Poland and Lithuania

mafketis:

Some years ago there was an interview with someone from the Lithuanian government who said that there's a tendency in Lithuania to see Poland as more of a cultural threat than Russia. The reasoning is that Russian language and culture were forced on them and resistence was strong enough that they could be accomodated. On the other hand there was a long history of self-Polonization in some parts of Lithuanian society (Mickiewicz and Miłosz both came from Polish speaking Lithuanian families) so it was felt to be the bigger threat.

Bitter_CatThreads: 2 Posts: 18 Joined: Jun 26, 08	Jun 27, 08, 16:42 / #
What do polish people think about lithuania? :)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 27, 08, 16:48 / #
Poles say very little about Lithuania. I have asked and Poles seem to be very neutral on this matter.

Bitter_CatThreads: 2 Posts: 18 Joined: Jun 26, 08	Jun 27, 08, 16:50 / #
hm... interesting cause a lot of polish people lives in Vilnius :)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 27, 08, 16:53 / #
Aha, but I bet there aren't many problems. A lot meaning 1,000,000? I doubt it!!

Bitter_CatThreads: 2 Posts: 18 Joined: Jun 26, 08	Jun 27, 08, 16:54 / #
who talks about problems? :)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 27, 08, 16:56 / #
British people. That's my point. What's ur perception of ur own country in short?

Bitter_CatThreads: 2 Posts: 18 Joined: Jun 26, 08	Jun 27, 08, 17:04 / #
well my own opinion about my country.. i love this place, the place we are (geography) is great, but the people has to grow and learn so much (not saying that all) and the goverment has to work A LOT.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 27, 08, 17:05 / #
That sounds like many countries really. The Scottish government has improved markedly in recent times tho. Please name me some famous Lithuanians.

Bitter_CatThreads: 2 Posts: 18 Joined: Jun 26, 08	Jun 27, 08, 17:07 / #
haha people who likes basketball all knows Sabonis.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 27, 08, 17:13 / #
Hmm..(scratches head) Anyone else?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 27, 08, 17:22 / #
I really don't know much about Lithuania, only in the context of EU Environmental Law policy did I encounter ur approaches to certain matters. U can teach us a lot. Most Poles don't know that much about the Baltic states. They may disagree but they'd be mistaken.

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07	Jun 27, 08, 17:25 / #
Hey, it used to be Poland: "Litwo, ojczyno moja! Jesteś jak zdrowie." so begins the first line of "Pan Tadeusz" and Adam Mickiewicz was born in Litwa or Lithuania.The Poles consider him Polish, yet he was techincally not born in present-day Poland:)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 27, 08, 17:27 / #
I agree. I've just had this discussion with my girl (1 min ago) and I think he's Lithuanian too. She, of course, doesn't. I have drunk Pan Tadeusz and the truth is there.

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07	Jun 27, 08, 17:31 / #
Well, the first part means simply (actually, nothing is so simple in European history) 'O Lithuania, land of my forefathers....!' The rest is less important to the seemingly endless historical debate: What is this guy? One of them or one of us?

Bitter_CatThreads: 2 Posts: 18 Joined: Jun 26, 08	Jun 27, 08, 17:14 / #
ok. Mamontovas, Kernagis, Igoris Kofas. Thats people i like here :)

Bitter_CatThreads: 2 Posts: 18 Joined: Jun 26, 08	Jun 27, 08, 17:27 / #
i dont understand polish. can you translate? :D

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 27, 08, 17:30 / #
Lithuania, my fatherland, u r like health (health-giving) I think Please give us some Lithuanian

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 27, 08, 17:37 / #
Warmth won't break your bones. This is a Lithuanian proverb. How do u say it in Lithuanian?

Bitter_CatThreads: 2 Posts: 18 Joined: Jun 26, 08	Jun 27, 08, 17:37 / #
ok, thanks :) lithuanian? Aš nemėgstu istorijos :D

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 27, 08, 17:39 / #
How do u pronounce that phonetically?

Bitter_CatThreads: 2 Posts: 18 Joined: Jun 26, 08	Jun 27, 08, 17:42 / #
its not what you asked, i wrote it and just then saw what you said :D sorry, it means i dont like history :) š letter sounds the same as sh in english and other sounds not sure how to describe..

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Jun 28, 08, 01:46 / #
Mickiewicz was a Pole with Lithuanian roots.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jun 28, 08, 03:27 / #
Lithuania is Polish...

AngelNCThreads: 3 Posts: 106 Joined: Dec 19, 07	Jun 28, 08, 03:44 / #
Marek: it used to be Poland a part of it was for a while. I've met many Lithuanians and they have totally different opinion about Polish-Lithuanian relationship. To be honest, it didn't sound like they felt Polish.

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07	Jun 28, 08, 07:20 / #
Mickiewicz, Polands "National Poet", was actually of Lithuanian birth, yet on historically Polish soil, who might well have evinced partly Jewish ancestry!! :) LOL What a slap in the face to Mościcki, Rydź-Smygły, even Paderewski, and other (though not necessarily anti-semitic) Polish nationalists, who claimed that only a true Pole, i.e. a Catholic, could reflect the 'duch narodowy' of her people. BZDURA!!!

EbonyandBathoryThreads: 7 Posts: 349 Joined: Feb 14, 08	Jul 8, 08, 17:56 / #
From what I understand, Poles have a warm but complicated relationship with Lithuania. Together, the two countries formed one of the most powerful nations in Europe and now, they scarcely have anything to do with each other. There is some bitterness becuase some Poles saw Lithuania deserting them and hitching their wagon to Russia, but all and all, I'd say Poles have a deep respect for Lithuania, as their histories intertwine so.

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Edited by: mafketis Jul 8, 08, 18:22 / #
IME Polish people have generally warm feelings toward Lithuania but Lithuanian feelings toward Poland are much more .... complicated. A friend was in Vilnius and noted that a lot of people reacted negatively to Polish people (I've known other visitors who didn't encounter any hostility). In the 90's there was some friction over the language of education for the Polish minority in Lithuania and the Lithuanian population in Poland. Both are theoretically bilingual but strongly wanted as much education as possible in their native language and not the national language. I think that's mostly been resolved. There was also an attempt to force Poles in Lithuania to adopt Lithuanian names but that didn't get very far and a compromise was worked out. Some years ago there was an interview with someone from the Lithuanian government who said that there's a tendency in Lithuania to see Poland as more of a cultural threat than Russia. The reasoning is that Russian language and culture were forced on them and resistence was strong enough that they could be accomodated. On the other hand there was a long history of self-Polonization in some parts of Lithuanian society (Mickiewicz and Miłosz both came from Polish speaking Lithuanian families) so it was felt to be the bigger threat. Also, at some point Lithuania modified it's alphabet to make it less like Polish and more like Czech (with letters like ž, č and š instead of ż, cz and sz) FWIW

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07	Jul 8, 08, 18:25 / #
Sabonis could be a Pole.

Wahldo	Jul 8, 08, 19:49 / #
Bitter_Cat: Sabonis. I know Sabonis.. he played for the Portland Trailblazers in the 90's. Good guy but he never learned English which made interviews interesting. Without Sabonis the Soviets dont win so many titles.

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Jul 10, 08, 09:23 / #
mafketis: Some years ago there was an interview with someone from the Lithuanian government who said that there's a tendency in Lithuania to see Poland as more of a cultural threat than Russia. The reasoning is that Russian language and culture were forced on them and resistence was strong enough that they could be accomodated. On the other hand there was a long history of self-Polonization in some parts of Lithuanian society (Mickiewicz and Miłosz both came from Polish speaking Lithuanian families) so it was felt to be the bigger threat. lol :) Fear that their citizens are going to chose Polish heriatge and be Polish is unsupported. From the other hand, very interesting :P Poland has beautiful history :) I like Lithuania.