Polish Spitfire shoots down BNP

ukpolska:

Can I ask what significant and constructive contribution you have made personally to living in the UK?
Because to seem to belong to club of expect, in other words, because you live in a country of origin you expect everything without any input e.g. tax, national tax insurance contributions.
As to Latvian, Chinese and Ukrainian workers coming to Poland, so what.... these people come and work on the fields as they have been doing so for many years, and without them farmers wouldn't be able in some cases to harvest their crops
Here say my friend is not fact, if you want to know about a country come and live here and understand the country and don't live your life on crass stereotypes.

Harry:

There's no need for you to go on: I'll call ******** on what you're saying right now. Latvia is part of the EU, so any Latvian who wanted to work outside Latvia would go to the UK and work there where wages are higher. I find it impossible to believe that two Poles didn't know that Latvia is in the EU. Chinese people need this thing called a work permit to work in Poland and thoes are only given for specific jobs at specific employers where it can be shown that no Pole can do the job (I know a lot about work permits in Poland because I had to get several). Ukrainians also need work permits (unless they work in specific sectors and work in Poland for no more than six months in any one year). While it is impossible to believe that Poles know nothing about their homeland, it is very plausible that you know nothing about it and that is why you think you can get away with lying about it.

niejestemcapitaThreads: 3 Posts: 666 Joined: Jan 3, 09	May 27, 09, 01:29 / #
IronsE11: Child Benefit for 2 children is £143.87 p/m. damn I should check my bank statements better! I stand corrected...:} IronsE11: A claimant with similar circumstances living in Westminster would possibly be entitled to over double that amount! Great!!! I'm moving to St Johns WOod at once..:}

BritishEmpireThreads: - Posts: 195 Joined: Apr 26, 09	Edited by: BritishEmpire May 27, 09, 02:26 / #
Harry: You're very young aren't you. Some of us can remember when there were far fewer migrant workers, back then the gap between working and sitting on arse all day collecting benefits was the same as it is now. Not that young really (27) but thats makes my opinion much more in touch with the modern working man and yours to be some what old fashioned. Go back to the 70s and you would find people leaving school and claiming benefits rather than getting a job, now people are less unionised, work for private firms and not state owned companies and are more work driven in there life than back then. I dont want to live on state hand outs if i can do it myself but iam fugged if i would work for peanuts when i would be better of claiming benefits. I tell you what, i have a short but interesting story. There are some polish people where i work and one of them was telling me the other day that he understands why british people feel strongly about immigration because the same thing was happening now in poland, just after he finished one of then butted in and started complaining about the latvians, chinese and ukrainian workers coming to poland that are now willing to work for less money that he will. Need i really go on?.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	May 27, 09, 11:13 / #
BritishEmpire: BritishEmpire Can I ask what significant and constructive contribution you have made personally to living in the UK? Because to seem to belong to club of expect, in other words, because you live in a country of origin you expect everything without any input e.g. tax, national tax insurance contributions. As to Latvian, Chinese and Ukrainian workers coming to Poland, so what.... these people come and work on the fields as they have been doing so for many years, and without them farmers wouldn't be able in some cases to harvest their crops Here say my friend is not fact, if you want to know about a country come and live here and understand the country and don't live your life on crass stereotypes.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	May 27, 09, 11:32 / #
BritishEmpire: There are some polish people where i work and one of them was telling me the other day that he understands why british people feel strongly about immigration because the same thing was happening now in poland, just after he finished one of then butted in and started complaining about the latvians, chinese and ukrainian workers coming to poland that are now willing to work for less money that he will. Need i really go on?. There's no need for you to go on: I'll call ******** on what you're saying right now. Latvia is part of the EU, so any Latvian who wanted to work outside Latvia would go to the UK and work there where wages are higher. I find it impossible to believe that two Poles didn't know that Latvia is in the EU. Chinese people need this thing called a work permit to work in Poland and thoes are only given for specific jobs at specific employers where it can be shown that no Pole can do the job (I know a lot about work permits in Poland because I had to get several). Ukrainians also need work permits (unless they work in specific sectors and work in Poland for no more than six months in any one year). While it is impossible to believe that Poles know nothing about their homeland, it is very plausible that you know nothing about it and that is why you think you can get away with lying about it.

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	May 27, 09, 12:23 / #
BritishEmpire: Go back to the 70s and you would find people leaving school and claiming benefits rather than getting a job, If you look at how industry changed in the late 70s early 80s you might understand why unemployment was high! BritishEmpire: I dont want to live on state hand outs if i can do it myself but iam fugged if i would work for peanuts when i would be better of claiming benefits. Yeah, fcuk that thing called self-respect, lets spong off the state! BritishEmpire: There are some polish people where i work and one of them was telling me the other day that he understands why british people feel strongly about immigration because the same thing was happening now in poland, That's too funny!

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Edited by: Mister H May 28, 09, 00:15 / #
ShelleyS: I have a friend who simply works to pay her bills (she earns more than minimum but gets no tax credits, she's on the threshold), but she would rather be working and have a bit of dignity! It's about attitude really. That's pretty much what it all comes down to at the end of the day, however, the system should not make it so easy to claim all these benefits. I read an article written by someone famous that had to claim some JSA during a real low point in her career and on spotting her familiar face in the dole office, someone said: "Claiming benefits is for those that are either fresh off the boat or long-term alcoholics and not for the likes of you" Having seen the sorts of people that lurch in and out one of my local Job Centres, where it's all either Glaswegians clutching bottles of "White Lightning" with their dogs with strings for leads, all hurling abuse at one another while blind drunk at lunchtime or it's foreigners that don't speak English, but have 3 or 4 kids in tow, I think that just about sums it up. Personally, I'd fire-bomb the place during whatever the 'peak-time' is for signing-on. Anyway, I'm no economist, but surely the 'pot' all this money is coming from must be all but empty by now ? What with all the bank bail-outs and higher unemployment (therefore more benefits payments but less NI and tax revenue to pay for them) we must be heading for a time when the criteria to claim benefits will have to be tightened, simply because there isn't enough money to pay them out ? Something has gone drastically wrong with our welfare system.

Cardno85Threads: 33 Posts: 858 Joined: Jul 11, 08 MEMBER	May 28, 09, 00:27 / #
Mister H: Something has gone drastically wrong with our welfare system. Yes, the people who genuinely deserve it (as a temporary measure) struggle to claim and get anything more than the basic 46 pound a week. But people who just don't want to work...get loads.

niejestemcapitaThreads: 3 Posts: 666 Joined: Jan 3, 09	Edited by: niejestemcapita May 28, 09, 00:46 / #
Mister H: my local Job Centres, where it's all either Glaswegians clutching bottles of "White Lightning" In Hove darling, are u sure? Did you spend some time there signing on then?...:)

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Edited by: Mister H May 28, 09, 00:52 / #
Cardno85: Yes, the people who genuinely deserve it (as a temporary measure) struggle to claim and get anything more than the basic 46 pound a week. But people who just don't want to work...get loads. I agree and it must seem very unfair to be on the receiving end when you just want a bit of help rather than endless hand-outs. Part of the problem is that being on benefits as some kind of lifestyle choice isn't seen as anything to be ashamed of these days. There's nothing scandalous about a teenage mum having two or three kids from different random blokes, never getting a job and raising them on benefits in a council house. Nobody seems to raise eyebrows to anything anymore and it's all so "normal". Although I'm a hopeless leftie at heart, I can't help but think that we need a heartless, right-wing bunch of nasties in power to really shake the benefits system up. niejestemcapita: In Hove darling, are u sure? Did you spend some time there signing on then?...:) Hehehe ! I've not had to sign on for many a long year, I'm glad to say and I was talking about the Brighton Job Centre in Edward Street, next to the American Express building. I had to step over the poor unfortunates congregating on the steps of the Job Centre on my way into work (to work for Amex, not the Jobcentre!)

niejestemcapitaThreads: 3 Posts: 666 Joined: Jan 3, 09	Edited by: niejestemcapita May 28, 09, 00:56 / #
Mister H: Personally, I'd fire-bomb the place during whatever the 'peak-time' is for signing-on. Mister H: Although I'm a hopeless leftie at heart hmmmmmm....New Labour has nothing on you...:} Hmm yeh Brighton is full of dross youre right I'm afraid.......( I live there too..well, Hove actually)

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	May 29, 09, 13:43 / #
BritishEmpire: Dont try and put words in my mouth, i mentioned nothing about expecting anything but you go ahead and jump the gun just because i touched a nerve. Touched no nerve with me my friend. lol I don't need to put words in your month as you seem capable of producing them yourself :) BritishEmpire: I have and continue to contribute more to my nation in tax e.t.c than 99.9% of the individual polish workforce that has moved here in the last 5 years so i would like to turn that question around and ask you what you have done for my country. Hmmm, nice quote on 'my country'. Apart from being British and born in Pevensey East Sussex, I have a company in the UK which employs twelve people, nothing major admittedly, but I think it far outweighs anything that you could even dream of. I worked for Lloyds of London for 13 years paying significant amounts of contributions and I think I have right to be miffed at your sort who just expect everything on a plate just because they live in the country. ShelleyS: The benefits system is wrong, I just watched a prog about benefit cheats - a whole Italian family have cheated the system out thousand whilst most of them were living in bloody sicily! One claiming for a dead relative...amazing thing is when they stopped their benefits they all rang up complaining - they were told to come to a certain police station and to the amazment of the benefits fraud people they had a damn cheek to hop on a flight and actually turn up at the police station demanding their benefits be reinstated. I saw that last night as well ShelleyS, but we have to be careful and remind ourselves that this is TV and reporting one instance of benefit fraud doesn't classify all immigrants as cheats. But unfortunately it does is some eyes, but not in Shelley's as I have seen her comments over a couple of years on these forums and they are levelled and valid. However, when we see people come on here with names like BritishEmpire, nonimmigration, and do you remember 'UK' a sad little Asian immigrant who hated Poles, it doesn't take long to work out what their motives are!!! Just look at the subjects that they post on in their profile..........., I seriously pity these people who are stuck with their stereotypes which cloud them from wonderful experiences in life in meeting different cultures. I speak four languages and their is a proverb which says, “The number of languages you speak is the number of times you are human”, this is so right sometimes as your world becomes smaller with many friends.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	May 29, 09, 21:43 / #
That's a Slovakian proverb. Nice idea, I sometimes feel like a different person speaking a different language. It'd be strange to hear myself speaking Japanese now but it was normal before.

BritishEmpireThreads: - Posts: 195 Joined: Apr 26, 09	May 30, 09, 01:19 / #
ukpolska: However, when we see people come on here with names like BritishEmpire, nonimmigration, and do you remember 'UK' a sad little Asian immigrant who hated Poles, it doesn't take long to work out what their motives are As your only wish is to provide a bias, unrealistic opinion on the subject while your friends remove my honest and harmless post then i shall leave you with one very interesting website to mull over. And before you go and discredit it or try and convince others on here its bias or racist i would like to point out the fact that it is used by the UK government as an independent source on immigration, http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/briefingPaper/document/32 this particular page would be the best place for you to start polskauk. Lets see if the facts make any difference to the way you think or if your opinions remain the same.

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	May 31, 09, 13:50 / #
Seanus: I don't think he meant it that way, Mister H. He just wanted to say that language broadens the mind, he didn't single out any nation as being inept for not speaking more than one language. Ok, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I still think though that his "lumping in" of people like British Empire in with the likes of noimmigration seems rather unfair. Noimmigration was just a badly informed, poorly educated w@nk stain that hated everybody. Although he did have occasional flashes of rational thinking that made him almost credible, it never lasted very long and he is, quite rightly, banned. From what I've read of British Empire, he may have strong views, but he doesn't seem to be another noimmigration.

Cardno85Threads: 33 Posts: 858 Joined: Jul 11, 08 MEMBER	May 28, 09, 01:01 / #
Mister H: I agree and it must seem very unfair to be on the receiving end when you just want a bit of help rather than endless hand-outs. I have met many a person who have had no other option and they eventually got nothing because they luckily found a minimum wage job before claiming date. But they were entitled to next to nothing (as I say I think it is 46 quid a week). But I also have met other people who are in the pub (and I didn't work in a cheap pub) talking about sky TV programmes the night before and they haven't had a job since leaving school... ...it is obvious the welfare system is not (to quote Ali G) "Well Fair"

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Edited by: Mister H May 28, 09, 01:06 / #
niejestemcapita: hmmmmmm....New Labour has nothing on you...:} Ten plus years of "New Labour" has really taken its toll on me I can tell you. I don't like to see people in a bad way and struggling, not at all, but people have to be helped to help themselves and eventually (ideally) support themselves. I know it won't always be possible, but what we seem to have now is a society where people don't have to take responsibility for their own lives. Instead they can just drift through life, having relationships and children along the way and everything will be ok, because the country will sort them out. I know it's not everyone and I know many are in situations they didn't plan or intend, but I just feel very weary of it all. niejestemcapita: Hmm yeh Brighton is full of dross youre right I'm afraid.......( I live there too..well, Hove actually) I'm in Hove too, near the station......factually !

niejestemcapitaThreads: 3 Posts: 666 Joined: Jan 3, 09	May 28, 09, 01:09 / #
Mister H: but I just feel very weary of it all yeh I know ....its cos of where you live. That's the flip side of lefty "B-right-on" party town..

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	May 28, 09, 01:19 / #
Cardno85: I have met many a person who have had no other option and they eventually got nothing because they luckily found a minimum wage job before claiming date. But they were entitled to next to nothing (as I say I think it is 46 quid a week). But I also have met other people who are in the pub (and I didn't work in a cheap pub) talking about sky TV programmes the night before and they haven't had a job since leaving school... ...it is obvious the welfare system is not (to quote Ali G) "Well Fair" As ShelleyS pointed out before, it all comes down to that basic sense of pride and dignity and whether or not a person wants to support themselves. I've had some pretty ropey jobs in the past and I would rather do that then claim the dole. I've always thought that you can get a better job much more easily when you already have one and don't have lots of gaps on your CV. Having said that, plenty of people blag their way into jobs and always seem to come up smelling of roses. niejestemcapita: yeh I know ....its cos of where you live. That's the flip side of lefty "B-right-on" party town.. I've never quite seen the appeal myself. People always rave about Brighton, but I think it's very overrated. It's all trendy loft apartments, Starbucks and themed gastro-pubs, all trying to cover up the homelessness and the drugs.

niejestemcapitaThreads: 3 Posts: 666 Joined: Jan 3, 09	Edited by: niejestemcapita May 28, 09, 01:21 / #
Mister H: but I think it's very overrated. It's all trendy loft apartments, Starbucks and themed gastro-pubs, all trying to cover up the homelessness and the drugs. agree.....and worse too.....:( However theres a bit more to it than "a sense of pride and dignity" ...I used to buy into that, but after nine years of dealing with... abusive child minders who are no better than modern day baby farmers, psycho au pairs, profit making "playschemes" who don't give a toss about children and have pound signs ringingup in their eyes, a Child Support Agency with NO TEETH, (etc etc need I go on....there is alot more...) I decided to chill for a couple of years and take welfare while my kids still need me.....and I really dont like being put down for this by smug young workers who probably have no grasp at all of what people are up against.(phew!)

BritishEmpireThreads: - Posts: 195 Joined: Apr 26, 09	Edited by: BritishEmpire May 28, 09, 03:05 / #
ukpolska: Can I ask what significant and constructive contribution you have made personally to living in the UK? Because to seem to belong to club of expect, in other words, because you live in a country of origin you expect everything without any input e.g. tax, national tax insurance contributions. As to Latvian, Chinese and Ukrainian workers coming to Poland, so what.... these people come and work on the fields as they have been doing so for many years, and without them farmers wouldn't be able in some cases to harvest their crops Here say my friend is not fact, if you want to know about a country come and live here and understand the country and don't live your life on crass stereotypes. Dont try and put words in my mouth, i mentioned nothing about expecting anything but you go ahead and jump the gun just because i touched a nerve. I have and continue to contribute more to my nation in tax e.t.c than 99.9% of the individual polish workforce that has moved here in the last 5 years so i would like to turn that question around and ask you what you have done for my country. Even so charity starts at home so i would much rather my taxes went to someone who is of british origin than someone who is not. As for the very interesting comments made to me they are not hear say they are first hand which is what i stated, this was the most recent instance that has been presented to me but is not the only instance. Harry: There's no need for you to go on: I'll call ******** on what you're saying right now. Latvia is part of the EU, so any Latvian who wanted to work outside Latvia would go to the UK and work there where wages are higher. I find it impossible to believe that two Poles didn't know that Latvia is in the EU. Chinese people need this thing called a work permit to work in Poland and thoes are only given for specific jobs at specific employers where it can be shown that no Pole can do the job (I know a lot about work permits in Poland because I had to get several). Ukrainians also need work permits (unless they work in specific sectors and work in Poland for no more than six months in any one year). While it is impossible to believe that Poles know nothing about their homeland, it is very plausible that you know nothing about it and that is why you think you can get away with lying about it. Of course they realise that latvia is part of the EU just like i realise poland is part of the EU but just because someone (government) tells you this is how its is doesnt mean that your happy with it or you accept it as being right. Thankyou for pointlessly pointing out the official employment law regarding chinese and ukrainian workers, water off a ducks back really because just like in the UK what is meant to happen and what does are two different things.

TrevekThreads: 33 Posts: 2,155 Joined: May 21, 08	May 28, 09, 10:59 / #
Harry: You're very young aren't you. Some of us can remember when there were far fewer migrant workers, back then the gap between working and sitting on arse all day collecting benefits was the same as it is now. True. I used to work in a factory in Telford and I was on a pretty decent hourly rate for my position. This was because the rest of the guys all came from Tamworth and had refused to work in Telford for Telford rates. Also, the reason so many foreign firms set up in Telford in the 1980's was because it was such a low wage area.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	May 28, 09, 21:26 / #
BritishEmpire: Go back to the 70s and you would find people leaving school and claiming benefits rather than getting a job, now people are less unionised, work for private firms and not state owned companies and are more work driven in there life than back then. Do a bit more research on the 70's. Early to mid 70's. Most pupils left school at age sixteen and found work. Mid to late 70's saw long periods of industrial action. Pupils made use of college or through no fault of their own... ended up claiming benefit

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	May 28, 09, 21:51 / #
Wroclaw: Mid to late 70's saw long periods of industrial action. Pupils made use of college or through no fault of their own... ended up claiming benefit ShelleyS: If you look at how industry changed in the late 70s early 80s you might understand why unemployment was high! It's amazing how little people know about the economic situations this country has gone through! How deindustrialisation has ruined a once proserous country! The benefits system is wrong, I just watched a prog about benefit cheats - a whole Italian family have cheated the system out thousand whilst most of them were living in bloody sicily! One claiming for a dead relative...amazing thing is when they stopped their benefits they all rang up complaining - they were told to come to a certain police station and to the amazment of the benefits fraud people they had a damn cheek to hop on a flight and actually turn up at the police station demanding their benefits be reinstated...It just shows you how stupid and easy we are percieved as to the outside world! One good thing was 2 of them got months..the others got away with a slapped hand caution!

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	May 29, 09, 01:04 / #
ShelleyS: The benefits system is wrong, I just watched a prog about benefit cheats - a whole Italian family have cheated the system out thousand whilst most of them were living in bloody sicily! One claiming for a dead relative...amazing thing is when they stopped their benefits they all rang up complaining - they were told to come to a certain police station and to the amazment of the benefits fraud people they had a damn cheek to hop on a flight and actually turn up at the police station demanding their benefits be reinstated...It just shows you how stupid and easy we are percieved as to the outside world! One good thing was 2 of them got months..the others got away with a slapped hand caution! I tend to avoid TV programmes like that as they make me too annoyed. It doesn't surprise me that people claim for dead relatives and people in other countries. Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to stuff like that. What these programmes uncover is just the tip of the iceberg.

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	May 29, 09, 21:38 / #
ukpolska: I speak four languages and their is a proverb which says, “The number of languages you speak is the number of times you are human”, this is so right sometimes as your world becomes smaller with many friends. What are you trying to imply about those that only speak English ?

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	May 29, 09, 21:43 / #
ukpolska: “The number of languages you speak is the number of times you are human” It's similar to what my first English teacher told me when I was a boy: "You live as many times as many languages you know."

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER	May 30, 09, 14:30 / #
What a load of rubbish that is, "independent source on immigration" how farcical lol I love it when people emphasis their post by saying the word 'facts' as if we should all bow down and agree lol If you believe this then fine, I am not going to change your mind am I!!! But I will tell you something, I am a lot more comfortable with my life in accepting people as they are and not looking for problems and going to a foreign forum and moaning about it......, that's just weird lol

BritishEmpireThreads: - Posts: 195 Joined: Apr 26, 09	May 31, 09, 00:38 / #
How i knew you would play it down. I choose to not just to believe it but accept it because there is no other choice, facts are facts and only a fool would bury their head in the sand and choose to ignore them. I know what your thinking ukpolska and i can assure you your way off the mark, i have some very good polish friends where i work, my wife is 1/2 german and i fully realise that immigrant workers are part of a healthy economy which is something i have NO issues with at all but i do know along with 99% of people that immigration has to be controlled. Iam not looking for trouble, look back and you will see iam just responding to what has already been written.

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	May 31, 09, 12:54 / #
Seanus: That's a Slovakian proverb. Thanks for the explanation, but it still seems to have been used as an insult and ukpolska doesn't seem to want to comment either way. It sounds more like intellectual snobbery. ukpolska: If you believe this then fine, I am not going to change your mind am I!!! But I will tell you something, I am a lot more comfortable with my life in accepting people as they are and not looking for problems and going to a foreign forum and moaning about it......, that's just weird lol I always find it interesting how some react when people want to have an informed discussion on immigration, rather than the usual mud slinging. I get the impression that ukpolska prefers mud slinging and doesn't really know how to react when someone that isn't "just another bigot" wants to challenge their views. It's like Caroline Flint (Government European Jobsworth) on "Question Time" the other evening. Someone mentions immigration and the importance of speaking fluent English and she cries "racist!" and everyone beats a hasty retreat. Once again the chance to have a proper debate on a very important subject is lost because someone in the Government is having their policies questioned and they don't like it. BritishEmpire: I know what your thinking ukpolska and i can assure you your way off the mark, I think you're right and he probably thinks the same of me too. He's way off the mark their also.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	May 31, 09, 13:02 / #
I don't think he meant it that way, Mister H. He just wanted to say that language broadens the mind, he didn't single out any nation as being inept for not speaking more than one language.