People who bought in Katowice Oak teraces phase I and phase II

jb1:

Hi Wroclaw Boy. We chatted way back when I was trying to rent out Czysta/Central apartments apartment I bought using PS.
Interested to see your last post and was wondering where you see prices at now. Just for interest where do you see a 1 bedroom ground floor retailing fairly now ?

SusanC:

Just to let you know that the fit out is in the region of 32k polish sloty (small one bed) ( about 7K pounds). Does anyone have a view on whether this is expensive?

MarkyThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 16, 08	Dec 3, 08, 08:02 / #
Hi , If anyone has bought in Oak teraces phase I or II in katowice could you please contact, king.jeffrey@gmail.com, who has also bought there .......with a view to working together on fit-out and renting and possibly some other cost savings at this difficult time. If anyone knows anything about the sale potential of this development please let me know also. Thanks

dan wThreads: 1 Posts: 3 Joined: Dec 4, 08	Dec 4, 08, 08:06 / #
hi marky dan w from the PS forum here. well done for finding this resource and letting us know about it. i have one, 2-bed unit in oak terraces II. not yet closed, but planning on doing so and renting it out. am using TGC lawyers. i've spoken to jeff king, and imagine he'll be making an appearance on this forum too. regards, dan

Guest	Dec 4, 08, 11:42 / #
Hi Marky/Dan, We made it here. I see PS took down my latest posts on their forum, a pity that... i suppose i did put up my email again... need to get STC over here so we can have a decent chat. anyway, this is my email king.jeffrey@gmail.com . Please email me if you have purchased a property in Oak Terraces Phase II or even Phase I for that matter.... looking forward to hearing from you. Jeff

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Dec 4, 08, 11:52 / #
I assume thi is about a housing development. Is it a bit of a dąb?

Wroclaw Boy	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Dec 4, 08, 12:10 / #
Guest: I see PS took down my latest posts on their forum Ahh good old property secrets still preventing clients posting email addresses and contact information which will stop their cash cow monopoly and ultimately cost clients hard earned cash even in this difficult time. My advice would be to contact local katowice nieruchomosci companies for independant advice. I can be of assistance with furnishings and fit outs and possibly rentals, feel free to PM for details. I have in the past dealt with PS clients within this sector at a fraction of the time and costs of Rednet etc..

MarkyThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 16, 08	Edited by: Marky Dec 4, 08, 13:34 / #
Welcome Dan,Jeff... Both myself and Jeff have started to work together a little to share some information. I have one ..one bed apartment in this development which I am currently not sure about due to personnel circumstances and have been looking to sell/reassign but it seems its not really possible at this time and may need to default on the 20%!!!. Big loss... Would be willing to do a major deal though. Would have liked to have kept it but this moment its does not seem possible. I think the idea of getting at least a few together to keep fit out cost down and share rental opportunities for those that can complete is useful. I also believe that there are people out there that would want some good deals also!!!!. Are there others looking at having to default on their deposits?? Macky

sb99Threads: - Posts: 2 Joined: Dec 4, 08	Dec 4, 08, 13:46 / #
Sorry for off topic but can I ask Wroclaw boy of decent letting agents other than rednet that can advise on lettings potential of new build apartments in North Wroclaw (Psie Pole) Thanks SB

Big DipperThreads: - Posts: 5 Joined: Dec 4, 08	Edited by: Big Dipper Dec 4, 08, 14:49 / #
Hi All, I see we are not the only ones which have been affected by PS !!! Will keep in touch in relation to extension of time and fit-outs. Remember email king.jeffrey@gmail.com for all Oak Terraces queries and maybe we can all help each other. Jeff

nierozumiemThreads: 13 Posts: 127 Joined: Jan 18, 08	Dec 4, 08, 15:31 / #
Direct quote from Property Secrets - "But there is still a very healthy margin to be made again at Phase Two of Oak Terraces as we estimate a 40% increase in capital growth before completion. And with a further 30% predicted the following year – Katowice is THE place to invest in Poland right now." Marky: I also believe that there are people out there that would want some good deals also!!!!. Well you bought at 5600/m2? Just throw that number into the PS winning formula, and you should be looking for about 10,000/m2 any day now. Marky: Are there others looking at having to default on their deposits?? Take a poke around Gratka or KRN for Dębowe Tarasy, you have some competition on your sale. Have you tried pushing back on the developer? Maybe there are some concessions to be made. They could be quite nervous at this point, I doubt that they are rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of keeping your 20% deposit. They will still be stuck with an apartment to offload in a market without buyers. PS were pushing a large number of properties at this site, there must be a more like you in the same situation. Band together. Some would say count yourself lucky on this. You haven't reached the point where you've dumped further cash in on the fit-out and are saddled with a mortgage for the remaining 80%. The net yields on these properties are abysmal, and you won't see any capital appreciation for years to come.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,309 Joined: Apr 21, 08	Dec 4, 08, 15:55 / #
property as a investment sucks at the moment.

hythornThreads: 6 Posts: 849 Joined: Feb 21, 08	Dec 6, 08, 02:19 / #
when reading a PS description on a property a few years back, it contained the following statement. ' why is this such a great deal? it is because the developer is doing us a favour' .... erm yeah ok all they have to do now is find a bunch of investors who still believe in Santa and they are laughing

Wroclaw Boy	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Dec 7, 08, 04:57 / #
Im not sure as to the power Rednet have over PS investors, i have undertaken work for PS clients we have had to work with the Rednet rep in Wroclaw. I assume clients sign a Power of Attorney with Rednet, Rednet have the power to block many transactions inline with their PoA thus making life even more difficult for the investor. eleanoroconner: I also never understood where PS get their 'under market' values from. PS have delieverd many great deals to investors at undermarket value, the valuations are carried out by independant surveyors then x amount of units are reserved for discounted sale by PS. The sting in the tail comes in the form of PS's commissions thus bringing the sales price to around level. On the plus side many deals pioneered by PS in Wroclaw had earned investors over 200% capital appreciation. These deals were mostly put together prior to late 2005. Central apartments or Czysta as known in Poland springs to mind.

LondonChickThreads: 43 Posts: 1,261 Joined: Nov 19, 07	Dec 8, 08, 11:59 / #
I cannot make any constructive comments to this thread, but I have to say that I am loving the inter-forum thing that's going on :) Perhaps we could do a cultural exchange, like the French exchange at school, but on foums... spend a week on pistonheads.com or hitched.co.uk for instance :)

KrakowiankaThreads: 2 Posts: 272 Joined: Oct 16, 08	Dec 8, 08, 12:04 / #
Wroclaw Boy: Ive arranged full fit outs from 500 PLN / m2. What exactly does the "fit out" include?

MarkyThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 16, 08	Dec 4, 08, 16:12 / #
Thanks Nierozumiem, Maybe Dan and Jeff are willing to share in Nierozumiems suggestion to extend contract closing date. Maybe you (Dan and Jeff) have some more ways of getting others in the same situation into this forum to share this. have posted the details on the PS website. Thanks

dan wThreads: 1 Posts: 3 Joined: Dec 4, 08	Dec 5, 08, 03:44 / #
marky/jeff perhaps we should have a chat by email? i'm on danielwhitaker@yahoo.com. regards, dan

eleanoroconnerThreads: 4 Posts: 58 Joined: Nov 8, 07	Dec 5, 08, 14:41 / #
I was wondering when the froth was going to explode on PS! Still you all sound like decent people who may have been taken for a bit of a ride. Oak Terraces was punted by PS, Ober-Haus and a whole bunch of other property companies, and punted to foreign buyers. Result - development full of shells to be flipped or, in a few months - flats to be rented. BUT I do believe Katowice is a great location and bought a 1970s place there which rents out very well and the local economy is developing well. Over the long term the capital gains will be excellent in my opinion - but no get rich quick stuff. Here is my advice: - I reckon there must be hundreds of units in foreign hands. Post on every forum you can find. The more of you there are, the bigger your bargaining power with the developer and fit out companies. - If you can hold on to the property and all will come right over a few years - Get lots of fit out quotes as a group - I had one flat in Warsaw and met three other buyers when I was reserving. We stayed in touch and when fit out time came we each got a discount off the Mamdom fit out fee. I started a thread on this but it hasn't come to much! Maybe you guys can add your thoughts after you have been through the mill: http://www.polishforums.com/find_shell_fit_out_services_poland-20_2899 9_0.html - If you have to sell consider getting a part fit out on the property if you can afford it. This is when you get the bathroom in, floor down and walls painted. It's money well spent to set your place apart from all the shells. Wroclaw Boy: I have in the past dealt with PS clients within this sector at a fraction of the time and costs of Rednet Agreed Wroclaw Boy - there are plenty of agents and fit out companies that do the same but cheaper. PS/RedNet/Keen Property have been doing well and fair cop to them because investors have been lazy. Went to the PS site today .... what a lot of very unhappy people. I also never understood where PS get their 'under market' values from. This said I suspect many of them were too lazy to do their own homework in the boom times and believed whatever PS fed to them. Should have come to this forum earlier!

MarkyThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 16, 08	Dec 6, 08, 06:35 / #
Its good to see there are some people that really wish to help and not just complain on this forum. I have got some good contacts through email and if more wish to share this I recommend they contact me on this email king.jeffrey@gmail.com. The credit crisis is tough on most people but there seems to be a way to minimise the burden through useful sharing. Thanks Mark

jb1Threads: - Posts: 4 Joined: Mar 8, 08	Dec 7, 08, 12:26 / #
Hi Wroclaw Boy. We chatted way back when I was trying to rent out Czysta/Central apartments apartment I bought using PS. Interested to see your last post and was wondering where you see prices at now. Just for interest where do you see a 1 bedroom ground floor retailing fairly now ? Hope all is well and good in cold snowy Poland.

SusanCThreads: - Posts: 4 Joined: Dec 7, 08	Dec 7, 08, 16:07 / #
Hi there Dan and all... This is STC. Sorry for the delays in getting up and running - I am currently in Germany with work and hope to plan a visit the site early Jan so hopefully I can also add my two penneth on how things are developing. I am still able to get a conference call up and running - I can do this for the weekend of 13th - maybe on the Sunday? Any one still interested?? though this forum seems to have already seen some good communication going.. Glad to hear from an independant investor that the Katowice development is a good investment... I was starting to feel somewhat duped by PS.

dan wThreads: 1 Posts: 3 Joined: Dec 4, 08	Dec 7, 08, 18:03 / #
hi STC sunday afternoon possible for me. let me know by email (see thread above) if easier. regards, dan

SusanCThreads: - Posts: 4 Joined: Dec 7, 08	Dec 8, 08, 11:38 / #
I am looking to back out of my rednet agreement for fit out on this development and have contacted Jeff just in case I can. Just to let you know that the fit out is in the region of 32k polish sloty (small one bed) ( about 7K pounds). Does anyone have a view on whether this is expensive?

Wroclaw Boy	Dec 8, 08, 12:01 / #
jb1: Hi Wroclaw Boy. We chatted way back when I was trying to rent out Czysta/Central apartments apartment I bought using PS. Interested to see your last post and was wondering where you see prices at now. Just for interest where do you see a 1 bedroom ground floor retailing fairly now ? Hi JB1, to be honest im a little out of touch with property prices in Wrcolaw at the moment. The last time i contacted Profit Development (four months ago) they were relatively stable and on par with early 2007 prices. SusanC: Just to let you know that the fit out is in the region of 32k polish sloty (small one bed) ( about 7K pounds). Does anyone have a view on whether this is expensive? Thats not too bad, the most ive heard of by Rednet comes in around 50k PLN, for a two bed although i can confirm it was a high class finish. Even if you managed to find an independant Pole to do the work he will charge around 200-300 PLN m2 labour only, add average standard finish materials and that will bring it up to approx 25,000 PLN. Ive arranged full fit outs from 500 PLN / m2.

SusanCThreads: - Posts: 4 Joined: Dec 7, 08	Edited by: SusanC Dec 8, 08, 12:12 / #
PS Thanks Wrocklaw boy- this is a useful comparison. I am happy to organise a call on this development for Sunday afternoon. Dan has confirmed - any more takers or would people rather do one2one's on the phone - do comms throught the blog? I am happy either way. Susan

MarkyThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 16, 08	Edited by: Marky Dec 8, 08, 12:22 / #
SusanC: Glad to hear from an independant investor that the Katowice development is a good investment... I was starting to feel somewhat duped by PS. I visited Oak terraces recently to view my apartment 38m2 corner with balcony.....This is a very well finished development in a very good location close to the city center and right beside a big shopping center (Silesia). Both inside and outside its well finished. Spacious area around apartments also and 24hr security. Walk to center in about 15 minutes or tram outside apartment building.. The apartments themselves were very surprisingly well finished inside. Long term I believe this is a good investment from what I've seen and whats happening around Katowice and whats planned. etc. We spoke to a guy in the sales office there. He said there were about 50 apartments remaining to be sold in phase II. 500 in total between I and II. The average price is about 6200 pln/m2 but sometimes 5900 for larger ones over 55m2. The smaller ones around 38m2 were most expensive or corner apartments with balcony going up to 6600pln/m2. (are they being sold?.. I dont know.) The third phase is on hold which means there is probably currently some concerns about demand. This however is only good as it keeps the price stable until demand increases. Rent seems to be able to cover investment..( interest only) but there seems to be no good information available for new builds there yet for rent. There will be a new office block built just across the road but the details are not finalised as to what companies will use it. If this goes ahead it would be a great benefit for company long term rental contracts. SPC : have you paid the 10% deposit for Rednet fitout or have you accepted the higher price offer?.

KrakowiankaThreads: 2 Posts: 272 Joined: Oct 16, 08	Dec 8, 08, 12:30 / #
Thanks Wroclawboy for the detailed listing :) Based on everything you've listed, the 32K pln that SusanC mentioned, doesnt seem that expensive. My mom purchased a new condo and had to do the finishings herself and came out at just that amount, and she did this about 5 years ago, when labor & materials were presumably cheaper. I wonder if these "fit out" companies offer the same finishings for homes in "surowy stan". Do they?

Big DipperThreads: - Posts: 5 Joined: Dec 4, 08	Dec 8, 08, 13:16 / #
Hi All, Wow things are moving now, just a quick message to let you know that i want to read everything before i comment... which i will soon.... STC, just to let you know a conference call is excellent, i know above you said you emailed me but i didnt get anything... maybe you can resend it... king.jeffrey@gmail.com Jeff

MarkyThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 16, 08	Edited by: Marky Dec 8, 08, 13:52 / #
I'm in for conference call too. I suppose all numbers to Jeff by email is best for those interested. Jeff can you initiate the call Also Wroclaw boy ..the apartments are provided with black finish...how would this imact the price estimated. Tks macky

datThreads: 2 Posts: 84 Joined: Oct 5, 08	Dec 8, 08, 21:33 / #
Wroclaw Boy: Wroclaw Boy What's the official term for "fit out" in Polish?