Racist violence in Poland

Harry wrote:

The other two targets were the cook at the Chinese restaurant (who was employed by local mafia so nobody every messed with him), a tatar-former-USSR army officer who'd met a Slupsk girl at uni in Moscow and moved to Poland. That guy was ex-USSR special forces (and one of our students) and so nobody messed with him twice. The Chinese/Jamaican guy was third Dan at Karate and looked Chinese enough to have learned how to look after himself in Jamaica so nobody messed with him more than twice either, or more than once if our student Jani (the Tatar special forces guy) found out about it.

clickyclockThreads: 1 Posts: 4 Joined: Jan 6, 08	Jan 6, 08, 11:03 / #
I am being persuaded by my Polish spouse to move to Poland for some years. The problem is that I am brown skinned and so are our children. We would live in Warszawa if we moved. So I am concerned really about racist violence accross the country. I understand it is often perpetrated in poor parts of the country by men who are deeply frustrated with their economic circumstances and can only resort to hate and violence to keep them occupied. This is from viewing the following documentaries.. Can any Polish people please advice? Is this documentary exagerrated? Any general tips appreciated. Thanks so much!

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 6, 08, 11:11 / #
I don't know but foreigners on the forums day that Poles are racists.

scarbyirp	Jan 6, 08, 11:18 / #
Hiya and welcome Clickyclock, clickyclock wrote: I understand it is often perpetrated in poor parts of the country by men who are deeply frustrated with their economic circumstances and can only resort to hate and violence to keep them occupied Not sure I'm fully qualified to comment here but I think the same can be said for any part of the UK, i.e. Peckham, Burnley, Bradford, Leeds, Leicester. Probably no different. However, there are very few Black, Asian, mixed race people in the part of Poland I'm in. Warsaw have a higher percentage though probably no more that 1-2%

foxybrownThreads: 1 Posts: 6 Joined: Nov 30, 07	Jan 6, 08, 11:19 / #
hi clicky. Have you visited the place where you would be moving to? I'm sure that your spouse wouldn't want you and your children to be subjected to any kind of abuse.. Don't believe everything you see on the tv. Good luck

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,994 Joined: May 2, 07	Jan 6, 08, 14:35 / #
Hi Clicky, In Warsaw you would probably be OK. A very good female friend of mine is Japanese and she has never (in four years) experienced any violence. She very often has people staring at her (I notice that) and a couple of times has had people making comments but no serious problems. Compare that to a Jamaican/Chinese male friend of mine in Slupsk (small-city northern Poland) who would have problems (usually physical) every night. If I was more obviously non-white (my African mother and Indian grandmother/grandfather really do not show), I'd be OK about living in big city Poland (well, certain big cities anyway) but not in small-city Poland.

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 6, 08, 15:03 / #
Harry wrote: Compare that to a Jamaican/Chinese male friend of mine in Slupsk (small-city northern Poland) who would have problems (usually physical) every night. If dude goes out every night then It's not surprising that he has problems.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Jan 6, 08, 15:04 / #
Grzegorz_ wrote: If dude goes out every night then It's not surprising that he has problems. it isnt funy any more.

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 6, 08, 15:11 / #
What ? Do you go out every night ?

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,994 Joined: May 2, 07	Jan 6, 08, 15:19 / #
Grzegorz_ wrote: If dude goes out every night then It's not surprising that he has problems. OK, let me put it this way for you: every night that the evil non-white Peace Corps-type volunteer tried to leave his secure housing, some Polish bigot tried to kick him senseless. Happy now that I've pointed out that so many of your countrymen are racist bigots?

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Jan 6, 08, 15:21 / #
Harry wrote: I've pointed out that so many of your countrymen are racist bigots? or he was only one black person in 20 000 people town, so he was only one who could be target of racist violence.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,994 Joined: May 2, 07	Jan 6, 08, 15:42 / #
foxybrown wrote: Grzegorz, so your advice to clicky would be what? I'd imagine that his advice would be something along the lines of "Don't be a disgrace to your race. White power all the time." But then he's a bigot from the Hitler-era....

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,994 Joined: May 2, 07	Jan 6, 08, 15:55 / #
Lukasz wrote: Last time I have heard about Chinese people who preffer to live in Poland than in Russia (mafia) and Germany (rasism) so there are different opinions. Last I heard you may be right. I was talking about what I saw with my own eyes 12 years ago.

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,365 Joined: Aug 15, 07	Jan 7, 08, 06:20 / #
Harry wrote: Gee, let's see, somebody who has never spoken to the guy breaks a beer bottle over the bar and says "I want a word with that yellow bastard", I wonder if that could be racism or not. **** you bigot. Just wondering if it might be something else than racism after all. If word had gotten out that this Chinese guy was a tough fighter and nobody messed with him twice, it is more than probable that a certain type of Polish guy could not pass him by for obviously machismo reasons ;-) My boyfriend, who is Polish and as fair-haired and blue-eyed and white-skinned as they come, grew up in Toruń and had to fight strangers almost every day of his adolescence and young adulthood. The reason? He is very tall and very strong, so almost every other guy his age in the neighbourhood wanted to check him out, see if he was as tough as he looked. Once word got around that he fought back, and was a formidable opponent, other guys got interested in the fun as well. I see a very strong parallel to your story here. If there is a newcomer in town who looks dangerous, guys are just gonna get curious. I am not at all sure that his skin colour has got a lot to do with it, except make him more easily identifiable (as the "yellow guy").

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,994 Joined: May 2, 07	Jan 8, 08, 13:16 / #
Grzegorz_ wrote: Look creature, I should smash you like a bug but I am obviously too sophisticated and cultured for that, No, what you mean is that you are too much of a coward to do anything unless you have your ten skinhead friends to back you up. Racists are always cowards, as you so nicely prove.

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 6, 08, 15:28 / #
Harry wrote: Happy now that I've pointed out that so many of your countrymen are racist bigots? Or maybe you or your "Jamaican/Chinese" buddy are racist bigots blaming all their problems on "racism" ?

MacduffThreads: 13 Posts: 86 Joined: Oct 30, 07	Jan 6, 08, 15:29 / #
Poland is a very good place to be but if your colour of skin is not white then unfortunately this is where a majority of Polish people let them selves down. I could not recomend any non white guy yo live in Poland, as they realy do in most cases that I have personaly seen get a hard time. Sorry if this offends any one (It is not meant to) but I can only give my own personal experiance of living in Poland.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,994 Joined: May 2, 07	Edited by: Harry Jan 6, 08, 15:35 / #
Lukasz wrote: or he was only one black person in 20 000 people town, so he was only one who could be target of racist violence. Actually he was one of three targets in a town of 130,000. The other two targets were the cook at the Chinese restaurant (who was employed by local mafia so nobody every messed with him), a tatar-former-USSR army officer who'd met a Slupsk girl at uni in Moscow and moved to Poland. That guy was ex-USSR special forces (and one of our students) and so nobody messed with him twice. The Chinese/Jamaican guy was third Dan at Karate and looked Chinese enough to have learned how to look after himself in Jamaica so nobody messed with him more than twice either, or more than once if our student Jani (the Tatar special forces guy) found out about it. Grzegorz_ wrote: Or maybe you or your "Jamaican/Chinese" buddy are racist bigots blaming all their problems on "racism" ? Gee, let's see, somebody who has never spoken to the guy breaks a beer bottle over the bar and says "I want a word with that yellow bastard", I wonder if that could be racism or not. **** you bigot.

foxybrownThreads: 1 Posts: 6 Joined: Nov 30, 07	Jan 6, 08, 15:40 / #
Grzegorz, so your advice to clicky would be what?

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Jan 6, 08, 15:45 / #
Harry wrote: Chinese enough to have learned how to look Last time I have heard about Chinese people who preffer to live in Poland than in Russia (mafia) and Germany (rasism) so there are different opinions. Chinese society increase very sharply in Poland so there are different opinions, but I will agree that for poeple with other than white race the best place to live is big town or small vilage

clickyclockThreads: 1 Posts: 4 Joined: Jan 6, 08	Jan 6, 08, 16:18 / #
Thanks for your inputs guys. "Have you visited the place where you would be moving to? I'm sure that your spouse wouldn't want you and your children to be subjected to any kind of abuse" Foxy - yes I have in Warszawa and a few other cities (Posnan, Gdansk, Wroclaw, Krakow, Szceczin) but not for long enough to know how things would be living there permanently and certainly no idea what it would be like for my 2 daughters.. I had soem monkey chats directed my way in Wroclaw once and was called a terrorist on a train another time, but no problems elsewhere although I did feel it was only a matter of time.. I have 1 black friend who studied in Krakow and Warsawa who swore that he never had any problems and was full of praise of Poland although he did mention an African guy who happened to walk past some football fans by mistake and was beaten so badly he was in hospital for 7 months. Another mixed race friend who grew up half Polish in Krakow and also said he never had any problems. Another black friend who got attacked by a gang of guys at club and had to call as many other non whites he new to come and back him up when he left the club (result was a big fight)... I must say the majority of Poles I met, once I got to know them, where all very sweet. Women definately but men too.. Even the ones who seem so full of hate seem to put on this show for their friends and to appear macho and important.. Harry, sorry to hear about all the problems you had. I lived in the states for many years so can imagine the shock. I hope a lot of good experiences with the majority though despite the actions of this minority.

foxybrownThreads: 1 Posts: 6 Joined: Nov 30, 07	Jan 6, 08, 16:41 / #
Click. I think that there is a minority that will always prejudge. A lack of awareness or just sheer ignorance who knows. I have never been to Poland (yet) but you can go some places in the uk and us and experience hostility because of your skin colour.. Why does your wife want to move back if you don't mind me asking?

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Edited by: Grzegorz_ Jan 8, 08, 13:08 / #
Harry wrote: **** you bigot. Look creature, I should smash you like a bug but I am obviously too sophisticated and cultured for that, so instead of that I will offer you a pieace of wisdom... Many "people of colour" have tendencies to blame everything on racism, even a blind man should see that and in this case I could bet that a Japanese girl wouldn't have any serious problems in Słupsk and your Chinese/Jamaican butt buddy would still have problems in Warsaw, so next time think twice before you make thousands of people living in Słupsk look like some backward peasants, damn bigot. foxybrown wrote: Grzegorz, so your advice to clicky would be what? He should come here, spend a few weeks and then make a decision. I can't answer his question, before I would have to paint myself, get foreign accent and walk like that for months and obviosly I'm not going to do that. Harry wrote: The other two targets were the cook at the Chinese restaurant (who was employed by local mafia so nobody every messed with him), a tatar-former-USSR army officer who'd met a Slupsk girl at uni in Moscow and moved to Poland. That guy was ex-USSR special forces (and one of our students) and so nobody messed with him twice. The Chinese/Jamaican guy was third Dan at Karate and looked Chinese enough to have learned how to look after himself in Jamaica so nobody messed with him more than twice either, or more than once if our student Jani (the Tatar special forces guy) found out about it. And then came Kunta Kinte...

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Jan 8, 08, 13:13 / #
Grzegorz_ wrote: I am obviously too sophisticated and cultured for that yup, you just pee and spit on people classy

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 8, 08, 13:16 / #
BubbaWoo wrote: you just pee and spit on people Who told you that ?

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Jan 8, 08, 13:18 / #
Grzegorz_ wrote: Who told you that ? you confessed on this very forum

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Edited by: Grzegorz_ Jan 8, 08, 13:19 / #
Check under your bed, I'm sure that a bad racist is hidding over there... yawn... BubbaWoo wrote: you confessed on this very forum I wasn't serious.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Jan 8, 08, 13:22 / #
Grzegorz_ wrote: I wasn't serious. if you say so

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 8, 08, 13:52 / #
There is a tendency to get over defensive here. I'm glad I'm white in Poland, I can tell u that much. Football matches bring out the most frustrated critters. There is an undercurrent of xenophobia here, it cannot be denied. There's an ignorance about Asian people, it's really embarrassing. This is not solely confined to Poland. Very primitive, based on lack of understanding

foxybrownThreads: 1 Posts: 6 Joined: Nov 30, 07	Jan 8, 08, 14:47 / #
grzegorz. And what would you know about the topic of people of colour having 'tendencies' to blame things on racism. Are you saying it does not happen?

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Edited by: isthatu Jan 8, 08, 15:30 / #
of course not,only Poles can be legitimate victims of rascism in his eyes...everyone else is just a moaning third worlder who probably asked for it........ For a quick analogy, I would say Poland ,with regards to rascism ,is about on a par with Britain in the 1970s, yes there are skinhead gangs but there are also plenty of enlightened people who will,at the most ask a few silly questions but generally not have the attitude sometimes displayed on this forum. The only problem is,in Britain,when the rascism was bad with NF attacks etc they,the fascists ,had more targets than they do at the min in Poland.