Polish denial of reality - is it a national trade?

Quoting: Kowalski

You all guys and gals need to think in colors instead of this black or white duality scheme. Hell or Heaven, is it good in Poland or bad, better or worse, winner or looser. Remember: there is more colors then 2 and you would get better understandig.

miranda	Edited by: miranda Mar 22, 07, 12:24 / #
I got inspired by some of the forum memebers who, for some reason, due to many factors express a lot of denial when it comes to Polish reality. Is it because the truth is painful? I don't know. Being optimistic and being realistic overlap most of the time. DENIAL of reality is sometimesused as a tool to face the difficult reality. We have all experianced and used denial. I, however want to concentrate on the denial that Poland is in a good situation, with high unemployment, high cost of living, not too mention the real estate prices. As I mentioned before: you might get offended by this thread. But as I said before - it's your problem (thanks Szarlotka).

daffyThreads: 40 Posts: 2,119 Joined: Feb 5, 07	Mar 22, 07, 13:52 / #
so your saying poland is In a bad situation? or that it is in a situation that is bad and not getting etter? or that there are people who cannot see that things are in fact improving for poland every month?

LoneStrangerThreads: 3 Posts: 531 Joined: Jan 30, 07	Mar 22, 07, 14:00 / #
Quoting: miranda miranda She probably is just asking people to get REAL. Tell me (without getting hurt for God's sake), how many Polish people from Poland and living in here are present in the Polish forums. I once asked people, and no one replied! Most are from abroad, who only visit Poland sometimes, or are planning to come Poland and making equations about it, or some who are searching roots....and ofcourse - those searching THE POLISH WOMAN! But how many from inside of Poland...who knows it as it really is to the commons! Well...I am one of them....and I think Miranda is too right! We have alot of problems. SPECIALLY THE HOUSING....also medication! IT says that Miranda is in REAL close terms with Poland. WE POLISH are welcoming...so please dont take my post otherwise.... but foreighn living Poles or foreighners who are not spread on the ground of dealing with everyday life here, CANNOT understand our basic situations. Bottom line: We have a bad govt. (please dont censor it), and we have a bad economy.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Mar 22, 07, 14:03 / #
which countires have you lived in LS - when you compare poland to other countries on what basis are you making this comparisson...?

krysiaThreads: 26 Posts: 3,604 Joined: Aug 10, 06	Mar 22, 07, 14:06 / #
I agree, the visitors who go to Poland see it differently than the Poles living there. Same with Poles coming to the US. They have this image of money everywhere, but in reality you have to work very hard, pay taxes and soon realize life in the US is not as easy as they originally thought. So if a person goes to Poland and stays there longer, then he will see it's not like he first imagined it also. It's whatever you want to see.

LoneStrangerThreads: 3 Posts: 531 Joined: Jan 30, 07	Mar 22, 07, 14:14 / #
Quoting: BubbaWoo which countires have you lived in LS I have met people, had talks, share informations... My father has been in several places abroad, and he is a professor of economics. I understand that you see Poland differently....and it is good! I also want to do the same... But the ground situation of the ordinary Pole is very difficult. We need to work harder. For you... probably you have earned much from UK. For the remaining Pole, we want to manage ourselves in Poland... and have the country as a whole... have property too....not for free....but prices should be according to the terms of the income of Poles in total (and the average to be made keeping the extremely rich away). Let the middle class and the poor also be a part of Poland!....and this to our Government.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Mar 22, 07, 14:43 / #
Quoting: miranda I, however want to concentrate on the denial that Poland is in a good situation Poland is definately not a rich country, but It's definately not very bad and is getting better. Besides I think that we all know that Poland isn't rich, so what's the point of writing about that again again ? Does It turn somebody on ?

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Mar 22, 07, 14:49 / #
Quoting: daffy Daf, haven't you figured that out yet ? For most of Poles a person, who is not complaing 20 times a day is weired. In America when people say "What's up?" you should answer: great, fantastic or at least OK. In Poland you should say that It's tragic, otherwise people will think that you are on drugs or something.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Mar 22, 07, 15:14 / #
i know life can be very difficult in poland LS and i really dont mean to argue with you about this... i know how hard people are working just to keep afloat... Quoting: LoneStranger We need to work harder i dont think you do mate... if poles have a reputation in the uk for anything its for being hard workers... dont work too hard LS... its a waste of life... its not my intention to preach anymore than i usually do, and i dont want to pretend i have the answers... but what i do have is a different perspective on the world of capitalism that poland has found itself in... for less than a generation... than some on this site seem to i am quite comfortable holding my hand up to say i come to poland to make money... strewth...a man's gotta survive... and if i see an opportunity i will take it... but i am not there to cheat people, i drive a hard bargain but i pay a fair price... where possible i work with people i know and my partner and his family are close friends... theres not a lot of exploitation going on really, except i buy more drinks than anyone else... which on refl;ection is always my idea so what i am still trying to say as i so often do is that poland has entered a different, new world of existance in the very recent past... one that much of europe, especially the uk, has been living in for a hell of a lot longer... your life is difficult and so is ours, but if you are prepared to work hard, and you know what youre doing, there is a world of opportunity waiting for you... but dont work too hard... coz all work and no play make piotr a dull boy... Quoting: LoneStranger we want to manage ourselves in Poland... and have the country as a whole... have property too.... great! carry on

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Mar 22, 07, 15:16 / #
i write a lot of drivvel at times in case people hadnt noticed... Quoting: Grzegorz_ For most of Poles a person, who is not complaing 20 times a day is weired. Grzeg knows what hes talking about...

Giles	Mar 22, 07, 14:59 / #
lmao Greg,

mickey20	Mar 23, 07, 03:23 / #
money-money-money; must be funny; in a rich mans world

helloThreads: 37 Posts: 1,104 Joined: Dec 5, 06	Mar 23, 07, 17:52 / #
Quoting: Ranj Poland is just getting started.... Right. But in the meantime I feel sorry for all "Olas" or "Polaks" and other young people who have no choice, but to stay in Poland and build it for the next generations. Just like their parents in the socialism era...

RanjThreads: 27 Posts: 1,286 Joined: Sep 29, 06	Edited by: Ranj Mar 23, 07, 17:58 / #
Quoting: hello But in the meantime I feel sorry for all "Olas" or "Polaks" and other young people who have no choice, but to stay in Poland and build it for the next generations. Don't feel sorry for them.....isn't that what life is all about.....improving it for the new generations.....by that I mean, most people try to improve their lives for their children and grandchildren.....it is selfless and a great builder of character. Hopefully, the kids follow suit and the domino effect begins.... Go read post #295 under Favorite Quotes....Pingwin posted it and I think it says it all.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Mar 22, 07, 15:31 / #
Is this part of the answer/problem. Polish people want to make money. Foreign [British] people want to make money. The Foreign folk have a headstart.

LoneStrangerThreads: 3 Posts: 531 Joined: Jan 30, 07	Mar 22, 07, 15:46 / #
Quoting: BubbaWoo i dont think you do mate I work alot harder than many my friend! My financial background is very strong. My father is not only a professor, but has a good business of his own, and we have enough money. But I just want to make my own money, and ofcourse will join in with my father's business and expand it. My family infact is very closely knit and very strong bond (which is rare these days in Poland). I am pointing out the situation that common Poles are facing. And these are real situation. WE ARE WORKING HARD, very hard (please dont think that those who are complaining dont work hard!), but in return we are not getting enough to get a property. It is frustrating for many young people... and if young people are frustrated, then the result is often very bad, dont you agree? You must have prices of basic necessities according to the earning of the local, not the high earning and high spending foreighner.... thats what I am trying to say. Our country should know that their first responsibility is towards the common Pole/Resident of Poland, who stays here and works here! Hope you get it this time. There is no animosity in any of my posts towards anybody...just I held out my opinion on our govt. and what we want from it.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Mar 22, 07, 16:17 / #
Quoting: LoneStranger I work alot harder than many my friend! you said you need to work harder... i said i dont think you do need to work harder... alot of things get lost in translation Quoting: LoneStranger Hope you get it this time mee too

helloThreads: 37 Posts: 1,104 Joined: Dec 5, 06	Mar 23, 07, 17:36 / #
I think the bottom line is that most Poles living in Poland (70%) have it harder to make ends meet or just to lead a normal life than most people living in the "richer" countries. Get an average salary in Poland versus the UK or US and see how much less things you can afford for that. So the buying power of your money (the goods you can purchase for your average salary you make in the country you live) is the bottom line. Poland has still a lot to do to improve it.

RanjThreads: 27 Posts: 1,286 Joined: Sep 29, 06	Mar 23, 07, 17:47 / #
Quoting: hello So the buying power of your money (the goods you can purchase for your average salary you make in the country you live) is the bottom line. Poland has still a lot to do to improve it. I think Wroclaw said it best: Quoting: Wroclaw Is this part of the answer/problem. Polish people want to make money. Foreign [British] people want to make money. The Foreign folk have a headstart. Poland is just getting started.....economic success doesn't happen overnight for a country.....it takes several generations to build. Based on the work ethic of the Polish people (from what I've seen and heard), Poland will reach it sooner than later. The people just need to keep working towards their goals and never give up.

ArturSzastakThreads: 6 Posts: 828 Joined: Feb 16, 07	Mar 23, 07, 18:41 / #
Quoting: mickey20 money-money-money; must be funny; in a rich mans world ABBA. My mother has all their CDs Dzien dobre everyone

KowalskiThreads: 12 Posts: 619 Joined: Sep 13, 06	Mar 24, 07, 03:18 / #
^ You all guys and gals need to think in colors instead of this black or white duality scheme. Hell or Heaven, is it good in Poland or bad, better or worse, winner or looser. Remember: there is more colors then 2 and you would get better understandig. There is a well know polish in fact, long time dead philosopher Korzybski whe also discovered that MAP is Not TERRITORY. This mathematician dude is quoted all over the world with this simple sentence for some reason. I've been traveling around Poland quite a lot in recent 3 weeks and my impressions are that Poland is very diverse "in reality". Live in Gdynia or Sopot often resembles the upper middle class american neighberhood whereas traveling by train from Gdansk to Wejcherowo would make you understand workinging class trauma and how socialism ideas in 19th century were formed. In Plock you would see all town in stable lower midle class liveform, all living off PETROCHEMIA company and in Kutno you could experience stillness of despair where in order to safe energy everyone moves only to satisfy basic needs ..and Warsaw ...waiting for bus to come there I was thinking "this could be anywhere". Love to you all

RazZThreads: 2 Posts: 244 Joined: Feb 15, 07	Mar 24, 07, 03:52 / #
And I thought we here in Dubai are being tormented by the cost of living. Did you know UAE is in the TOP TEN most expensive countries to live in. since the Invasion of the Indian (now the Philippine), the market of Dubai has gone down, where we used to work for 6000 Dhs (1800 $) per month, the Indians and the Philippines took that job for 1000/ 2500 Dhs (270$ /680 $) per month. And now the gov. has increased the prices of everything from the housing rents to foods to gasoline. The UAE follows the rule of “what you earn here, you must spend that here in UAE it self.” You can save any money. Or sent back home. And they don’t even give citizenship to anyone even for people who were born in UAE. That the rule of ever gulf state.

muzyka	Mar 24, 07, 04:16 / #
Quoting: Kowalski You all guys and gals need to think in colors instead of this black or white duality scheme. Hell or Heaven, is it good in Poland or bad, better or worse, winner or looser. Remember: there is more colors then 2 and you would get better understandig. words of wisdom.......very nice

ola123	Mar 24, 07, 04:28 / #
Quoting: hello Right. But in the meantime I feel sorry for all "Olas" or "Polaks" and other young people who have no choice, but to stay in Poland and build it for the next generations. Just like their parents in the socialism era... We have a choice this time and we can leave Poland. I can leave like 2 millions of my mates if my situation wont improve Ill do it. Just waiting and watching whats happening and how are things changing. So far Im not happy with this what I see. Poland is not changing at all. Im failing to see my future here.

miranda	Mar 24, 07, 05:33 / #
Kowalski, as always your input into discussion was good one. I know parts of Poland or even poart of Polish cities (including Szczecin) where people live day by day. I also know parts of Szczecn where live is similar to high life. Poland is a diverified country, like any other(including UK), where there are parts with people who make probalby less than some Polish immigrants. I just wanted to open a disscussion and not to show Poland as a b&w country for that matter. My intention was to bring attention to issues people in Poland are struggling with, especially during the transition times. If the country has a large group of young people living for EU in order to seek a different life, or to simply make some money and return, there will be some consequences - good, bad and somewhere in between. Yet, sociology is about generelizng and that what I did in my first post.

miranda	Edited by: miranda Mar 24, 07, 05:40 / #
RaZZ, I know the situation of Philipino people working abroad and struggling a great deal in order to survive. Especially in the Middle Eastern countries they are treated like slaves and experiance a lot of hardship. Philipines was one of many countries who in order to improve their situation indebted their government to such and extend that now one of the major revenues the country lives off is the money of people who work abroad. I just hope that it's not gonna happen to Poland.

Rio	Mar 24, 07, 06:03 / #
Originally I am from Brazil, have been living in Poland for the last 3 years. Lived also in Japan(5 years), England(2 years) and Spain(1 year) and i must say that Poland is the best so far. If you haven't lived in a country for at least one year so can't say much about it in my opinon. YOu all propably thing that Japan is a rich country, its the MYTH... in village its the same situation as in Poland...and some of you say that Polish people are rascic...this is the biggest ******** i have heard...its just simple propaganda...why does noone say how japanese are rascic or korean? Have you ever tried to rent house or go to the bank in Japan(i would not say go to the club...it might be to much for some), try it... Ola, future? how old are you? To the age of 29 i worked liek an idiot...13/14 hours a day, everyday, tried to find work where i could earn the most...luckily i realised how stupid i was...Poland to live is not BAD( i noticed that Polish people always say that its bad, even if its good, the seek bad thnigs and so on)

rafikThreads: 21 Posts: 740 Joined: Jun 22, 06	Mar 24, 07, 06:16 / #
Quoting: ola123 2 millions of my mates you must be very popular person ola

ola123	Mar 24, 07, 06:19 / #
Yep, if youre a Pole youre my mate too .

rafikThreads: 21 Posts: 740 Joined: Jun 22, 06	Mar 24, 07, 06:28 / #
Quoting: ola123 Yep, if youre a Pole youre my mate too . i am, mate