EurolaThreads: 6 Posts: 2,647 Joined: Dec 2, 06	Aug 25, 07, 01:10 / #
Quoting: truebrit they come to work in England/Britain is that this is one of the best places in the world to live and work. Poles have ALWAyS went places for search of a better life. We are EVERYWHERE from New Zealand to Alaska, Argentina, Australia, USA...you name it, we're there. So, what's a little trip to UK. Nothing, especially that it was made so easy in the EU.

FrankThreads: 27 Posts: 1,342 Joined: Aug 14, 06	Aug 25, 07, 04:07 / #
Quoting: Eurola Nothing, especially that it was made so easy in the EU. Especially as they can get paid for it, Polish people this year, Bulgarians next, then Romanians....wots new? The Irish did it for 200 years.....its all on one big cycle......sometimes we were gratefully recieved, sometimes disgracefully......I would like to think as Polish people keep coming to both islands that they get what they want and are well treated....if you get shafted on an individual basis......don't take it personally......!!

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Edited by: isthatu Aug 25, 07, 05:51 / #
Quoting: isthatu (the "Red Army " is civil war/post war name) was exhausted with huge supply lines and coping with the problems of resupplying over land the germans had destroyed in their retreat Is that what they told you in 1944? Your naivety is spectacular. [/quote] ok,thats clever,take one line and twist it.....in origional post that was one of many reasons,the main as i so obviously pointed out was Stalins wish to see Poland on its knees... Quoting: ogorek Quoting: isthatu as demonstrated when elements of the Polish 1diw tried to reach Czerniakow and were slaughtered mid river No matter how prepared - you get casualties (hear about D-day?) Poles had the right spirit. They were just as "exhausted" but they were too few. At least they tried. They did'nt get the back up to succeed. They didnt need the whole red army to break through. Yes,they tried,and fair game to them but it was never going to be more than a suicide mission and they never win wars. Quoting: ogorek Quoting: isthatu risk provoking an international incident with "friendly fire" Again this happens in war - soldiers were surrounded by chaos at this time. It's NO EXCUSE for denying these heroic missions landing space. Quoting: ogorek again,I dont think I did say it was a "valid" excuse,just that it was one semi accepted by all nations.(btw,put your self underfire mate and then tell me whats an excuse or not)[quote=ogorek] Quoting: isthatu Not all fought by a long shot,yes the heros af the Armia krajowa and other underground movements You child. What does it matter how many fought? The fact that the majority did is enough. They did it for principal. I thought you knew your history? They had no choice becuase they knew their neighbours intentions (from history). They stood and fought for their own freedom. Why? Because they would have rather died than be ruled by Russia again. You have no idea. erm,all I said there was that not all the residents of warsaw fought or even wanted the uprising,fact ,pure and simple and very highly documented even in the uprising museum in warsw. Funny I dont see any reference in my post to implly that the AK (or indead al etc) didnt fight and die valiantly,maybe you will read it again instead of jumping to paranoid/persecuted default mode when this subject is raised. Quoting: ogorek Quoting: isthatu Dont let anyone take away the heroics of the AK from this You just did. Ok , challenge you to back up that satement with facts Quoting: ogorek Quoting: isthatu Britain had been fighting 2 days less than Poland Britain was dropping leaflets. France whistled into the wind. Poland took on the German army alone. 2 days my *ss. Check your history books mate,Germany invaded Poland on the 1st Britain declared war on the 3rd...= 2 days more ( but if you want me to bring up the fact that beyond the defenders of warsaw effective Polish resistence broke down in around 17 days I will do) Yes your forces were all around the world slowly re forming and performing a valuable service in the fight against germany but if left to fight "alone" do you think you would be a free country now? seriously,if Britain had stood by and not opened up a second front Poland would have ceased to exist decades ago either swalloed by a nazi or communist rule unopposed by any in the outside world. Its all the in the history books and as public record in both our nations and I stand by what Ive said knowing full well that anyone with a serious interest in Polish history beyond vague national pride would and do back me up on. k.