Putting pressure on developers to cut final installment

ash1972:

Harry, when you say high end central Warsaw prices have come down 20%, are you basing that on the 20 000 PLN/sqm or so prices that were being touted 15 months ago?

From what I understand 12 to 13 is still pretty much the norm for completed flats.

ash1972Threads: 3 Posts: 93 Joined: Oct 22, 08	Dec 24, 08, 07:43 / #
Hello Everybody, Just wondered how many of you are currently in the position of having a final large payment installment (80-90%) coming up after having put down a small deposit some time in the past. In the current climate is it worth attempting to force the developer to renegotiate your original contract so that the total price is, say, 10% lower? In many cases these developers are still selling new flats off plan - and may well be struggling. I'm guessing that the last thing they'd want is a lot of previous buyers walking away from the deal after having only put down 10%. It will leave them massively out of pocket. What do you think?

Guest	Dec 26, 08, 11:16 / #
It would be worth your while to give this a go. Check how many units are remaining for sale. If there are quite a few then either renegotiate or it might be more beneficial to sacrifice the deposit and buy another one.

daniel.podpora	Dec 27, 08, 04:14 / #
halo It is a very good idea. but i recommend to find more investors who bought unit in the investment and go to the developer together. if anyone is interested i can help in negotiations. and might be i will be able to receive a larger discount. any one interested? daniel.podpora@gmail.com daniel.podpora@gmail.com

ash1972Threads: 3 Posts: 93 Joined: Oct 22, 08	Dec 29, 08, 03:35 / #
I have bought in Phase I of the Murano development by Budimex in central Warsaw. The date for the final 90% payment is May 2009, and my off plan purchase price in July 07 was 12 700 Pln/sqm. Anyone else?

ash1972Threads: 3 Posts: 93 Joined: Oct 22, 08	Dec 31, 08, 06:30 / #
For those of you that are Property Secrets members, here is a link to the discussion I started: http://www.propertysecrets.net/forum/budimex_murano_development_phase_ i_in_central_warsaw/10360/35513.html

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 31, 08, 07:01 / #
Push for at least 10%. Property prices in general in Warsaw are down by about 10%. For high end central stuff that's closer to 20%! When the market was booming developers in general (although not Budimex specifically, as far as I know) had no problem with tearing up contracts and pushing up the prices for people who had put down deposits on places at lower prices. What goes around comes around.

ash1972Threads: 3 Posts: 93 Joined: Oct 22, 08	Dec 31, 08, 07:42 / #
Harry, when you say high end central Warsaw prices have come down 20%, are you basing that on the 20 000 PLN/sqm or so prices that were being touted 15 months ago? From what I understand 12 to 13 is still pretty much the norm for completed flats.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Jan 5, 09, 11:26 / #
ash1972: Harry, when you say high end central Warsaw prices have come down 20%, are you basing that on the 20 000 PLN/sqm or so prices that were being touted 15 months ago? From what I understand 12 to 13 is still pretty much the norm for completed flats. Not sure which prices were being quoted. The figure is one which I happened to see in a confidential report produced by the management of a Polish developer for internal use only. Sorry but I can't go into details for obvious reasons.

ozdanThreads: 11 Posts: 70 Joined: Jan 18, 08	Jan 5, 09, 20:44 / #
ash1972: From what I understand 12 to 13 is still pretty much the norm for completed flats. Not if no-one is buying them. Sounds like unfortunately you bought at the absolute peak and most likely at an over inflated price given that by the looks of it these properties have been touted as "luxury" or "higher end" to foreign investors like yourself. You would probably be better off forfeiting your deposit and trying to buy another apartment at 20%(or more) less than what they were sold at 15 months ago. Or even better... wait it out until more certain times arrive. It seems you are in a pretty desperate state at the moment with all the threads you are posting.. and it appears as though you are not sure what to do.. If you don't have a plan.. then maybe it would be sensible to get out and wait until you do.

ash1972Threads: 3 Posts: 93 Joined: Oct 22, 08	Edited by: ash1972 Jan 6, 09, 03:30 / #
ozdan: Not if no-one is buying them. I haven't tried to sell so I don't know, to be honest. The majority of flats in the development were sold to locals. ozdan: You would probably be better off forfeiting your deposit and trying to buy another apartment at 20%(or more) less than what they were sold at 15 months ago Isn't it better not to forfeit the deposit and renegotiate the contract to make the purchase price 20% less? Doesn't that make more sense? ozdan: It seems you are in a pretty desperate state at the moment with all the threads you are posting.. and it appears as though you are not sure what to do Well, that's a bit of an assumption! Not so desperate actually as I have no debt whatsoever. But, is anyone ever really sure what to do, given these volatile times? I'm exploring different options as any good businessman would. Threads are a useful way of doing that.

ozdanThreads: 11 Posts: 70 Joined: Jan 18, 08	Jan 7, 09, 17:15 / #
ash1972: What are you on about? One is for sale, but the ONE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ON THIS THREAD isn't. I really can't make things any simpler than that. yes.. i understand this. My point is.. are we really comparing apples and oranges here? Harrys comment was a general one about the state of warsaw apartments. And I'm guessing you used the same "12 to 13" rationale when you priced your Platinum towers apartment at 12 500PLN? So claiming that you "don't know" because you "haven't tried to sell" is stretching the truth a bit. Logic would suggest that if you have tried to sell one apartment, then you can apply the same findings here. Anyway.. all that aside. The reason why I'm having a go is because your arguments/comments on various threads seem to contradict your actions. This is just one of a number of examples. ash1972: That's not terribly logical. If you think somebody's not a good businessman then surely you should do business with him/her as you're likely to come off better in any deal you strike. This probably paints a clearer picture of your attitude. I was actually trying to make a point that someone who provides misleading information is not a good businessman. Try focusing more on your strengths rather than other peoples weaknesses.

ash1972Threads: 3 Posts: 93 Joined: Oct 22, 08	Jan 8, 09, 04:56 / #
Ozdan, it's difficult to respond to what you've said as they're just your feelings - to which you are fully entitled. But I genuinely don't believe you can compare prices in different standard developments in different locations. Just because 2 properties are "high end central Warsaw" it doesn't mean they're going to have the same price per sq m. And do note that this listing was up over the Christmas period which is incredibly quiet.

agomulaThreads: - Posts: 5 Joined: Mar 11, 09	Mar 11, 09, 13:07 / #
Daniel, I believe the RedNet is not going to reverse the economic situation on the Polish market even if you make the developers think that you represent a bigger crowd

daniel.podpora	Mar 12, 09, 18:20 / #
you have right that rednet and PS will not act on behalf of the customer to reduce the price becouse they took commission and this is a customer problem. but from my experience it is possible to receive reduction of the price. crowd is always stonger than single person, i am not talking only regarding developers but also loans, selling and so on. so the crowd are welcome regards daniel.podpora@gmail.com

ozdanThreads: 11 Posts: 70 Joined: Jan 18, 08	Jan 6, 09, 15:44 / #
ash1972: I haven't tried to sell so I don't know, to be honest. http://www.polishforums.com/central_warsaw_srodmiescie_flat-45_28947_0 .html

ash1972Threads: 3 Posts: 93 Joined: Oct 22, 08	Jan 6, 09, 16:32 / #
Ah, that was the other one - the first one I was talking about. That's still for sale. I haven't tried to sell the Budimex/Murano apartment, the one we're talking about here.

ozdanThreads: 11 Posts: 70 Joined: Jan 18, 08	Jan 6, 09, 17:06 / #
Oh ok then.. In that case I can completely understand how you would forget that you had a property on the market then. Sorry... ash1972: I'm exploring different options as any good businessman would. Threads are a useful way of doing that. I'm not sure what your idea of a good businessman is but I wouldn't do business with you thats for sure.

ash1972Threads: 3 Posts: 93 Joined: Oct 22, 08	Jan 7, 09, 04:26 / #
ozdan: Oh ok then.. In that case I can completely understand how you would forget that you had a property on the market then What are you on about? One is for sale, but the ONE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ON THIS THREAD isn't. I really can't make things any simpler than that. ozdan: I'm not sure what your idea of a good businessman is but I wouldn't do business with you thats for sure That's not terribly logical. If you think somebody's not a good businessman then surely you should do business with him/her as you're likely to come off better in any deal you strike. It's also somewhat odd that you think NOT exploring all your options is what makes one a better businessman. Then again, business culture does vary from country to country, and I don't have much experience of Poland.