Polish students are rising to the top of the class

incubus:

not sure if it can be counted as positive as it will only **** off the british more.

There is just one thing that differs us from the "typical" British - the will to succeed. For us failure is not an option, so we value discipline and hard work.
And after so many years of oppression, we are proving what we're worth. Not only builders and plumbers, but bankers, doctors and programmers (like me).
Good work, girls. I'm proud of you.

Daniel, London & Katowice,

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Moderator Apr 27, 08, 02:20 / #
I have decided to post something positive about Poles in UK : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/education/article3510811.ece Education experts say that their achievements are a warning to British teenagers that the work ethic of clever Polish children, coupled with rigorous science and maths teaching at an early age, could see newcomers beating “complacent” British teenagers to the best university places and jobs. “They have a hunger for success. and know from their background just how important a good education is for fulfilling yourself and having the best opportunities,” says Alan Smithers, director of Buckingham University’s Centre for Education Research. Education experts say that their achievements are a warning to British teenagers that the work ethic of clever Polish children, coupled with rigorous science and maths teaching at an early age, could see newcomers beating “complacent” British teenagers to the best university places and jobs. “Before I came here, I heard loads of things. The girls are so posh, from rich, good families. The truth is they are so nice and down-to-earth.” I don't agree with all statemnets there ... all in all article is positive.

incubusThreads: 1 Posts: 150 Joined: Apr 9, 08	Apr 27, 08, 02:46 / #
Lukasz: Education experts say that their achievements are a warning to British teenagers that the work ethic of clever Polish children, coupled with rigorous science and maths teaching at an early age, could see newcomers beating “complacent” British teenagers to the best university places and jobs not sure if it can be counted as positive as it will only **** off the british more.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Apr 27, 08, 02:52 / #
incubus: not sure if it can be counted as positive as it will only **** off the british more. I feel that we have false picture of Polish emigration in UK ... and I wanted to bring something new. I love comments of young Poles under this article :) my blood :) There is just one thing that differs us from the "typical" British - the will to succeed. For us failure is not an option, so we value discipline and hard work. And after so many years of oppression, we are proving what we're worth. Not only builders and plumbers, but bankers, doctors and programmers (like me). Good work, girls. I'm proud of you. Daniel, London & Katowice,

finTThreads: 15 Posts: 184 Joined: Oct 25, 07	Apr 27, 08, 03:37 / #
It's quite interesting and congrats to their intelligence ( I really believe that they are better educated than British kids but in the ongoing education crisis in the UK that probably isn't too difficult to achieve!) but I do think it's a little unpleasant and in a way another example of perceiving Poles as a nation of people who will 'sell their own mother' to get success. Is that really to be seen as an admirable trait? I personally find comments like "for us failure is not an option, so we value discipline and hard work" somewhat arrogant rather than something to celebrate. Unless of course you adhere to the 1980's world of Gordon Gekko in 'Wall Street'.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Apr 27, 08, 04:10 / #
you know on this forum we have seen so many posts about lazy Poles unable to speak english ... and I wanted to show something new here ... finT: "for us failure is not an option, so we value discipline and hard work" it is good motivated young student who knows what he wants ... I am sure he is going achieve what he wants. Wthout determination of Polish people we would never be free ... The fact that somebody is hard working and disciplined doesn't mean that he would sell his family.

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Edited by: lesser Apr 27, 08, 04:13 / #
This is not a secret that during communist period the level of education in Polish schools was higher. All in all we are going down and soon we will reach the EU level (fact which for sure would make happy the champions of EUropeiness in this country).

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07	Apr 27, 08, 04:24 / #
Polish IQ guarantees their future high rates of admissions in top schools unless laws are made against it deliberately(hard to achive in times of EU). The Germans were lucky that turkish immigrants had such a low IQ(90) that they have remained still largely out of higher education.Of course Germans turn a blind eye to that not considering giving extra positions in universities in minorities. In UK the Poles do not need extra positions aimed for them.They will take the current positions because they are more competitive.And if the English will be reluctant to leave them,the usual victims will be again the Asians.

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Apr 27, 08, 04:35 / #
southern: Polish IQ guarantees their future high rates of admissions in top schools unless laws are made against it deliberately(hard to achive in times of EU). I disagree, the worst discrimination is often pushed under so called "anti-discrimination laws".

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07	Apr 27, 08, 04:39 / #
lesser: "anti-discrimination laws". Anti-discrimination against who?Here the victims will be english students.Can you imagine a country making laws against discrimination of its own citizens?

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Apr 27, 08, 04:44 / #
Like blacks can have easier access to American universities, replace "blacks" with any other group, poor people, women, homosexuals, peasants, British etc.

LondonChickThreads: 43 Posts: 1,261 Joined: Nov 19, 07	Apr 27, 08, 04:50 / #
Interesting article, though I am not sure why you are using this to justify that massive chip that you have on your shoulder, Lukasz :) A couple of highly talented Polish pupils have been given an amazing opportunity. Good on them!! Getting straight As in an environment like Cheltenham College is however no indication of success in real life.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Apr 27, 08, 04:58 / #
LondonChick: Interesting article, though I am not sure why you are using this to justify that massive chip that you have on your shoulder, Lukasz :) honestly I don't have I just love to argue :) at least now we have freedom of speach. LondonChick: A couple of highly talented Polish pupils have been given an amazing opportunity. Good on them!! I would say that it is good for UK, competition brings progress ... it is good strategy and honestly we want to copy it ;) http://www.polishforums.com/more_more_foreign_students_poland-4_22435_ 0.html LondonChick: Getting straight As in an environment like Cheltenham College is however no indication of success in real life. I think that most of this so strongly motivated people will achieve what they want, we have some univ. in Poland where we create that kind of people and we see that it is very good investemnt (they are successful).

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Edited by: lesser Apr 27, 08, 05:04 / #
southern: The key word is american.In Europe there is no such affirmative policy and if sb wants to start it,it will be ridiculous to protect native inhabitants of the country against minorities because it is against the scope of affirmative policy. I would not be surprised at all if someday they would establish such laws. Anti-discrimination laws are on rise in Europe and this is dangerous tendency. Interesting example of protection of "Europeans" is economic protectionism. Officially it is not against anybody but to help our own people. In this case minorities are not targeted but people in other countries obviously are. European Community use this even inside its own borders. For example Poland cannot export more milk than bureaucrats from Brussels allow, job market of many member states is still denied to Polish citizens, Polish peasants receive smaller donation than those from the west.

LondonChickThreads: 43 Posts: 1,261 Joined: Nov 19, 07	Apr 27, 08, 05:11 / #
Lukasz: I think that most of this so strongly motivated people will achieve what they want, we have some univ. in Poland where we create that kind of people and we see that it is very good investemnt (they are successful). It is no guarantee - the Alpha females at my school (you know the type - straight As, prefects, prefects, leads in the school orchestra, hockey and netball captains etc) didn't go on to be particularly successful in adult life.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07	Apr 27, 08, 04:48 / #
lesser: Like blacks can have easier access to American universities The key word is american.In Europe there is no such affirmative policy and if sb wants to start it,it will be ridiculous to protect native inhabitants of the country against minorities because it is against the scope of affirmative policy.So they will find another name,I cannot imagine sth right now.Anyway you are lucky,they have not yet waken up.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Apr 27, 08, 05:27 / #
LondonChick: It is no guarantee - the Alpha females at my school (you know the type - straight As, prefects, prefects, leads in the school orchestra, hockey and netball captains etc) didn't go on to be particularly successful in adult life. one of the most famous places where that kind of people are created in Poland is : http://www.sgh.waw.pl/en/ogolne-en/ Polish people translate it in way "Szczury gonią hajs". What means "Rats chase after money" there are two different questions: 1) If we like them 2) If we need them ;) (students form other economics schools in Poland would have the same answer for two questions ;) ) I feel that there are two different answers ... I know that a lot of people feel satisfaction when puffed up person is unsuccessful ;) and some of them have problems after studies ... Most od them are successful (we talk about career) ... as to SGH (link I have posted) they are very good in what they do ... The main rating have been accompanied by 10 part-ratings, each of them including 10 schools being the best in a separate category. Warsaw School of Economics has been classified in three of them: Best of Economics - 3rd position (just behind London School of Economics and Mannheim Business School, Best in finance - 5th position, Top salaries in finance - 7th position. generaly hard work is the most important thing ... I feel that Polish students of medicne, informatics and economics know what I mean. In Poland poles have education for free so there is no difference poor or rich ... everybody have chance.

MatyjaszThreads: 2 Posts: 1,786 Joined: Jul 20, 06	Apr 27, 08, 07:27 / #
lesser: This is not a secret that during communist period the level of education in Polish schools was higher. All in all we are going down and soon we will reach the EU level (fact which for sure would make happy the champions of EUropeiness in this country). Yeah, my friend worked for some time as a teacher in high school and gimnazjum here in Poland and said to me that the level of education was definitely higher in "our times". Maybe it's just an international phenomenon?

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Apr 27, 08, 07:59 / #
Matyjasz: Maybe it's just an international phenomenon? Yes,exactly because teachers and proffessors are now pressed by middle class to lower expectations of academic performance,to substantially lower criteria for admission process to university etc and most of them comply in order to keep their jobs.There is a general culture of anti-intellectualism.

MatyjaszThreads: 2 Posts: 1,786 Joined: Jul 20, 06	Apr 27, 08, 08:25 / #
southern: Yes,exactly because teachers and proffessors are now pressed by middle class to lower expectations of academic performance,to substantially lower criteria for admission process to university etc and most of them comply in order to keep their jobs.There is a general culture of anti-intellectualism. After watching polish Big Brother the other day, I'm afraid you are right.

finTThreads: 15 Posts: 184 Joined: Oct 25, 07	Apr 27, 08, 10:44 / #
lesser: This is not a secret that during communist period the level of education in Polish schools was higher. All in all we are going down and soon we will reach the EU level (fact which for sure would make happy the champions of EUropeiness in this country). The irony of all this is that, as 'Lesser' (I like the name!) hints at, the excellence of the Polish education system IS rooted in the communist era and IS now starting to see a decline (like all over Europe). I just have to board our local bus at the end of the school day to despair at the future of the Polish education system! I suggest everyone watches "Idiocracy" to see what the future holds for humanity!

MrGThreads: 3 Posts: 16 Joined: Apr 30, 08	Edited by: MrG Apr 30, 08, 12:25 / #
My girl is the top of our group of 250 at college...so proud of her! above the rest of maybe 240 none polish people. matches the topic title.

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Edited by: lesser May 1, 08, 16:14 / #
finT: the excellence of the Polish education system IS rooted in the communist era and IS now starting to see a decline (like all over Europe). This is too much to say that the communist started this process. However they kept high level of education in many areas. This just sad that high level of math could coexist with retarded communist vision of economics. southern: Yes,exactly because teachers and proffessors are now pressed by middle class to lower expectations of academic performance,to substantially lower criteria for admission process to university etc and most of them comply in order to keep their jobs.There is a general culture of anti-intellectualism. I think that this is rather politicians try to appease to the people in this area. They don't care about public pressure if this would cost them much of effort.

El GatoThreads: 9 Posts: 459 Joined: Sep 21, 07	May 1, 08, 19:43 / #
southern: Anti-discrimination against who?Here the victims will be english students.Can you imagine a country making laws against discrimination of its own citizens? That's the whole point of the anti-discrimination laws. One group of people feels bad for another and tries to "make up" for it. Like the whites in America are somewhat doing for the blacks.

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Feb 1, 09, 09:42 / #
Well it is interesting as well.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Feb 1, 09, 09:45 / #
Many gimnazjum students are super bright, I have the utmost respect for them and their level. It doesn't surprise me that they are making such good progress. What goes wrong? ;)

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,544 Joined: Dec 29, 06	Feb 1, 09, 10:07 / #
University of the Highlands and Islands, student of the year 2008. Polish smart **se

MrBubblesThreads: 13 Posts: 768 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Feb 1, 09, 10:58 / #
Lukasz: the work ethic of clever Polish children, coupled with rigorous science and maths teaching at an early age, could see newcomers beating “complacent” British teenagers to the best university places and jobs. And this is were the Times pisses with the lid down, Lukasz. Where does a Science degree guarantee you a good job? Especially if you are conditioned into parrot fashion learning and regurgitating facts for an exam?

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,389 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Feb 1, 09, 14:08 / #
lesser: This is not a secret that during communist period the level of education in Polish schools was higher. All in all we are going down and soon we will reach the EU level (fact which for sure would make happy the champions of EUropeiness in this country). Hmm, I can`t fully agree with you. Higher standard of education in communist times is probably a myth. Why do we have such an impression today? In communism the ratio of students who chose high school (liceum) was about 30%. They were the elite, most of them went to universities afterwards. The rest 70% went to vocational or technical schools to acquire a job after 3 or 5 years learning. Today the proportions are reverse. About 60% students go to high schools with an aim of enrolling some uni studies afterwards. It is obvius that the level of education have had to go down if students who in the past used to go to vocational schools today attend high schools. Now the question arises - is it better to educate 20% elite in high schools and send the rest to vocational ones, or open the door wider so that all could join? As a teacher, I prefer 60%. What about you?

MrBubblesThreads: 13 Posts: 768 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Feb 1, 09, 14:25 / #
pawian: It is obvius that the level of education have had to go down if students who in the past used to go to vocational schools today attend high schools. Not necessarily. It just meant that the content of the lessons had to be reorganised towards more realistic educational outcomes.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Feb 1, 09, 14:29 / #
That's nonsense, lesser. Every generation becomes brighter as time passes. I don't think many Poles would agree with you. Pawian is right here and he has experienced both. Down to the EU level? You know, I don't buy into this idea that one country has such a higher level than another in Europe. I see Poland as having a high level of education but no higher than many parts of Scotland, Germany or Holland for example.