Debt of America is over $10 trillion...

China surpassed Japan last year as the largest foreign holder of Treasury bonds. Any indication that it intends to cease those purchases -- or, worse, stage a sell-off -- could drive up the cost of borrowing for the U.S. government, as well as send mortgage rates higher for millions of Americans.

A number of Chinese officials have expressed concern about the future of Beijing's holdings of U.S. debt. American officials have sought to ease those concerns, effectively acknowledging the importance of China's role as Washington's banker. Last month, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton urged the Chinese to keep buying U.S. bonds. Asked about the increasingly jittery reaction in China to the rising U.S. debt, White House economic adviser Lawrence H. Summers yesterday defended the expensive policies that are forcing the nation to borrow a record $2.5 trillion this year, by White House estimates.

"I think what they're trying to say right now is, 'Don't take any steps that would impair our ability to access your market,' " said Auggie Tantillo, executive director of the American Manufacturing Trade Action Coalition, an organization of U.S. businesses critical of China's trade policies. "The Chinese are starting to flex their muscles, they are becoming more powerful commercially and economically, and they want us to know it."

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Edited by: Grzegorz_ Oct 11, 08, 11:15 / #
The estimated population of the United States is 304,889,193 so each citizen's share of this debt is $33,692.19. http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

polishgirltx	Oct 11, 08, 11:25 / #
do they borrow money from china?

dcchrisThreads: 11 Posts: 687 Joined: Oct 29, 07	Oct 11, 08, 11:28 / #
from my understanding china buys the usa debt. as well there is a huge trade imbalance with cheap electronics going to the usa and cash going to china. but on the other hand I was told that 50% of the big chinese companies are owned by american business through chinese companies

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Oct 11, 08, 12:04 / #
dcchris: china buys the usa debt Yes... They buy government's bonds and also have the largest reserves of USD in the world... They could ruin America in one day... sad...

dcchrisThreads: 11 Posts: 687 Joined: Oct 29, 07	Oct 11, 08, 12:16 / #
from my understanding the downfall of the dollar began when china started discussing switching their main foreign currency holdings to euros

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Oct 11, 08, 12:25 / #
dcchris: from my understanding the downfall of the dollar began when china started discussing switching their main foreign currency holdings to euros no but the oil barons doing so did it for sure.

mafketisThreads: 15 Posts: 1,830 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Oct 11, 08, 12:29 / #
IINM the size of the US debt doesn't matter as long as the dollar is the reserve currency (sort of like a credit card with no limit that only ever requires the occasional minimal payment). If the euro becomes the main international reserve currency then bye bye US lifestyle (which would be especially brutal because of the way that US infrastructure is almost totally dependent on cheap gas and the idea that almost everyone has their own car). Expect armed conflict before the US gives of reserve currency status.

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon Jun 1, 09, 22:48 / #
China Worried About U.S. Debt http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/13/AR2009 031300703.html China surpassed Japan last year as the largest foreign holder of Treasury bonds. Any indication that it intends to cease those purchases -- or, worse, stage a sell-off -- could drive up the cost of borrowing for the U.S. government, as well as send mortgage rates higher for millions of Americans. A number of Chinese officials have expressed concern about the future of Beijing's holdings of U.S. debt. American officials have sought to ease those concerns, effectively acknowledging the importance of China's role as Washington's banker. Last month, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton urged the Chinese to keep buying U.S. bonds. Asked about the increasingly jittery reaction in China to the rising U.S. debt, White House economic adviser Lawrence H. Summers yesterday defended the expensive policies that are forcing the nation to borrow a record $2.5 trillion this year, by White House estimates. "I think what they're trying to say right now is, 'Don't take any steps that would impair our ability to access your market,' " said Auggie Tantillo, executive director of the American Manufacturing Trade Action Coalition, an organization of U.S. businesses critical of China's trade policies. "The Chinese are starting to flex their muscles, they are becoming more powerful commercially and economically, and they want us to know it." Well I think I know who is going to be stronger after crisise.

ZIMMYThreads: 10 Posts: 2,243 Joined: Feb 21, 09	Jun 1, 09, 23:12 / #
Grzegorz_: The estimated population of the United States is 304,889,193 so each citizen's share of this debt is $33,692.19. I'm sure that Obama with his bailout programs will pay for mine, and yours, and everyone else's. He'll just ask the Federal Reserve to give the U.S. Treasury as many trillions as is needed. Of course this paper money is not backed by anything so starting in 2, maybe 3 years the U.S. will go into high inflation. We'll all be happy paying $20 for a McDonald's hamburger.....right?

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,755 Joined: Jul 3, 08	Edited by: McCoy Jun 1, 09, 23:30 / #
is there anyone from Detroit? i saw the pictures from there and some areas look like a abandoned post-apocalyptic city. is Detroit really fvcked ? whats the future of the city?

fred_chopin	Jun 1, 09, 23:32 / #
McCoy: is Detroit really fvcked ? Apparently it went from a high of 2 or 2.5 million residents down to 800K. Hard to support a city when the tax base takes such a big hit with the loss of high waged jobs.

nunczkaThreads: 15 Posts: 572 Joined: Sep 13, 08	Jun 1, 09, 23:42 / #
fred_chopin: Hard to support a city when the tax base takes such a big hit with the loss of high waged jobs. Plus political graft, high crime rate, drugs, and white flight. This is true in most large American cities.

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09	Jun 1, 09, 23:43 / #
nunczka: Plus political graft, high crime rate, drugs, and white flight. This is true in most large American cities. You could hardly compare Detroit to most American cities.. you could however safely compare it to most Lebanese cities.

ZIMMYThreads: 10 Posts: 2,243 Joined: Feb 21, 09	Jun 1, 09, 23:45 / #
fred_chopin: Apparently it went from a high of 2 or 2.5 million residents down to 800K There is a reason people fled the city. High crime rates; just ask those few Poles who still live (survive?) in Hamtramck. Liberal politicians catered to minorities with various liberal programs (like Obamas') ruined a once great city. Schools, businesses, and infrastructures began to collapse. That's what happens when government runs cities, states and of course a country.

freebirdThreads: 3 Posts: 638 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Jun 1, 09, 23:47 / #
dcchris: on the other hand I was told that 50% of the big chinese companies are owned by american business through chinese companies yep and we buy 70% of their products so this is not a one way street. Chinese can't really hurt us without hurting themselves deadly. We'll find a way to get out of this mess but it will take a little while. Unfortunitely Mr.Obama bin Laden is not a great help there.

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,755 Joined: Jul 3, 08	Jun 1, 09, 23:49 / #
detroit ghetto tour: incredible photo: there is so much great but neglected industrial and classical architecture. it would be a shame to loose it.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,181 Joined: May 28, 09	Jun 1, 09, 23:49 / #
This topic is kinda old. By now I'm sure it's at least triple that amount.

freebirdThreads: 3 Posts: 638 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Jun 2, 09, 00:09 / #
PlasticPole: By now I'm sure it's at least triple that amount. actually, it's supposed to be $13 trillion

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 2, 09, 09:35 / #
What was the main contributory cause of this unprecedented figure? That's more debt than all the previous Presidents rolled together I think.