Damn proud of being (half) Polish

Ozi Dan wrote:

I just finished rereading Rising '44 by Norman Davies and its stirred some emotion in my otherwise calm persona.

I don't know about anyone else, but by crikey I'm damn proud of having Polish blood in me. To all the haters and doubters, I'm starting to think jealousy is creeping into it.

Ozi DanThreads: 22 Posts: 552 Joined: Nov 22, 07	Jan 3, 08, 01:11 / #
Hi all, I just finished rereading Rising '44 by Norman Davies and its stirred some emotion in my otherwise calm persona. I don't know about anyone else, but by crikey I'm damn proud of having Polish blood in me. To all the haters and doubters, I'm starting to think jealousy is creeping into it. Cheers, Dan

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,984 Joined: Nov 18, 07	Jan 3, 08, 04:44 / #
congratulations on such a fine achievement as having at least one parent who was polish. For this you certainly put in a lot of effort, and that effort paid off. You should also receive an ovation for all the sacrifices you made in 44 and deserve to be proud of that. :)

KilklineThreads: 3 Posts: 894 Joined: Jul 23, 07	Jan 3, 08, 05:06 / #
Ozi Dan wrote: I just finished rereading Rising '44 by Norman Davies and its stirred some emotion in my otherwise calm persona. I don't know about anyone else, but by crikey I'm damn proud of having Polish blood in me. To all the haters and doubters, I'm starting to think jealousy is creeping into it. I too felt a great deal of pride reading that book. Although I am half German.

omniba	Edited by: omniba Jan 3, 08, 05:27 / #
I’ve had that book for ages but never got around to reading it so thanks for reminding me of it. Have you ever read anything by Richard C. Lukas? He wrote “Did the Children Cry” – it’s about the Nazi war against Polish children (irrespective of faith). The premise is excellent – but then Lukas gets too emotive and somehow the book loses its impetus - becomes less quotable. Then of course there's Marta Michalska's "W Nocy i Mgle" that is very good. That too is about Polish children in the war.

kiokoThreads: - Posts: 85 Joined: Jan 3, 08	Jan 3, 08, 08:34 / #
I've finished the book some time ago. It gives a little different point of view at the topic. I've read a lot of memoirs of AK members that took part in the uprising. It is impossible to imagine how those young people felt and what they had gone thorough. I don't know if any of those books are in English, but if you know Polish you should read them. For example "Zośka". I always think how I would be acting in such times.

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06	Jan 3, 08, 09:30 / #
Foreigner4 wrote: congratulations on such a fine achievement as having at least one parent who was polish. I sense someone didnt get a chocolate santa for christmas.. :( on the brite side, he has one, but I have two Polish parents to be proud of.. and yes, even though they are in heaven, they raised me, they taught me right from wrong, and I love them.. and I will always be proud of my parents no matter who, or what.. because I do have something to be proud of. I am proud of my life, I am proud of my accomplishments I am proud of my heritage I am proud of my children I am proud of my dog ( he protected our house the other day with a stand off with the water guy :) LOL ) I am proud of my job I am proud that my dad fought in WWII and saved alot of arses.. he and so many of my mom and dads first cousins all served in the war to make sure we have a future.. I am proud to say I am proud cause I know it annoys certain people but I will stand against his negative ninkompoop rants because people have the right to be proud :))) peace and love be with you all... and be proud.. doh!

noimmigration	Jan 3, 08, 10:18 / #
Patrycja19 wrote: I am proud that my dad fought in WWII and saved alot of arses.. he and so many im proud my grandad fought in ww2 and saved poland too

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06	Jan 3, 08, 11:04 / #
noimmigration wrote: im proud my grandad fought in ww2 and saved poland too and you.. without him, you wouldnt even be here, he not only saved others, but himself, so that you could be born. you think he fought only for Poland, he fought because he knew that if he didnt, your future in the UK would be nothing.. who was going to take over all of europe??

noimmigration	Jan 3, 08, 11:09 / #
The polsih hardly fought, I mean they were attacking tanks on horseback. All the polish talk about their contribution in ww2 was a handful of polish pilots.

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,984 Joined: Nov 18, 07	Jan 3, 08, 11:14 / #
noimmigration wrote: The polsih hardly fought, I mean they were attacking tanks on horseback. All the polish talk about their contribution in ww2 was a handful of polish pilots. hey hey hey, don't go disrespecting those who defended their homeland, c'mon even i know that. You weren't there so don't talk like you know what went on. Too many people these days talk like they know with complete authority what the past was like without ever having been there. Besides if those guys did attack on horseback then that is bloody admirable and courageous. I wouldn't throw the word proud into the mix cause it doesn't belong but it is still, even as a thought, something to behold.

Ozi DanThreads: 22 Posts: 552 Joined: Nov 22, 07	Jan 4, 08, 05:32 / #
Foreigner4 wrote: admiration son, that's the word you should be using. etc... I cant but help shake my head at the misuse of quotes here. How did the words you quoted lead your response? Clearly you didnt do me the courtesy of properly reading my post. You would have seen that my pride is not an egocentric emotion. Pride can also mean pleasure, respect and admiration at what other people have done. Sorry I didnt phrase it correctly, but I think I've answered your grammatical challenge and I'll comfortably suggest that you came off second best old son. Barbeque or tomato sauce with your humble pie? Foreigner4 wrote: Uhh congratulations on making the emotional effort to realize you have parents who made sacrifices. I wished I'd laid a bet on you not understanding my experience because you clearly didnt. In plain English, just for you, the emotional effort bit refers to having a father who was clearly negatively effected by the war, and such effects were indirectly experienced by me. Exmaple: Me as a young fellow when eating tomato soup with my dad, who's close to tears - "Dad, what's wrong?". Dad - "I was eating tomato soup when my dad's friends came and told me and my mum that my father had just been killed by a dive bomber" or when I questioned dad "Why dont you like German Shepherds?" and dad says "because those fukin Kraut bastards used them against children" or when I asked my dad "why have you got all those little holes in your legs" and he tells me it was because he was shot at with a machine gun and concrete shards shredded his legs. Emotional effort to hear this **** - YOU BET MATE! Dont try and dishonour me by insinuating I'm trying to appropriate kudos that arent mine. If you dont understand, ask first. If you dont want to understand and simply use this forum to try to impress with your witty analyses of what pride is and who is allowed to have it an in what context then you've been shown up for what you are. Oh, and the really special last paragraph of talking about me in the 3rd person as some type of pretend soldier and valour thief - I must say I'm at a loss to respond, and that's rare for me because I do this type of stuff for a living. All I can do is shake my head. So here's the second bit of free advice I'll give you because you failed to follow the first bit and got burnt - know what you're talking about and dont underestimate your audience or adversary, because not everyone will swallow what you say. Next time if you disagree with something I say, approach me politely and express it respectfully. If you dont get the gist of what I say, ask for clarification. If you still disagree, then at least the contentious point will be clear and I wont have to waste my time doing this again.

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,984 Joined: Nov 18, 07	Jan 4, 08, 06:28 / #
For someone who's supposed to be burnt i'm feeling incredibly cool. Ozi Dan wrote: Barbeque or tomato sauce with your humble pie? neither. it's specificity of words that i was on about. I'll be the first to admit it's unpopular and sure to garner more negative reactions, but nonetheless necessary. The misuse of "pride" starts with good natured stuff, but is a slippery slope that leads to: Ozi Dan wrote: Why dont you like German Shepherds?" and dad says "because those fukin Kraut bastards used them against children" it's that simple really. The armchair hero stuff wasn't about you but it was. I suppose in the sense that you accusing me of armchair heroics was just as accurate? And the last paragraph wasn't about you either, it was explaining my disdain for the word "pride" when people talk about things they haven't done. If you do that for a living then might i suggest a career change? But, hey, they're your feelings so feel away. i just think that: admiration; amazement; and recognition lead to the same ends but never slip towards nationalism like "pride" so often does. looks like we disagree (unsurprisingly) how important leaving pride out of the equation really is.

omniba	Jan 4, 08, 07:36 / #
Foreigner4 wrote: you're right, it's a typo/editing mistake i don't think i can fix it though so it stands as a mistake Yes, well I'm glad you pointed that out. Thank you. However now I'll come to another little point: the use of "son". Do you think it is appropriate in such circumstances? Because unless you're about 90 years of age, did your bit to save us all from the dreaded Hun etc. etc. etc.,"son" sounds awfully patronizing, don't you think?

omniba	Jan 4, 08, 08:09 / #
I always think that a lot that can be said face to face, when we can read body language, eyes, even hear the tone of voice etc. doesn’t somehow go down too well here, on the Forum, where all these things are impossible. We’re writing about some very sensitive matters – things very close to peoples’ hearts - so greater care must be taken here than in face to face conversation, surely. Anyway, believe me, hostility isn’t all that easy to veil. And it’s always down to the writer, not the reader, to make sure of possible interpretations, wouldn’t you agree?

szarlotkaThreads: 14 Posts: 3,349 Joined: Feb 20, 07	Jan 3, 08, 11:17 / #
noimmigration wrote: was a handful of polish pilots. And the tactics used to fight the Luftwaffe in dog fighting - is there any point in correcting you about anything noim?

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06	Edited by: Patrycja19 Jan 3, 08, 11:27 / #
Foreigner4 wrote: hey hey hey, don't go disrespecting those who defended their homeland, c'mon even i know that. WOW>> there is a decent guy in there after all. noimmigration wrote: The polsih hardly fought, I mean they were attacking tanks on horseback http://www.ww2.pl/The,1939,Campaign,22.html I came back to edit and say, well you must have become educated all of the sudden thats good :))

Ozi DanThreads: 22 Posts: 552 Joined: Nov 22, 07	Jan 4, 08, 00:41 / #
omniba wrote: Have you ever read anything by Richard C. Lukas? He wrote “Did the Children Cry” Thanks for the tip - I havent read this. If its about children being murdered I dont think I could. I don't have the stomach for that kind of thing. My dad has told me enough stories about what happended to children in Warsaw to haunt anyone for a lifetime. Ive tried to urge my dad to pen his memoirs of WW2 but he wont. He was born in 1937. I'd urge other forum members to talk to their grandparents/parents so that this information wont be lost. kioko wrote: I don't know if any of those books are in English, but if you know Polish you should read them. For example "Zośka". I always think how I would be acting in such times. Regretably I can't speak it. I too try to think how I would have acted in such circumstances. I dont think anyone can really say for sure unless they're put to the test. I particularly admire the scouting movement in Poland and the way scouting principles served to guide the "grey ranks" moral compass when they faced the fighting. Foreigner4 wrote: congratulations on such a fine achievement as having at least one parent who was polish. ... etc If this post was spiteful there's no need for that. As to effort, I suppose it can be an emotional effort having a Polish parent who lived through WW2 but lost everything. You wouldnt understand that though, but I'm sure a lot of others will. My sense of pride has nothing to do with egocentric notions of personal achievements. It's a source of pride that I wanted to share with other forum members who have similar backgrounds and understandings. The strange allusion you make to sacrifice in '44 wasnt mine - it was my grandad's. He died there in ealry August 44. Think about what you write before you do so. As so many have demonstrated on this forum, armchair heroics behind the safety of a computer screen impress no one.

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,984 Joined: Nov 18, 07	Edited by: Foreigner4 Jan 4, 08, 03:42 / #
Ozi Dan wrote: I suppose it can be an emotional effort admiration son, that's the word you should be using. you had nothing to do with it like it or not, so "pride" is simply the wrong word. And effort? Uhh congratulations on making the emotional effort to realize you have parents who made sacrifices. Sorry, i know i'm being a jerk but this "pat me on the back because my parents did so and so" is silliness at its worst. Ozi Dan wrote: Think about what you write before you do so. As so many have demonstrated on this forum, armchair heroics behind the safety of a computer screen impress no one. I'd say follow you're own advice, i'm not the armchair hero pretending to have been a soldier, no, no, that's reserved for those who are fortunate to be the fruit of such brave people (not just soldiers though)-and i say that with no tongue in cheek, truly remarkable people that deserve to be honoured by their descendents and others. Sadly these people wear the valour of ancestors like its theirs. Your grandfather sounds like a brave man and sounds like someone to admire, but how can you be proud of something you yourself haven't accomplished? if i were out to impress people do you really think i'd take such a stance that appeals to clear thinking and not sentiment?

KilklineThreads: 3 Posts: 894 Joined: Jul 23, 07	Jan 4, 08, 05:08 / #
noimmigration wrote: The polsih hardly fought, I mean they were attacking tanks on horseback. A myth.

omniba	Jan 4, 08, 07:07 / #
Kilkline wrote: A myth. You're right. It apparently was put about by Italian journalists who had sympathy with the Poles and their plight, wanted to add colour to their reports but did it in this catastrophic way. It was then picked up by the Germans to show Polish inferiority. Then it was romanticized by Andrzej Wajda in one of his films and went down as history! But it is a myth. Ozi Dan wrote: emotional effort having a Polish parent who lived through WW2 but lost everything. You wouldnt understand that though, but I'm sure a lot of others will. You're quite right - but, as you said, these are things one has to live through to understand. Foreigner4 wrote: [Ozi Dan wrote: I suppose it can be an emotional effort] admiration son, that's the word you should be using. What exactly do you mean here, with reference to your quoting Ozi Dan's "emotional effort"? I'm not quite sure how "admiration" enters into what he said in this particular case.

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,984 Joined: Nov 18, 07	Jan 4, 08, 07:12 / #
omniba wrote: I'm not quite sure how "admiration" enters into what he said in this particular case. you're right, it's a typo/editing mistake i don't think i can fix it though so it stands as a mistake. but you're both right in being confused, you just did it much more clearly. cheers

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,984 Joined: Nov 18, 07	Jan 4, 08, 07:43 / #
all depends on how you read it, if with hostility then it will come across like that, you're right though i should have chosen something like "my good man." I guess my friends and i use that one too often and it slipped in here. I can't deny those are two good points.

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,984 Joined: Nov 18, 07	Jan 4, 08, 08:31 / #
i wouldn't agree with "always" but i hear what you're sayin. you sir have shamed the "correct" on me.

omniba	Jan 4, 08, 08:37 / #
You, sir, have mistaken me for a "sir"! :)

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,984 Joined: Nov 18, 07	Jan 4, 08, 08:43 / #
sorry son:)

PuzzlerThreads: 11 Posts: 1,613 Joined: Mar 21, 07	Jan 4, 08, 10:49 / #
noimmigration wrote: im proud my grandad fought in ww2 and saved poland too - Hasn't saved you, alas, from being a cowardly racist Polonophobe, psychopath, sexual pervert and total ignoramus, including WWII history. Is it genetic, this cowardice, Polonophobia, psychopathy, sexual perversion and stupidity of yours, creep? Did your grandad pass them on you? Consequently, didn't your grandad actually fight on the Nazi side? :)

Tran AnhThreads: 2 Posts: 128 Joined: Jun 23, 07	Jan 4, 08, 11:18 / #
Foreigner4 wrote: sorry son:) Mightily witty :) It is too hard to be at the dead middle of pride and humility!

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06	Jan 4, 08, 12:35 / #
Foreigner4 wrote: but how can you be proud of something you yourself haven't accomplished? hes saying he is proud of his grandfather and he is proud to be polish.. hes not taking the credit for it,, thats already with his grandfather who did wear the medals proudly!! he still carrys the right to be proud and to brag so to speak about his familys accomplishments,, as you would with your families, unless of course you have nothing to be proud of!!! I have to go to work.. but know that I am and always will be proud of something and theres nothing you can do about it.. ;)

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,984 Joined: Nov 18, 07	Jan 4, 08, 15:59 / #
Patrycja19 wrote: he still carrys the right to be proud and to brag so to speak about his familys accomplishments,, as you would with your families, unless of course you have nothing to be proud of!!! ^BINGO!^ now although ozdan was saying he'd wouldn't do what pat19 has stated, she does show how the misuse of pride leads to the slippery slope of "bragging" about things that one hasn't accomplished, yet not "taking credit for it(?). And that is why the word admire works soooo much better. taking pride in something one hasn't done or contributed to is a form of delusional thinking imho. sorry to the walter mitties of the world and pat19.

omniba	Jan 5, 08, 05:30 / #
Foreigner4 wrote: Foreigner4 Now, would you concede that one could be ashamed of ones parents or background etc? (Bypassing psychological aspects, etc :) - I just refer to the word "ashamed".)