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property in Lodz - anyone any experience

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seanieThreads: 4 Posts: 24 Joined: Apr 12, 07	Apr 24, 07, 09:28 / #
Just read a few articles on Lodz, how prices have risen and there seems to be alot of multinational companies setting up there?? wondering if anyone had any experience in investing here...?? worth a look etc?? Thanks

daffyThreads: 40 Posts: 2,118 Joined: Feb 5, 07	Apr 24, 07, 09:39 / #
Quoting: seanie worth a look lol G, yes seanie, it is. but i recommend you take a fact finding mission and visit the area yourself.

seanieThreads: 4 Posts: 24 Joined: Apr 12, 07	Apr 24, 07, 10:00 / #
Thanks Daffy for the advice

kneehawk	May 10, 07, 04:01 / #
Hi Seanie, I have purchased 8 properties in lodz and am over the moon the city is a dump but changing helps that i speak the language if you have any specific questions fire away

seanieThreads: 4 Posts: 24 Joined: Apr 12, 07	May 10, 07, 07:30 / #
Hi Kneehawk, wow 8 properties, were these off plan or second hand properties, you obv see that lodz is worth the investment??

kneehawk	May 11, 07, 02:04 / #
Hi again, they are all offplan close to piotrowska which is the main central part will be buying more shortly growth already 20% this year with more to come

seanieThreads: 4 Posts: 24 Joined: Apr 12, 07	May 11, 07, 03:24 / #
hi kneehawk..are you resident in poland or fly over occassionally? do you find the buying process difficult? how do you find the properties is it with an agent or a local paper?

kneehawk	May 11, 07, 03:52 / #
Hi Seanie, i live in England but have done business in Poland for many years although i have only been into property for about 6 months .i only got into property because many of my English and Irish associates persuaded me to in order to take advantage of my contacts there so i am buying property for myself and on their behalf.the process is not difficult but you have to be very careful as there are a lot of wankers.you also must remember that with off plan you still have to finish the property off yourself which can be a nightmare .i find the developments myself and negotiate with the developer directly.my Polish comes in very handy!

seanieThreads: 4 Posts: 24 Joined: Apr 12, 07	May 15, 07, 09:35 / #
Hi Kneehawk, would you be able to assist/help if I were to purchase apartments in Poland, Unfortunately I don't speak the language.. are you active in Lodz? cheers, Seanie

kneehawk	May 16, 07, 05:54 / #
Hi Seanie, yes i could but i would have to charge you for it i would find you the right property direct from the developer i already have a team that could finish it they are based in lodz i can find you an interest only mortgage which are not common in Poland i can help you rent it out i know a very good solicitor in Poland who can help if required(he speaks good English) there is a great new development starting soon in lodz and the developer does not require stage payments the deposit will be either 10% or 20% with completion in about 2 years .you can also reasign if you wish capital appreciation will be fantastic!

seanieThreads: 4 Posts: 24 Joined: Apr 12, 07	May 16, 07, 06:21 / #
Hi kneehawk I would require assistance in sourcing properties and with mortages How often are you in Lodz, I could possible meet you there some time, Did you ever thik about purchasing land/site to to develope?

kneehawk	May 16, 07, 07:18 / #
Hi Seanie, i will not be going to Lodz until this new development is released i am however going to Ireland on Friday to see friends between Naas and Dublin i am considering purchasing land but i need to sort out a Polish passport first

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,104 Joined: Nov 16, 06	May 16, 07, 07:46 / #
Do you really have to steal our land ? The prices are already so high that there won't be any mega profits anymore. Similar or even bigger money you can make on the stock exchange market and that would be good for both sides.

LoneStrangerThreads: 3 Posts: 531 Joined: Jan 30, 07	May 16, 07, 07:49 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ The prices are already so high that there won't be any mega profits anymore. Similar or even bigger money you can make on the stock exchange market and that would be good for both sides. Listen to his words... it is very wise indeed. Why make a loss in Lodz? :S ...see... here maybe the price of property suddenly will go down!!! ... because its just too high already. I propose you either wait...or invest in other sectors. Good Luck.

PolanglikThreads: 40 Posts: 848 Joined: May 16, 07	May 16, 07, 18:32 / #
Hi Seanie, I think you're right in considering Lodz for property investment; I have been helping overseas investors, as well as Poles here in England buy property in Poland; up to now Warsaw, Krakow and Wroclaw have been the main cities of interest, but recently we have seen huge interest in Lodz, and also Poznan. I run a company which assists investors purchase property in Poland, so if you need any advice or help send me an email. There are a number of reason why Lodz is a good bet .... Lodz has an advantageous geographical position, being located in the centre of Poland, and being in close proximity to Warsaw (130km). Other Polish major cities like Wroclaw, Krakow, Poznan, Bydgoszcz, Katowice and Lublin are easily accessible. In the future, major free-ways will be crossing near Lodz i.e. the junction of the North-South A1 and East-West A2. The construction of motorways will not only improve communication links, but will have a direct effect of attracting investors. Already companies such as Gillette, Bosch-Siemens, Coca-Cola, Merloni and Dell Computers have built or are building factories in Lodz. The new factory being built by Dell will sell to the Polish market and export to countries in Central and Eastern Europe, thus becoming a regional production and distribution centre. Companies are attracted to Lodz because the city has a vast human potential; the city is a buoyant academic and scientific centre, meaning that prospective investors can find well educated professional in Lodz. Another reason why companies are attracted to Lodz is that the city authorities create favourable conditions for the operation of small and medium-sized businesses, which in turn create the force that drives the country’s economy. The average GDP in Lodz over the next three years is forecast at 6%, whilst the average for Poland is 4.8% Property market analysts predict that in 2007 the markets in Lodz will record the highest level of growth in property prices out of the whole country.

seanieThreads: 4 Posts: 24 Joined: Apr 12, 07	May 17, 07, 11:33 / #
Hi Kneehawk, hope you have a great time in ireland, weather not too good at the moment unfortunately but I'm sure you'll still enjoy the w/e I hope to fly to lodz in a few weeks so if you had propties or specific area for me to check out I would appreciate it, Many Thank Seanie

bennyboy	May 22, 07, 09:15 / #
hello knee hawk, ben here, hoping to buy off plan in lodz in next few months. Am interested in any projects you might be working with. Could you give me a rough guide to the sort of prices being quoted. have friends who bought recently and are happy. Also interested in 10 percent deposits and interest only mortgages. How difficult are these to access and do they just deflect from other hidden costs.

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,104 Joined: Nov 16, 06	May 22, 07, 09:17 / #
Quoting: bennyboy have friends who bought recently and are happy. I wonder If they will be still happy after a new 44% tax on property.

PolanglikThreads: 40 Posts: 848 Joined: May 16, 07	May 22, 07, 16:16 / #
Hi bennyboy ... i am waiting for the developer to give me a release date for the Lodz project. It should have been released in April, but it looks more likely to be sometime in June. the developer that i am dealing with said that for this project it would be 20% initial payment and the rest on completion. you can sell the contract before completion, unlike some other developers which do not. The only downside i find is that the 80% is index linked, so you may pay a bit extra depending on indexation. It is worked out on a monthly basis and the figure could be +ve or -ve or zero for a particular month, however the developer will only calulate on the +ve values and disregard the negative values. our lawyers have tried to make this clause include the -ve values, but the developer did not agree to this. it's a sellers market at present and the developer is in a strong position. i assume this is the same developer that kneehawk is talking about; when I spoke to the developer i was quoted prices of around 5000zl/m2 , but this was a few months ago, so I expect them to be slightly higher now. we have helped investors successfully buy with this developer recently, so if you want some advice you can email me. at the moment I'm in Krakow, checking out a few developments and also attending the property exhibition here over the weekend;

kneehawkThreads: 1 Posts: 49 Joined: May 17, 07	May 23, 07, 03:51 / #
Hi Bennyboy, There is a strong possibility that the developer will accept a 10% deposit but he will load the price per sq m although this will not be unreasonable.the situation with interest only mortgages in Poland is changing all the time and in 2 years time there will be a greater choice of product so at present it is not a cause for concern.There will only be 100 flats in this development and they will sell out immediatly.luckily i met with the president of the company 6 weeks ago and have an angle on this email me on c.kaciniel@ntlworld.com and i can tell you more.

fionn McCool	May 23, 07, 04:07 / #
My company has just purchased 50 flats at discount price...240,000zl to 380,000zl, on immediate market for 680,000zl to 1m zl.

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,104 Joined: Nov 16, 06	May 23, 07, 04:26 / #
Quoting: fionn McCool My company What's the name of that company ?

fionn McCool	May 23, 07, 04:31 / #
Are you interested Greg, its a family business, McCool enterprizes inc.

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,104 Joined: Nov 16, 06	May 23, 07, 05:22 / #
Where did you buy these flats ?

Dell factory o	May 24, 07, 14:38 / #
whats this about a 44 percent tax. What exactly does that mean if i were to buy a property for 100k euro for example. Where are best areas in lodz. What sort of rental market is there. is there a dell factory open there, what is unemployment rates etc.

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,104 Joined: Nov 16, 06	May 24, 07, 14:54 / #
Quoting: Dell factory o What exactly does that mean if i were to buy a property for 100k euro for example. It means that If you sell It, you will have to pay 44% of profit you made on It. This tax doesn't exist yet but should before the end of this year. Generally "ivestments" in Polish property were great If someone bought 3 years ago and sells now, but to buy now is risky to say the least.

Neil63Threads: 8 Posts: 53 Joined: Apr 29, 07	May 29, 07, 19:30 / #
I can add a bit more info. I have bought property in the UK, Spain and Bulgaria. I have had my mind on Poland for some time, for many reasons. Warsaw and Krakow have had good growth and I think the markets there have had their good times. I have been going to Lodz for 1 year now and I like it. geographically it is an intersection between Krakow and Warsaw, it has an airport on its doorstep which serves London, Dublin, Paris and a few other cities. There are new main roads being built and more interestingly an increasing number of big multinational companies. Lodz was know for its textile industry but now these former factories are being converted into up market flats. I have bought 5 and I am looking at getting more. If you go to Lodz take a look at Manufaktura - this building was former textile building - now converted I think it looks really good. There is a good opportunity for growth here and I can see in the next 5 years Lodz will change. In fact I believe this so much I have put my money where my mouth is.

PolanglikThreads: 40 Posts: 848 Joined: May 16, 07	May 30, 07, 02:21 / #
Quoting: Neil63 There is a good opportunity for growth here and I can see in the next 5 years Lodz will change I agree Neil63, Lodz is one of the cities I believe will see good capital appreciation over the next few years. I think you still can't go wrong with investing in property in Warsaw and Krakow , although the growth in these cities will not be as such a fast pace, but the rental potential will be greater in Warsaw districts. I have heard of one recent development just released in Lodz, prices starting at over 6000zl/m2 which i thought was a bit high. I am waiting on the release of another development, maybe not classed as luxury standard, but more in tune with what Polish buyers /renters will be able to afford.

Neil63Threads: 8 Posts: 53 Joined: Apr 29, 07	May 30, 07, 16:29 / #
I have bought in the Ul Schrebelier development, there is a link below. Prices were 6500PLN /m2 when I first started looking, now they selling at 8300PLN /m2. The development is about 30 mins walk from the well know Piotrowska Street ( I can only ever pronounce that when Im drunk - funny that). There is a mixture of properties for sale in in Lodz. But, even if the more expensive apartments are out of reach it will have a knock on effect with other properties. I have got some Polish friend who live in England. They go back to Lodz once year. They tell me every time they go back they see big changes. uscheiblera.pl/pl/

mostThreads: 1 Posts: 27 Joined: Apr 20, 07	Jun 2, 07, 12:37 / #
But Lodz renters will not even be able to give you a yield on 6000 zloty per sqm. Average take home salary in Lodz is less than 2000 zloty, so rent levels are often less than 1000 zloty a month, leaving you with 300 months to cover the capital of a 50 sqm flat. Thats 24 years. Alternatively your average Lodz citizen would need 15 months full wages to put down a deposit on a 50sqm flat at 6000 per sqm. And then a mortgage for 10,5x earnings. Food for thought ? As for the town, well yes there is a new shopping centre. Big whoop. Of course your friends see big changes but how that translates into 6000 zloty per sqm I have no idea.

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