What does 250,000 zl buy in Wroclaw?

Avalon:

AvalonThreads: 1
Posts: 209
Joined: Sep 11, 07
Gender: Male Yesterday, 11:57 #
The problem I have with the estate agents taking a commission from the buyer and the seller is, just who, the hell, are the agents acting for?.......there is a huge conflict of interests and this should not be allowed. Imagine if both your wife and yourself had to use the same lawyer for divorce?

polandabroadThreads: 4 Posts: 3 Joined: Jun 7, 09	Nov 15, 09, 03:40 / #
Can you get a decent sized flat in a nice area on that kind of money?

MacduffThreads: 13 Posts: 86 Joined: Oct 30, 07	Nov 15, 09, 04:20 / #
It may be enough for a deposit prices in Polish Citys are very high in price for appartments compared to the average wage! So if you want somthing decent you are talking around 600,000 zlt you could possibly get a small one bedroom in a rough condition and in a rough area for around 350,000zlt.

tadozThreads: - Posts: 30 Joined: Oct 25, 09	Nov 15, 09, 06:58 / #
Try following link, a sample of what you can expect for that sort of money… otodom.pl/index.php?mod=search&act=searchResults&qid=44045963&c urrentPage=1&objSearchQuery_Orderby=creation_date

bolekThreads: 10 Posts: 369 Joined: Sep 13, 08	Nov 15, 09, 09:44 / #
polandabroad: Can you get a decent sized flat in a nice area on that kind of money? simple answer is a big no. If you approach a Real Estate company they will laugh at you.. You may need to look at somebody who is selling privately and you may be lucky to get a flat ie approx 40m. You may want to wait for the real estate crash.. it will come...

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 [Suspended]	Edited by: delphiandomine Nov 15, 09, 12:50 / #
Macduff: So if you want somthing decent you are talking around 600,000 zlt you could possibly get a small one bedroom in a rough condition and in a rough area for around 350,000zlt. I'm sorry, but this is complete nonsense spouted by 'property speculators' who got sold overpriced flats in Poland with high mortgages that they can't get rid of. The truth is far, far from this - and prices are still dropping at the minute, especially for communist-era flats. otodom.pl/mieszkanie-wroclaw-srodmiescie-5736m2-2-pokoje-285000-pln-id 4024498.html Is an example - in a flat from 1903, which tend to be solid. Located not far from the centre of the city, 2 big rooms and in a more than inhabitable state. Wroclaw doesn't really have 'rough areas' either. I can safely say that in Poznan at least, the communist blocks are actually in better shape than many buildings built in the 90's. I wouldn't be surprised if the same holds true in Wroclaw. If I can give one piece of advice - stay away from English-speaking property consultants. My business helps foreigners in Poland, and the one thing that is blatantly clear is that the vast majority of these, even the native English speakers have absolutely crazy expectations. The truth in Wroclaw is that you won't get a new build flat, fully equipped in a nice area and a decent (50sq+) size for 250k. But you can get a communist block or even earlier, equipped, in a safe area, and a decent size for 250k, that much is certain.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Nov 15, 09, 13:56 / #
'rough areas in wroclaw' As delphiandomine mentioned there are no really rough areas of Wroclaw. But there are plenty of areas with mixed housing (flats), both old and new, on the same street. The occupants can be as good or as bad as each other. Old flats may seem to produce rough types. New flats may have young folk, either renting or owners, who like to party. For 250,000 it might be possible to get something in an older property in the city limits. As an alternative you could also buy a house, in need of renovation and with land, just outside town. Wroclaw is a big city so it might be worth considering where you work. A lot of time can be wasted, if you are travelling across the city. For perspective: there are plenty of 1,000,000zl homes in Wroclaw.

anton888Threads: 1 Posts: 103 Joined: Jun 5, 09	Nov 15, 09, 13:58 / #
polandabroad You need to define what do you mean by polandabroad: decent sized flat in a nice area Standard is very different, some old flat seems cheap but need to pour money in from time to time to fix anything you can think of. The flat itself can be nice, but the common area... you also need to know the ppl who live in the same block, sometimes you will be surprised. Also when things get old it need to be fix, if your neighbour can't afford or don't want to contribute the cost, then you will live in a broken place. There are many examples in some delphiandomine: communist block or even earlier in the centre of most big cities in PL. You get what you pay for and 250K is not a big sum in 2009 (much better in 1989).

galwaymanThreads: 2 Posts: 15 Joined: Aug 3, 09	Nov 15, 09, 17:10 / #
Go outside the City - about 2-3 miles , and you will get something for 250K if your looking for more than a shoe box , and be prepared to roll up your sleves for a little cosmetic work ! Painting , Tiling etc. Happy hunting !!

bolekThreads: 10 Posts: 369 Joined: Sep 13, 08	Nov 15, 09, 21:13 / #
Wroclaw: For perspective: there are plenty of 1,000,000zl homes in Wroclaw. Most good homes in Poland are worth 1m plus in Poland, the question must be asked are there many 1m zl buyers around???????????. I don't the average home buyer has a fat bank balance and is able to afford a million zl loan.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09	Nov 15, 09, 23:51 / #
bolek: Most good homes in Poland are worth 1m plus in Poland, the question must be asked are there many 1m zl buyers around???????????. I don't the average home buyer has a fat bank balance and is able to afford a million zl loan. An object is never worth more than people will pay for it.

JucheThreads: 13 Posts: 356 Joined: Feb 17, 09	Edited by: Juche Nov 16, 09, 00:16 / #
bolek: Who sets the price of real estate?? I suggest the answer is real estate agents. maybe because they are keeping their fingers crossed for high commissions. we invited an agent over to discuss the listing and she recommended PLN 9,300 per sq metre for a third floor flat in an old building. Mind you, the flat itself is nice and the location is quite good, and her recommendation was at first pleasing to our ears (she insisted that she knew the market well), but when the masses didn't exactly come knocking we quickly told her to get real and lower the price.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57 Posts: 5,470 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Nov 26, 09, 19:43 / #
bolek: Who sets the price of real estate?? I suggest the answer is real estate agents. As a poster here commented its only worth as much as someone is willing to pay. Property prices are set by a number issues first and foremost is the seller, be them a developer or a private home owner, real estate agents can say what they like but if it doesnt sell its no good for anybody. Any buyer with sense will go straight to the developer if theyre smart and intend to buy new. developers will negotiate prices especially now and of course no agency commission. The whole Nieruchomosci structure in Poland is wrotten to the core, everybody is back stabbing everybody else, you get a contract shoved under your nose the minute you walk into an agents office. thats just wrong. bolek: It becomes a cat and mouse game when dealing with real estate agents, unfortunately if they know you love the property it becomes hard to get the price down. No that is incorrect the seller dictates the price. i admit some Polish agents will try anything, i had a property to sell through a Polish agent. Everytime i had an interested client all of a sudden they had another buyer who wanted to close asap, but get this they could wait a week. I said if you have a buyer sell it, it was obviosuly a lie aimed at pressuring my client to move. Greed leads to nothing, youll lose in the end. Its like do you honestly think i was born yesterday.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Nov 26, 09, 19:49 / #
bolek: It becomes a cat and mouse game when dealing with real estate agents, unfortunately if they know you love the property it becomes hard to get the price down. Very true. But here in Warsaw, people have told me they've bribed agents to get the price down. As long as the bribe covers what they'd lose in commission and a bit on top, some of them are up for it. I just looked on Onet for flats in Wrocław around 250000, and some do seem optimistically priced. And on the market for a long time. I don't think Poles will stop advertising their real estate at a price 'do negociacji' any day soon, but while credit is hard to get, I'm sure many sellers can be talked down to a more realistic price.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Nov 26, 09, 19:56 / #
The person who told me about that had just done it himself. It cost him (I think) 5000zl, but saved a small fortune.

JucheThreads: 13 Posts: 356 Joined: Feb 17, 09	Nov 15, 09, 23:59 / #
SzwedwPolsce: An object is never worth more than people will pay for it. good point. I am trying to unload a flat in Warsaw for PLN 370,000 so your statement has unusually profound meaning for me. The flat is nice and bunker-like.

bolekThreads: 10 Posts: 369 Joined: Sep 13, 08	Nov 16, 09, 00:05 / #
SzwedwPolsce: An object is never worth more than people will pay for it. Thats why real estate agents zero in on foreign buyers, because they are still able to buy at a inflated price. Who sets the price of real estate?? I suggest the answer is real estate agents.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Nov 16, 09, 00:08 / #
bolek: Most good homes in Poland are worth 1m plus in Poland Oh no they're not. Now it's your turn Bolek.

bolekThreads: 10 Posts: 369 Joined: Sep 13, 08	Nov 16, 09, 01:15 / #
Juche: but when the masses didn't exactly come knocking we quickly told her to get real and lower the price. It becomes a cat and mouse game when dealing with real estate agents, unfortunately if they know you love the property it becomes hard to get the price down.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57 Posts: 5,470 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Nov 26, 09, 19:54 / #
jonni: But here in Warsaw, people have told me they've bribed agents to get the price down. As long as the bribe covers what they'd lose in commission and a bit on top, some of them are up for it. thats easily averted by visiting the seller directly unless the contract states otherwise, the agent still gets his commission but you can be sure they are not lying and ripping off the buyer and the seller.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57 Posts: 5,470 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER	Nov 26, 09, 19:58 / #
jonni: The person who told me about that had just done it himself. It cost him (I think) 5000zl, but saved a small fortune. So youre basically saying this guy had to pay 5000 PLN for the agent to thrash out a discounted price from the vendor (seller)?

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Edited by: jonni Nov 26, 09, 19:59 / #
Wroclaw Boy Yes. It was probably him who suggested it to the agent, knowing him as I do. I got the impression it's not unusual. He seemed quite blase about it.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57 Posts: 5,470 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Nov 26, 09, 20:03 / #
jonni: Yes. It was probably his idea, knowing him. I got the impression it's not unusual. Sorry im not buying that, what if he just walked away and told the agent to shove it? Did the agent have so many other buyers lined up that were willing to pay bribes? If so he would have been holding them all to ransom, and what about the property was it unoccupied? what would stop the buyer after visiting the property just knocking on the door, speaking to the vendor and saying look, your agent has bribed me 5000 PLN to negotiate a lower price on your porperty are you aware of this. At the end of the day the buyer would have met the seller at the Notary for completion and could have told him directly then. It just doesnt make sense im afraid mate. Some bodys lying here.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Nov 26, 09, 20:29 / #
We're talking at cross purposes, I think. Wroclaw Boy: what if he just walked away and told the agent to shove it? It was he who suggested it to the agent. Wroclaw Boy: Did the agent have so many other buyers lined up that were willing to pay bribes? Who knows? If there were, it wouldn't have made much difference. Agents want to make the best commission they can, and quickly, so they can concentrate on the rest of their list. My friend wanted the land, and wanted it as cheaply as possible. It was worth his while to recompensate the agent for his reduced commission by offering him some cash. Wroclaw Boy: what would stop the buyer after visiting the property just knocking on the door, speaking to the vendor and saying look, your agent has bribed me 5000 PLN The buyer paid the bribe. Why would an agent bribe somebody? Wroclaw Boy: could have told him directly then That would have been very foolish indeed.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57 Posts: 5,470 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Nov 26, 09, 20:41 / #
jonni: It was worth his while to recompensate the agent for his reduced commission by offering him some cash. ahh reduced commission thats fine, i assumed your were talking about the discounted sales price. Bribes for reduced commission absolutely why the hell not? I'd do it too. you said: jonni: people have told me they've bribed agents to get the price down. hence the confusion. lets say you have a 3% commission on a 1,000,000 property commission is 30,000 then 22% vat, you have 36,600 to pay, what agent / individual what evers not gonna reduce the commission to 1.5 % and take a 8,000 bribe? Winners all round.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Nov 26, 09, 21:02 / #
Wroclaw Boy: Winners all round. Exactly. Though in this case it was a kind of fraud against the vendor. The commission I imagine stayed at the same percentage; the agent would probably have had to work on the vendor a bit to convince them to take a lower price. My friend mentioned it as if it was no big deal, so I suspect it happens quite often.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57 Posts: 5,470 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Nov 26, 09, 21:12 / #
jonni: Exactly. Though in this case it was a kind of fraud against the vendor. The commission I imagine stayed at the same percentage; the agent would probably have had to work on the vendor a bit to convince them to take a lower price. My friend mentioned it as if it was no big deal, so I suspect it happens quite often. No, i dont think thats it. The buyer and the seller agreed a sales price via the agent, the buyer didnt want to pay full sales commission to the agent so offered a cash incentive to avoid #1 buyer paying more #2 the agent having to pay so much to the tax man #3 the agent accepting a bribe to bypass his company, cash in hand no questions asked, if the company questioned, his response would have been sorry couldnt get a better deal whilst having 5 large in his back pocket In that case all the agent does is back date a contract and change the commission from 3% to lets say 1.5%. If youre now talking about the vendor being victim of fraud were right back to square one, or both. What ever the scenario agents are sneaky fcukers, thats for sure.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Nov 26, 09, 21:27 / #
Wroclaw Boy That would make sense, but agents are indeed devious. And so is my friend. I'm not sure if the agent worked for a company or was a one mane band, like so many are here. He was supposed to be the agent for the vendor. My friend, the buyer, slipped him a bung to work in the buyer's favour. And illegally recompensed him for any legal income he lost out on by doing this. Naughty, but that's human nature sometimes!

AvalonThreads: 3 Posts: 812 Joined: Sep 11, 07	Nov 27, 09, 11:57 / #
The problem I have with the estate agents taking a commission from the buyer and the seller is, just who, the hell, are the agents acting for?.......there is a huge conflict of interests and this should not be allowed. Imagine if both your wife and yourself had to use the same lawyer for divorce?

ChrisPolandThreads: 3 Posts: 143 Joined: Oct 15, 09	Nov 27, 09, 13:58 / #
I negotiated the commission with the agent before we started looking at properties. How could we expect someone to negotiate in our name in good faith when it would have brought down their income?

carl marx	Nov 28, 09, 03:51 / #
Avalon: AvalonThreads: 1 Posts: 209 Joined: Sep 11, 07 Gender: Male Yesterday, 11:57 # The problem I have with the estate agents taking a commission from the buyer and the seller is, just who, the hell, are the agents acting for?.......there is a huge conflict of interests and this should not be allowed. Imagine if both your wife and yourself had to use the same lawyer for divorce? its like not having a lawyer but a mediater:))) which is legal and cheaper to use then 2 lawyers fighting for rights.. a new approach by courts to cut costs and by the parties involved it happens in most cases some courts in USA even make the attending lawyers compulsary to volunteer as mediators on the court dates to cut legal costs 9ofcourse if the parties agree) or go on with the proceedings,so likewise i like this procedure cuz one can dbl attack them by having a legal advisor and a realtor infact costs same but more safer for one in future