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Racist violence in Poland

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negrolad	Jan 19, 08, 05:58 / #
You guys should understand that I'm not saying anything mean about Poland. I moved here after all. I think Poland is an interesting place, especially because I like history, and Poland has an interesting history. The town I'm in now, called Zamosc, is a very interesting example of a renaissance city, founded as it was during the renaissance, by Jan Zamoyski, who is also an interesting historical figure. I like to learn more about the may 3rd constitution and about history from that time on. The only issue is racial attitudes, and it's a real issue for non polish tourists and immigrants, even though most Polish citizens are really warm, accommodating, and welcoming. So far my experiences have been really good, but I've only been here a few days. So there's no need to get defensive, especially when people are just relaying information about the country.

jones101Threads: 1 Posts: 554 Joined: Jan 14, 08	Jan 19, 08, 06:19 / #
That the whole point negrolad...they don't think there is anything wrong with their attitudes because it is so normal here. See how defensive they get rather than admitting "yeah it can be a bit racist here and we think it is wrong and are trying to change it"....instead they jump on anyone that says anything critical of Poland. They attack with childish insults and sarcasm. You saw the reply "so what"...that is what you are up against here. It is the single most problematic thing about Poland from my perspective...they cannot admit their shortcomings and refuse to address them...this is not isolated to Poland of course as several countries are like this...but it is a problem nonetheless. Sure there are good things about the culture and people but that is not the topic here. Just beware that people like those posting are out there in huge numbers.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Jan 19, 08, 06:23 / #
What you may find is that people have the same prejudices as they do around the world,the difference being where as in the "west" people tend to keep their grubby attitudes to themselves out of shame or fear of arrest/a kicking in Poland you will find that the Archie bunker types that pop up here have no one telling them to shut up. Its a glaring issue,when we have a rascist UK troll all the brits will gang up and haze them,a rascist Polish troll and a thunderous silence from his countrymen.........

jones101Threads: 1 Posts: 554 Joined: Jan 14, 08	Edited by: jones101 Jan 19, 08, 06:34 / #
And in large that is because they agree and don't see it as a problem...if they did they would say something. God knows Poles don't have a problem speaking up about anything else....hell I have seen more people here criticize a total stranger for something than anywhere else (I am talking a Pole yelling at another Pole). If they are truly bothered by a behavior they will not keep quiet. This is further proof the attitude is pervasive and deep.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Jan 19, 08, 07:10 / #
Being told off for daring to speak in English on a Warsaw tram kinda gave that away to me. I was the one being rude for the little biddie not being able to eavesdrop :)but thats another topic :)

jones101Threads: 1 Posts: 554 Joined: Jan 14, 08	Edited by: jones101 Jan 19, 08, 07:20 / #
Yeah I often hear people slagging me in Polish if I am on the phone in English. It is funny to watch their eyes bug when you finish and say something to them in Polish. They also give my gf a hard time if we happen to speak together in English...she was actually yelled at by a woman for not speaking Polish...she made me proud and told her to "p!@s off" and mind her own business in English! She and I speak different additional languages but we need to learn a common one so we can speak freely amongst the nosy gits.

negrolad	Jan 19, 08, 07:30 / #
Don't many polish people speak english already? I'm here to teach english and it seems that such classes are really popular. I had a wealthy investor have lunch with me to see what my english was like. He wants me to teach english to the kindergarteners in the school he's financing, even though I have no teaching experience and no college degree. English must be a hot commodity here.

jones101Threads: 1 Posts: 554 Joined: Jan 14, 08	Edited by: jones101 Jan 19, 08, 07:37 / #
Several people do speak English...but not most...normally professionals and youger students. The average person only speaks Polish and MAYBE a smattering of Russian depending on how old they are and if they paid attention in school. Poles are realizing they NEED English to function in the international world so you are correct it is a hot commodity. Teaching young kids can be fun but it gets to be a handful...you know how young ones are to control. Don't worry about your training...as long as you can speak properly and have the smarts to look things up you will do fine...and if you find you don't like it then move on. Just don't trust anything your employer tells you unless you get it in writing in English. They commonly play games with pay, papers and schedules. And don't let them pay you 20zl per hour or tell you you need to work for free during probation...that is utter nonsense and they try that to take advantage of desperate workers. Polish workers are used to being pushed around and the bosses expect you to fall in line as well. Don't accept less than 40-50zl per hour to start and ask for more regardless...if they want you they will pay...sometimes you just have to state your price and walk away. They will call you soon after they give the impression that they are in charge by waiting a bit. Chain of command here is taken much more seriously than in the West...egos drive decisions regularly.

PuzzlerThreads: 11 Posts: 1,613 Joined: Mar 21, 07	Jan 19, 08, 09:34 / #
jones101 wrote: Yeah I often hear people slagging me in Polish if I am on the phone in English - And I think you're making it up, pal. I am an English speaker myself (also speaking, with an accent, Polish), and I have never-ever encountered such bahaviour of the Poles. If there was any animosity, it was the same as e.g. in UK, when people speak Polish and others feel uneasy about it. And the sanctions, institutional and social, against speaking Polish in UK, e.g. England, are incomparably worse than in Poland (where they are practcally nonexistent). And in UK it is frequent that Polish people are forbidden by employers to talk in Polish to each other, or are badmouthed by non-Polish employees for speaking Polish. In Germany it's even worse. I think you are a liar when you suggest Poles have a phobia against speaking in English. Now, judging from your posts, you're not a nice person at all, and quite prejudiced against Poles, even though living n Poland. Therefore I won't be surprised if you get yours from them eventually. Will you scream about Polish racism then? What an arrogance to act in a foreign country like you do. Who do you think we Poles are? Dirt at your smelly feet? Hm, if Poland is such a problem for you, why don't you leave for a better land? Why don't you go e.g. to UK? Leave my country, please, along with all the other nasty creeps like yourself. isthatu wrote: Being told off for daring to speak in English on a Warsaw tram kinda gave that away to me. I was the one being rude for the little biddie not being able to eavesdrop :)but thats another topic :) - So isthatu has joined the slanderous Polonophobic choir too? Mobbing up together against Poles? Go ahead and do it, all of you; we'll manage to defend ourselves against your lies and hate. By the way, I sort of expected such a reaction from isthatu eventually. Brought up on the Cold War anti-Polish propaganda, eh? :)

jones101Threads: 1 Posts: 554 Joined: Jan 14, 08	Edited by: jones101 Jan 19, 08, 09:46 / #
See you are creating your own reality My Puzzling friend. I treat people here very well as I do every place I go and live. You don't want to believe what I say is true so you lash out against it. I truly don't care if you believe what I hear people say or not...it makes it no less real. You can't imagine ANYTHING is not perfect about Poland and you say anyone that isn't singing the national anthem and wearing a FC Poland scarf is a traitor. I never once said anything about Poles being 'dirt on my smelly feet' but you would love that wouldn't you? That is what you WANT me to be saying so you can attack it. I plan to leave this place as soon as it is convenient and I do not need/want or care about your permission or encouragement. But...I will be sure to tell the Border Guards you gave me permission to cross ;) And don't worry I am white so when I have a child with my Polish girlfriend it won't visibly pollute your elite bloodline :)))) If you had any balls at all (which I know you don't) you would go say all these things to a group of WWII veterans and see if they agree with you (which they won't). But I know you are just like most mouthy guys I meet here...all talk and beer muscles.

PuzzlerThreads: 11 Posts: 1,613 Joined: Mar 21, 07	Edited by: Puzzler Jan 19, 08, 09:59 / #
jones101 wrote: You can't imagine ANYTHING is not perfect about Poland and you say anyone that isn't singing the national anthem and wearing a FC Poland scarf is a traitor - Where do I say the things you're alleging I do, and what proof you have to state the stuff about what I allegedly can't imagine? jones101 wrote: And don't worry I am white so when I have a child with my Polish girlfriend it won't visibly pollute your elite bloodline :)))) - Why would you imply I worry about those things? Give your grounds for your belief. And why do you associate with me, a Pole, the German Nazi concept of 'polluting one's bloodline'? Don't you think it more properly ought to be associated with you? After all, you seem to as prejudiced towards us Poles, as German Nazis were.

jones101Threads: 1 Posts: 554 Joined: Jan 14, 08	Jan 19, 08, 10:02 / #
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

miranda	Edited by: miranda Jan 19, 08, 10:10 / #
jones101 wrote: you are just like most mouthy guys I meet here...all talk and beer muscles. it is called NATO- No Action Talk Only:), he, he....

PuzzlerThreads: 11 Posts: 1,613 Joined: Mar 21, 07	Edited by: Puzzler Jan 19, 08, 10:22 / #
miranda wrote: it is called NATO- No Action Talk Only:), - Hello, miranda. As usual backing up Polonophobes? An 'effectual' action indeed.... By the way, what's new about your 'action' (i.e. talk) in the Dziekanski case? Have they arrested the murderers or even made their names public? Have they showed the Dziekanski story truthfully in the Canadian media? What have you accomplished, ye little funny sophistress from Canada? :) jones101 wrote: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz - Where he is cornered, he starts to pour ridcule on his opponent. I call it a skunk rhetoric. :)

jones101Threads: 1 Posts: 554 Joined: Jan 14, 08	Edited by: jones101 Jan 19, 08, 10:25 / #
Miranda please take his dictionary away...his attempt to use English vocabulary to make his speech sound intelligent is so transparent and ineffective. You call it cornered Puzzler...I call it not worth the effort...you are a lost cause. If you wish to get a shirt made that says "I won an internet argument!!" then be my guest. Just make sure it isn't too tight.

miranda	Edited by: miranda Jan 19, 08, 10:28 / #
Puzzler wrote: As usual backing up Polonophobes? me, never;) Puzzler wrote: By the way, what's new about your 'action' (i.e. talk) in the Dziekanski case? well, as I mentioned earlier, I have spoken to the MP and attended the demonstration (which most Polish didn't and I am not even Polish), so I think I have fulfilled my duty as a Polish citizen better than most people. The results of the investigation will be available to the public in May, if I am not mistaken - I will definately let you know what the outcome is. Puzzler wrote: What have you accomplished, ye little funny sophistress from Canada? I take it as a compliment:). I am not little, I am 5.6:). PS. did you have good X-mas and what are you up to lately?

PuzzlerThreads: 11 Posts: 1,613 Joined: Mar 21, 07	Jan 19, 08, 10:32 / #
jones101 wrote: his attempt to use English vocabulary to make his speech sound intelligent is so transparent and ineffective - Do you assert my use of English vocabulary makes my speech sound not intelligent? Why would you assert so? Give proof. Aha, so now the cornered-up bigot tries to put down his opponent by belittling the lattert's language ability, in order to divert attention from the subject of the conversation and the bigot's having been cornered. :)

miranda	Edited by: miranda Jan 19, 08, 10:35 / #
jones101 wrote: "I won an internet argument!!" I think that both Puzzie and Jones would deserve one eventually - make sure it will be signed by PF mods too - I am in too good of a mood today to take anything seriously;). you both have very strong personalities boys:) and I admit that it is a turn on;)

jones101Threads: 1 Posts: 554 Joined: Jan 14, 08	Edited by: jones101 Jan 19, 08, 10:38 / #
I think he likes to read his own posts....probably prints them off and papers his walls with them. This will be followed with a post by Puzzler saying "PROVE IT...PROVE I PAPER MY WALLS WITH PRINTED POSTS!!! PROVE IT!!" Puzzler...if nothing else you have been good for a laugh mate. You are by far one of the most entertaining trolls I have seen online in ages...thanks!!

PuzzlerThreads: 11 Posts: 1,613 Joined: Mar 21, 07	Edited by: Puzzler Jan 19, 08, 10:45 / #
miranda wrote: and I am not even Polish - You aren't Polish? I thought you mentioned somewhere you were Polish. Did you lie? Or is it safer in Canada to admit one is any other nationality, e.g. Ukrainian, than Polish? miranda wrote: I have spoken to the MP - So it was the case of 'NATO' after all? :) miranda wrote: and attended the demonstration - A very effectual action indeed! So it's enough to go to a demonstration to be regarded by you as JANT - JUST ACTION NO TALK? By the way, was the demonstraton all silent, or did you talk a bit...? miranda wrote: The results of the investigation will be available to the public in May, if I am not mistaken - Wow, you've accomplished so much by your pure action! - Maybe the results of the investigation will be made public in May! What a great accomplishment! And it's all thanks to your talking to a Canadian MP and attending - silent? - demonstration! :))) As for my Xmas, it was a busy drinking time for me. How about you? Do you celebrate Catholic Xmas or the Orthodox ones? ;) miranda wrote: make sure it will be signed by PF mods too - I am in too good of a mood today to take anything seriously;). - You mean you are now a moderator or one of those who run this forum?

miranda	Jan 19, 08, 10:56 / #
Puzzler wrote: Or is it safer in Canada to admit one is any other nationality, e.g. Ukrainian, than Polish? it is safe to go either way would presume, but I am Ukrainian with a Polish citizenship, so this is who I am. Puzzler wrote: - So it was the case of 'NATO' after all? :) well, yes and no. I did everything I could, so the rest is up to the government. Puzzler wrote: - A very effectual action indeed! So it's enough to go to a demonstration to be regarded by you as JANT - JUST ACTION NO TALK? people who attend demostration support the cause by physically being there, some action is better than none. JANT - very funny. Puzzler wrote: By the way, was the demonstraton all silent, or did you talk a bit...? I didn't talk but I listened Puzz. Puzzler wrote: Maybe the results of the investigation will be made public in May! They will be made public in May 2008. Puzzler wrote: What a great accomplishment! I am proud of attending - it was really cold and most people stayed at home. Puzzler wrote: And it's all thanks to your talking to a Canadian MP and attending - silent? - demonstration! she spoke, so I didn't need to - I am not a politician:) Puzzler wrote: Do you celebrate Catholic Xmas or the Orthodox ones? a bit of both - the Orthodox I spend on the plane on my way from visiting my father in Poland:). I am glad you took care of your liver at X-mas;)

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 19, 08, 10:59 / #
miranda wrote: but I am Ukrainian with a Polish citizenship UPA...

miranda	Edited by: miranda Jan 19, 08, 11:01 / #
Grzegorz_ wrote: UPA... that is correct:) - I have alreay mentioned it and wanted to meet for a drink with you in Szczecin an you refused - what a shame:O

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 19, 08, 11:02 / #
Bad bad...

miranda	Jan 19, 08, 11:03 / #
Grzegorz_ wrote: Bad bad... aha......

PuzzlerThreads: 11 Posts: 1,613 Joined: Mar 21, 07	Jan 19, 08, 11:04 / #
miranda wrote: it is safe to go either way would presume, but I am Ukrainian with a Polish citizenship, so this is who I am. - Wow, so suddenly you are not Polish, or half-Polish, but 'Ukrainian with a Polish citizenship'? Do you intend to keep this citizenship, or get rid of it? Do you have a Ukranian and Canadian ctizenship as well? :)

miranda	Edited by: miranda Jan 19, 08, 11:08 / #
Puzzler wrote: - Wow, so suddenly you are not Polish, or half-Polish, but 'Ukrainian with a Polish citizenship'? Do you intend to keep this citizenship, or get rid of it? Do you have a Ukranian and Canadian ctizenship as well?:) nothing sudden about it. I was always claiming that I am Ukrainian. I have both Polish and Canadian citizenship right now. I am not intending to get rid of Polish citizenship. As for getting the Ukrainian one - I have have no need for it right now. Who knows what will happen in the future;) I think I mentioned my cultural roots before.

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 19, 08, 11:11 / #
miranda wrote: aha...... Yes...

PuzzlerThreads: 11 Posts: 1,613 Joined: Mar 21, 07	Jan 19, 08, 11:15 / #
miranda wrote: I was always claiming that I am Ukrainian. I have both Polish and Canadian citizenship right now. - Nope. I rermember your post where you said you were half-Polish or something of this sort. In any case, you suggested you were more Polish than Ukrainian, and you hid the Ukrainian nationality thing. But I understand you: you live in Canada and being Ukrainian is much easier and respectful than being Polish there. Therefore, you've changed your skin like many of your ilk did before you. Not that I personally am sad about it - good riddance! :)

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 19, 08, 11:23 / #
miranda wrote: wanted to meet for a drink with you in Szczecin I haven't been ready yet... maybe next time...

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