What are Polish Peoples Views of a Re-United Ireland

PlasticPole:

Well, what you do is you reach out to people. You say ask them questions about their native lands and they ask about yours. You learn a little about their language, they learn a lot about yours since they live in your country although a lot of you speak English which isn't your native language anyway, it's just for the sake of convenience.

Ireland32Threads: 2 Posts: 234 Joined: Feb 23, 09	Aug 24, 09, 12:55 / #
There has been a long and well documented struggle in Ireland to seek the re-unification of the country. The 6 counties in the North continued to be divided from the 26 in the South, which operates its own affairs. Some people accept that it makes sense, both socially and economically for the island to be re-unified. Others see the right to remain part of the British establishment and stay loyal to the crown (England). For Polish people living in Ireland, do you have an opinion on this subject? Do you see the struggle for a Re-unification of Ireland as a worthy cause or a figment of Irish peoples imagination? Your honest opinions please.

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Aug 24, 09, 13:05 / #
I'm not Polish and I don't live in Ireland, but my prediction: Most Polish people in both the Irish republic and Ulster really, really don't care. Inside Poland, Poles have a reflex to support independence movements but it really only kicks in high gear when the independence movement is against an enemy (like supporting Chechens against Russia). To the extent that the reunification movement is perceived as damaging Britian, which is perceived as a longterm ally (rightly or wrongly) they don't care. Also, the great majority of Poles who are now in Ireland are very apolitical and don't care about the government situation as long as they can make a living and save a few pounds.

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Aug 24, 09, 13:07 / #
Unite my friend.. unite!

Ireland32Threads: 2 Posts: 234 Joined: Feb 23, 09	Edited by: Ireland32 Aug 24, 09, 13:10 / #
Lodz_The_Boat: Unite my friend.. unite! I pray you listen to the speech below of the last words of James Connolly one of the leaders of the 1916 Rising. A man who lived and fought for the working class people of Ireland.....all religions and nationalities.

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Aug 24, 09, 13:13 / #
Ireland32: A man who lived and fought for the working class people of Ireland.....all religions and nationalities. Sounds like a good man. Such men are needed in todays society.

Ireland32Threads: 2 Posts: 234 Joined: Feb 23, 09	Aug 24, 09, 13:15 / #
mafketis: Also, the great majority of Poles who are now in Ireland are very apolitical and don't care about the government situation I disagree with you on this. Polish people ran in the local elections recently in Ireland for a well known political party. A number of them attend functions and fundrasing events which support the re-unification of Ireland. I was recently asked by a Polish lady if I could get her some T-shirts depicting Irelands struggle to send home to her brothers !

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Aug 24, 09, 13:18 / #
Why dont you guys go to UN.. send the messege of your struggle around the world in a more effective way. The best thing would be to go and make friends and help seminars or discussion in places where there were British rule, and they got independance. E.g. USA, India, Some African nations... etc.

Ireland32Threads: 2 Posts: 234 Joined: Feb 23, 09	Aug 24, 09, 13:24 / #
Lodz_The_Boat: Why dont you guys go to UN.. send the messege of your struggle around the world in a more effective way. The best thing would be to go and make friends and help seminars or discussion in places where there were British rule, and they got independance. E.g. USA, India, Some African nations... etc. Our struggle is well known trhoughout the four corners of the globe. It has become tarnished in later years due to dissident organisations. The spirit of 1916 continues to drive us forward in our quest to re-unite what was taken from us. Padraig Pearse another leader of the 1916 Rising below.....

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Edited by: Lodz_The_Boat Aug 24, 09, 13:26 / #
Ireland32: Our struggle is well known trhoughout the four corners of the globe I cannot agree there. Its known perhaps...but not well known. Its your job to make it well known if you really want unity of your land so much. And in Europe its going to work, but not as much as places where they have felt the pain you must be feeling. You can establish a brotherhood there. But you need to go forward for that. Polish people can have solidarity... maybe a few will make extra efforts for their new country... but you must take an extra step. And the remaining ofcouse depends on how much you want it. Early 1900 leaders were good... but you need someone now. Or wait for another few hundred years to get another youtube video of another great mans speech.

Ireland32Threads: 2 Posts: 234 Joined: Feb 23, 09	Aug 24, 09, 13:31 / #
Lodz_The_Boat: Its your job to make it well known if you really want unity of your land so much I have spent my life dedicated to the cause of Irish Unity. I have travelled far and wide to spread the word and gain support.

PaulieThreads: 1 Posts: 49 Joined: Aug 15, 09	Aug 24, 09, 14:20 / #
Ireland 32 What about the 1 million or so unionists in Northern Ireland? Who by their very definition want to keep the unionification with the crown? How can they be convinced to join a republic? Surely, they would have to re-define themselves as Irish protestants instead of british loyalists/unionists? Can you see this ever happening?

RevokeNiceThreads: 21 Posts: 2,765 Joined: Jun 20, 09	Edited by: RevokeNice Aug 24, 09, 14:59 / #
Ireland32: I have spent my life dedicated to the cause of Irish Unity. What is the point of a United Ireland if the Irish people are minorities in their own land? Non Irish will not support a United Ireland for a number of reasons. Firstly, a United Ireland would make them a smaller minority in this state than they already would be prior to partition, reducing their political power as they would be electing a smaller Dail bloc. Secondly, and most importantly, without Irish roots they would be less inclined to feel like the heirs to Irish republicanism or Irish Nationalism. Feel free to dispute my perspective, as I know you will. Mass immigration represents the same threat to the identity and future of loyalist natives on this island as it does to us. There in lies the nucleus of a real United Ireland. Goodnight Sinn Fein, sleep well.

Ireland32Threads: 2 Posts: 234 Joined: Feb 23, 09	Edited by: Ireland32 Aug 24, 09, 15:51 / #
Paulie: What about the 1 million or so unionists in Northern Ireland? Who by their very definition want to keep the unionification with the crown? How can they be convinced to join a republic? Surely, they would have to re-define themselves as Irish protestants instead of british loyalists/unionists? Can you see this ever happening? There are approx 1 million people would occupy the 6 counties of which approx 42% are of nationalist persuasion. How to convince the approx 48% unionist. Well the country as a whole works on a daily basis as one in matters such as security, agriculture etc. Remember that these people were Irish protestants before they were British Loyalists. Education on the benefits of an all island Ireland is the only way. RevokeNice: Mass immigration represents the same threat to the identity and future of loyalist natives on this island as it does to us. There in lies the nucleus of a real United Ireland. Goodnight Sinn Fein, sleep well. Jasus I have never heard such utter crap. Firstly a re-unification of Ireland will only ocurr when the unionist majoriy in the North are convinced of the benefits that can be had from an all island approach. Economically this will make sense, socially it is harder to achieve. If there are other demoninations or cultures that enter that equation then so be it. They too must be convinced.

RevokeNiceThreads: 21 Posts: 2,765 Joined: Jun 20, 09	Edited by: RevokeNice Aug 24, 09, 16:15 / #
Paulie: Just curious, what went wrong? Divide and conquer. The Brits used the same method around the world. While Ireland32 worries himself about the inevitable, a United Ireland, the Irish people are on their way to becoming a minority in their own land!

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Aug 24, 09, 13:33 / #
Ireland32: I have travelled far and wide to spread the word Like where? Do something. Give us all a view of the activities going on. And where? Not your super secret activities...but the ones to gain a support! I hope its not confined to Poland (i add this, as its a Polish forum, and you seem interested in Poland due to which you are here...so maybe something can be going on here aswell) and Ireland.

Ireland32Threads: 2 Posts: 234 Joined: Feb 23, 09	Edited by: Ireland32 Aug 24, 09, 13:37 / #
Lodz_The_Boat: Early 1900 leaders were good... but you need someone now. Or wait for another few hundred years to get another youtube video of another great mans speech. I am simply trying to demonstrate the leaders who have given all for re-unification We have always had men to carry the mantle Booby Sands RIP Lodz_The_Boat: Do something. Give us all a view of the activities going on. And where? Where have you been living for the last 30 years.......in a cave. I am an active member of Sinn Fein. A political organisation that supports and works for the re-unification of Ireland, for all the people of Ireland, regardless of race, colour, creed etc. Our pricinples are based on Freedom, Justice, Peace & Equality. The movement has been around for approx 100 years. We have allied parties throughout Europe and America. We have elected politicians in Ireland and in the EU.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,726 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Edited by: SeanBM Aug 24, 09, 14:03 / #
Interesting thread, I am curious as the Polish people, who have been living in Ireland for a few years now, begin to settle for the long term they will get more involved in the politics of Ireland. When I say I am Irish, here in Poland a lot of people then refer to me as British, I inform them that I am not. The understanding of what is and has happened in Ireland is not great here but there is a huge change since Polish people have gone to Ireland, the mixing of the two cultures has improved understanding immensely. I think as Poles in Ireland learn the history and become part of the community and more importantly see for themselves what it is like, they will understand why a reunited Ireland is inevitable. Ireland32: It has become tarnished in later years due to dissident organisations. I wonder how Poles view, the recent shooting of the two British soldiers and the Polish pizza man?. It is important to me, that we obtain re-unification through non-violent means.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,429 Joined: May 28, 09	Aug 24, 09, 15:51 / #
RevokeNice: What is the point of a United Ireland if the Irish people are minorities in their own land? Well, what you do is you reach out to people. You say ask them questions about their native lands and they ask about yours. You learn a little about their language, they learn a lot about yours since they live in your country although a lot of you speak English which isn't your native language anyway, it's just for the sake of convenience.

RevokeNiceThreads: 21 Posts: 2,765 Joined: Jun 20, 09	Edited by: RevokeNice Aug 24, 09, 16:00 / #
PlasticPole: Well, what you do is you reach out to people. You say ask them questions about their native lands and they ask about yours. You learn a little about their language, they learn a lot about yours since they live in your country although a lot of you speak English which isn't your native language anyway, it's just for the sake of convenience. What a load of nonsense. Why should we reach out to foreigners, they choose to come here. The onus should be on them to integrate. Did you ever think that maybe the Irish people do not want to integrate with the foreigner? All of us speak English. Some of us speak Irish. Ireland32 Upon re-unification the North would become a burden on the south. At present it is subsidised by the Brits. Why would economic migrants vote for something that would have a negative effect on the Irish economy? They are only here for money, they will look upon this differently than me or you. Once the nation is re-unified, it will take 20-30 years for it to have a postive over all effect on the economy. It would take time. Small acorns and all that.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,429 Joined: May 28, 09	Aug 24, 09, 16:03 / #
RevokeNice: What a load of nonsense. Why should we reach out to foreigners, they choose to come here. The onus should be on them to integrate. Did you ever think that maybe the Irish people do not want to integrate with the foreigner? All of us speak English. Some of us speak Irish. Yeah but in order to be friends and live side by side you have to learn something about their culture from their native lands and if you reach out to each other in a friendly way you will want to learn because you are friends :) Riiiiight?

PaulieThreads: 1 Posts: 49 Joined: Aug 15, 09	Aug 24, 09, 16:14 / #
Ireland32: Remember that these people were Irish protestants before they were British Loyalists. Just curious, what went wrong?

PiorunThreads: - Posts: 741 Joined: Nov 11, 07	Aug 24, 09, 16:15 / #
I agree that without Irish roots they would be less inclined to feel like the heirs to Irish republicanism or Irish Nationalism but the first point you have made is completely false, more likely they would be indifferent. Being indifferent does not put them in the enemy camp. Seems like the lines are well defined on both sides of the issue in Ireland, the people are very passionate about it and they are set in their conviction, therefore it's very important for you to educate the minority and sway their opinion to your cause, not to alienate them through extreme nationalism. Who knows how it will play out but if you ever make a peaceful attempt to reunite through some kind of referendum in the near future you will need all the support you can get of the local inhabitants of the land, no matter if they are Irish through and through or resent settlers there. If you choose armed struggle for the reunification of Ireland extreme nationalism plays a very important role and it's not necessarily a bad thing either, the choice is yours. Being Polish makes me more sympathetic to your cause then you might think. However statements like this RevokeNice: Why would the Irish working class want to befriend the very people who are cutting their wages and living standards? You are living in multiculti la la land. would make me think twice. I would simple have to be there and see how the locals view me because I don't think you represent the majority of Irish people. At the moment I'm not there so I'm indifferent but sympathetic.

PaulieThreads: 1 Posts: 49 Joined: Aug 15, 09	Aug 24, 09, 16:26 / #
Ireland32: Ireland32 RevokeNice: RevokeNice Question : Ok, I'm not really qualified on the subject but if there was to be a referendum tomorrow in both Northern Ireland and Rep. of Ireland on re-unification, then surely : Total population of the Island = 5 million, right? Total no. of loyalists/unionists = less than 1 million. Therefore, simple maths would say that a referendum for a united ireland should carry by approx 4/5 majority. Am I being too presumptuous?

RevokeNiceThreads: 21 Posts: 2,765 Joined: Jun 20, 09	Aug 24, 09, 16:28 / #
Paulie: Am I being too presumptuous? Yes.

PaulieThreads: 1 Posts: 49 Joined: Aug 15, 09	Aug 24, 09, 16:29 / #
RevokeNice: Yes. Why?

Ireland32Threads: 2 Posts: 234 Joined: Feb 23, 09	Edited by: Ireland32 Aug 24, 09, 16:29 / #
RevokeNice: The poll was conducted after it was revealed in the Sunday Independent last week that the number of foreign nationals on the Live Register is now about 80,000 -- or around 20 per cent of the total. Labour, Green Party, Independents.......didnt see any of your elected reps there.....oh thats right you dont have any yet....or ever !! RevokeNice: How many leaders of a political party where there? That video clip went down a storm in West Dublin, let me tell you. It was previously a Sinn Fein strong hold. Not anymore! All I see in your video clip are people with Irish passports ! RevokeNice: In the last general election, Sinn Fein, no points! The last general election ?? Every small party suffered - Greens, PD's, etc due to the media turning it into a battle of Bertie v Enda and you know that !! Paulie: Am I being too presumptuous? If only it were that simple. In order for it to carry there must be a majority of the people in the 6 counties. That is written into our laws. Did you know that the then prime minister of UK, Winston Churchill was willing to grant Ireland its re-unification if it gave up its neutrality and fought with the British during WW2?

PaulieThreads: 1 Posts: 49 Joined: Aug 15, 09	Aug 24, 09, 16:41 / #
Ireland32: In order for it to carry there must be a majority of the people in the 6 counties. How long before the 6 counties are majority nationalist/catholic ? Could the Polish in the 6 counties vote? if so I'm sure they could be persuaded to vote for a united ireland. But, if that carries in the north, then would it automatically carry in the south? I mean, do southern irish citizens really want re-unification?

RevokeNiceThreads: 21 Posts: 2,765 Joined: Jun 20, 09	Edited by: Moderator Aug 24, 09, 16:42 / #
Paulie: How long before the 6 counties are majority nationalist/catholic ? Could the Polish in the 6 counties vote? if so I'm sure they could be persuaded to vote for a united ireland. He is spouting nonsense, in la la Sinn Fein land they believe that once nationalists hit the 51% of the population mark that thats it. Referendum time. It is laughable, I suggest you read the GFA, it is available online. Read my earlier response to the goon. The Good Friday Agreement precludes a United Ireland in the future on the same basis that it precludes one in the present. Its only possible to be in favour of both if you are; a-stupid b-very stupid c-have not read the Stormont treaty(defunct now) d-all of the above and a member of Sinn Fein *Now Ireland32, the meat packer done good, the political genius, the man of the people, both foreign and native, will come back with his usual resorts. "Jasus what nonsense you silly prick." Where is the smily function when you need it? This geezer is comedy gold. Please read forum rule #8, next time there will be NO warning .

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08	Aug 24, 09, 16:51 / #
We will all be swallowed up by the big European monster soon enough anyway.

Ireland32Threads: 2 Posts: 234 Joined: Feb 23, 09	Aug 24, 09, 16:56 / #
RevokeNice: Heres the answer to that partionist, rifle dropping, surrender monkey, Ireland32 At least I picked one up you fecking armchair patriot and recognised the time to put it down. You talk about your Ireland for the Irish but you fail to recognise the legitimate right of people in this country who hold an Irish passport. You talk about facts and figures, quotes and internet links. It all means nothing if you dont have freedom. Freedom from oppression, Freedom from discrimination as a minority. FREEDOM....the God given right of any man, woman and child. I started this thread to see if the Polish people had an interest in the re-unification of Ireland. Instead you turn it into a thread to openly undo everything that Sinn Fein have done in the last 100 years to further that aspiration.