Where did the stereotype of Polish people being stupid come from?

Oh come on, stop picking on Butty, it's natural that neighbouring countries will have negative (slightly offensive / amusing) stereotypes...Blimey, we have the Englishman, Irishman and Scotman jokes...Englishman is always a bit pompus (pompus), Irishman always a bit thick (maybe slightly nieve) and Scotsman always a bit stingey (careful)...They are only jokes, nothing more...

Some are, some aren't. But every Polish girl I've worked with has been/is a flirt, even the ones that are taken for.

hmmm, but I would argue that today's jokes have a history behind them, both in England's history and the "Pollack" slurs. And there was nothing benign about the German history and Slavs:

War and Genocide excerpt, Anti-Slavic Attitudes, Page 19:

"Developments in the early 20th Century added new dimensions to German notions of superiority over the Slavs. After WW1, the first time since the 1700s, an independent Polish nation was established. Until the war, territories in which many Polish people lived had been ruled by the German, Austro-Hungarian, and Russian Empires. With the defeat of Germany and the collapse of the Habsburg empire in Austria-Hungary in 1918, the way was cleared for the creation of an independent Polish state. Many Germans resented this new neighbor and the loss of territories formerly under German control to Polish rule."

Living only in the USA, all I have is my own preceptions of where the dumb Pollack idea came from. What Polonius3 said rings most true for me. When I went to university, I was quite surprised to find a book in the university library that was a compilation of letters written by Polish peasants in America to their families back home. It was a sociology study. After a series of different family's letters, the professor wrote an analysis of what was going on. Why the peasant reacted as he did.

So, unfortunately, for perceptions of Poland, it was not the intellectuals that comprised the biggest movements to the USA. It was the poor and uneducated. People who only knew the mores of the villages. It was very bewildering to be in the giants cities of New York, Chicago and suddenly find yourself being trained to work factories. Suddenly see so many things that violated simple village life. Many found that they had no guide to figure out how to behave. Too many choices. Too many people believing different things than what you were taught. The rules of the village did not work in the cities. People drank, they felt disillusioned, and being uneducated, made a bad impression.

Some of the letters I read were comical. I don't have the book on hand. But when I began reading them, I got the impression that this is where the dumb jokes began.

I had to laugh at the ignorance of some Americans when my then Polish boyfriend came to live with me in the USA. He did not have a work visa and got a job under-the-table doing roofing. He was in a masters program for education back home, and was highly intelligent, versed in philosophy and science. Never did any manual labor in his life. And from the high school drop out roofers what did he get? Yep...dumb Pollack jokes.

Very frustrating situation to be in. And sometimes upsetting to me when I tell people I am half Polish and get the Polish jokes. Sometimes I tell one back for whatever ethnicity they are, sometimes I point out something brilliant about Poland that they did not know. Sometimes, if it is funny, I just laugh in good nature.

I do take the time at work to tell people of my interest in my background and all about my trips to Poland. All about the things that people do not know about the Poland of today. All about the bravery of Poles and how they helped this country in its war for independence when it was itself a partitioned country. I would say, that the stereotypes will moderate in time. As with most groups that came to the USA, the jokes continue, but in a more lighthearted way that shows no one really believes them.

Yes, good post Softsong, and I have to agree that Polonious3 provides a good explanation for contemporary Pollack jokes in the U.S.:

But, my point was that the history goes much further back, and that there were peasants of all sorts that came over, but for some reason only Pollacks got the stupid label, which persist until modern times. I think it was a combination with a history that runs deep.

Where did the stereotype of Polish people being stupid come from?

this dont help to much ,,,,,,,,,,,POLE DRIVES WRONG WAY ON UK MOTORWAY

Some reasons I can think for polish jokes.
1.Poles are white,so jokes seem not racist
2.Polish superiority in appearance which is annoying for local folks
3.That Poles stick to their own and do not accept foreign cultures.
4.The romantism of Poles which is regarded as not down the earth and unpractical
5.The stubborness and the way Poles accept things as granted though they complain about them.So they tend to be considered not adjusted and because they do not seem to suffer,they seem annoying.And because they are very white,noone can feel good by their presence.

Sorry, but that is also just another opinion!

I could also state "the sky has a nice shade of green today" and publish a book about it that doesn't make it true.

Show me some PROOF for such attitudes. If it was so widespread it shouldn't be hard.
There must me lot's of caricatures, poster, funny books, movies or else...
If a german shows disrespect to a perceived chaotic "polish economy" is that anti-slavic??? Come oooon!

Poles disrespect Russians for this and for that...are they anti-slavic???
And the Germans never hated or disrespected the Russians in the same way the Poles do. Russian culture like music, the famous operas, literature had always a high standing. Thousands of farmers came as they were invited to settle there.

Germans hated Bolschevism...is that an anti-slavic attitude???


Only natural, won't you think?

And where do you make the bridge to the polish jokes???

living in public toilets, eating swans and ******* vacum cleaners what are these crazy poles goin to do next

No love, I think you are confusing your unsubstantiated opinion with that of substantiated and referenced research. The book quoted above has about 6 pages of cited sources from prior published research, as well as "first hand accounts from perpetrators, victims, and eyewitnesses". There are also other sources in Wiki, in addition to YOUR favorite Davies who likes to blame it all on America.

There are countless sources, because this is a matter of history, not your defensive opinions. Here's another:

Alan Dundes: A Study of Ethnic Slurs, The Jew and the Pollack in the United States: 1971. But unfortunately, I can only find it on JSTOR, and can't post it here.

Amongst other things, the renowned folklore anthropologist from Berkeley talked about the roots of Pollack jokes:

"The folklore authority Alan Dundes, however, points out that a traditional stereotype of Poles in Germany portrayed them as stupid and dirty, and that German immigrants probably brought this stereotype with them to the Midwest. The Nazis encouraged this, and one elderly German immigrant recalled a typical joke from her childhood during the Nazi period: 'How do you catch a Pole? By slamming the toliet lid on his head while he's taking a drink of water.'"

Punchlines By Leon Rappoport, Page 33.

And remember, the Poles were partitioned, occupied and oppressed by both the Russians and Germans, so their vitriol stems from the other side of history, and for different reasons.

I'm sorry...but you are confusing things here.

To conclude from a polish joke (at times of nationalist tensions between our people no less) a widespread, kind of inbred, anti-slavic attitude is a gap only Poles can do! :)

Would you call Poles making fun of/insult Germans having an anti-germanic/anti-western attitude?

ShelleyS got it right, neighbours are the worst jokers about each other, stemming from long, seldom totally peaceful histories. That's the case the world over!

Polish/german jokes/prejudices are nothing special...but to call them anti-slavic is so over the top and easily destroyed when you take off your polish blinkers!

Bratty joke:

Right, I've provided substantiated research links that yield numerous other research links for days and you can only continue to throw food on the wall with your reactionary, politics of denial sans the facts.

I'm done here. Yawn. I feel like I'm talking to the Fox News Channel.

Just think about when your leaving:
Would you call an...say...american or french...when they tell polish jokes anti-slavic!

See...


"Germans hated slavs forever" is nothing of that kind, sorry!

Bring me the polish equivalent to "Jud Süss" and you might have a point, but not before!

We dont slag off the Poles and we don't call them Pollacks, that's an American thing.


The Germans thought they were superior to everyone, they us Island Monkeys :) Does it bother me? Not in the slightest ;0)


Drive down motorways the wrong way or **** on live railway lines? Hmmm, did someone say that Poles are a bit stupid, where the hell did they get that notion from ;0)

Apparently it's also an English thing. Or maybe British? I'm really not sure, either way, it's ingrained in our culture.

Collective memory and European identity By Klaus Eder, Willfried Spohn

hsozkult.geschichte.hu-berlin.de/rezensionen/id=384

. J. Kulczycki: Foreign Worker and German Labor Movement

added: unattributable.com/2009/03/british-racists-just-as-cretinou s-uninformed-as-other-racists/

See? Your normal, everyday xenophobia! No inbred anti-slavic racism...

Once around 600.000 Poles came into the ruhr territory....at one time every third there was a Pole...what a racism!


ROfl Suuuuuuuuuure...it's always only the Germans!
The Poles are innocent and squeaky clean...:)


Now that sounds mightily familiar to me...some Poles love to do this!

...wait...was that just a racist anti-slavic remark by me??? Bad Bratwurst boy!

Well, it's a balanced article, and I have no problem with balanced and honest research, which is why I posted it, unlike your comments. Afterall, I AM THE ONE posting sources here. However, the reader's analytical objectivity of Kulczycki's tendency to interpret ANY or ALL forms does not rule out the very real and acknowledged forms of discrimination which were also previously and duly noted in this paper and others, which not surprisingly, you conveniently overlooked, lol.

added: But, hey - I'm glad to see you're reading ;)

No, you don't!

You cite authors who throw around the same opinions like you do.
And sorry...a polish joke is no PROOF of german inbred anti-slavic attitude. That is just crap!
To undermine such a statement you need the real stuff...images, movies, posters etc. THAT would be SOURCES!

Millions of Poles immigrated to Germany during the last centuries...how logical is your opinion of an inbred anti-polish/anti-slavic hate by the Germans?

And you didn't answer my other question: Would you accuse americans or french who tell polish jokes of inborn anti-slavic racism?

What about the English who are grumpy about the polish laborers right now. I would bet you could hear the same in the Ruhrgebiet as so many Poles came to work.

Does that mean the English as a people now hate all Slavs? And that they did so for centuries now???

Fact is that Polands biggest treasure was for centuries their workers! And they exported them into alot of countries.
And of course friction with the natives occured (and still occur), a natural thing. The same thing will happen should non-polish worker immigrate in big numbers to Poland!

There you have your reason for prejudices or even jokes...not "inbred anti-slavic hate"...please!

Lol, that was definitely worth a good laugh.


I never said any bigotry was "inborn", but historic in origin or normative. Please note the title of this thread: "Where did the stereotype of Polish People being stupid COME FROM?

And to all, a good night.

Let me in...wanna laugh too!


And?
Did I miss somehow the proof about the "germaness" of the polish jokes?

wik.ed.uiuc.edu/index.php/Polish_American_are_unintelligent_and_uneducated


Anti-slavic racists them Americans, I tell ya


Ooopsie:


These anti-slavic Poles!!!

well, all I can say is, you haven't met too many Polish girls. Some of them flirt some don't just like any other girls. As far as the looks, I believe Polish girls are looking OK but not all of them are stunning. I agree to maybe about 10-15%.

Ive never come across it in this country...maybe heard the odd "blood poles" but never "bloody pollacks".... ;0)

well, I've met quite a few Brits and I've heard them saying it but then again what the hell, any country you go you hear people bi*ching at some other nationalities, who cares. All I can say is take it as a joke.

Already mentioned this above. That is from the book by Christie Davies, Mirth of Nations. He is basically one of the only scholars to purport that opinon, and on closer inspection of his book one understands why: it needed to fit into his thesis that self-directed (and in my opinion self-congratulatory) laughter is a sign of intelligence, in his words as exemplified by the Scots, the English, Jews, et al. But most importantly, he makes a distinction between ethnic jokes and ethnic slurs.

"Throughout the book, a main theme is Davies's demonstration that ethnic jokes are playful, that they are not expressions of aggression, and that they do not create or exacerbate hostile tensions between peoples or groups ...For instance, in Europe there are many ethnic slurs against the Poles, but very few Polish jokes. In the United States, the land of the Polish joke, there are very few ethnic slurs against Poles."

Mirth of Nations, Page 158-159

"(American Polish jokes) is a world apart from the earlier folklore of Eastern and Central Europe, which constituted a veritable system of ethnic slurs expressed about the Poles by several different peoples who had been involved in long-lasting, and very violent, national and ethnic conflicts with the Poles .... Mild snobbery is quite distinct from real hatred. Germans, Russians and Ukrainians have a long history of hating and slaughtering Poles. Americans do not."

Lol. Even your favorite and only source comes out and says it. I really give up on you now.

Good night.

added note: However, Davies seems determined to absolve himself from any similarity between the violence of Eastern European history and ethnic slurs in comparison to the "playful" British ethnic slurs between its historic neighbors is discussion for another thread, and another day.

Ah ja, let me see if I get you right...also when an American tells a polish joke it's just playful fun but when a German tells a polish joke it's a sign of anti-slavic/anti-polish racism, right?

Buuuuuuuuut...what if an American with german heritage tells a polish joke in the US???
Ha!

Now it get's complicated...

I tell you what Calicoe, you and some of your country men just have a complex concerning Germans...but that's your problem, not the one of the Germans!

In exactly the same way that if an American newspaper makes derogatory references to the French, it is a one-off example which does not reflect the true attitude of the US people, but if a British media outlet publishes an Anti-American piece, it is indisputable proof of the anti-Americanism which is ingrained in British culture.

Don't waste your time Bratty, the double-standards espoused are there for all to see.

This sounds like an Irish joke.

Not me, Brattie, YOUR source, lol. Those were the words of Davies, my sock puppet friend.


First of all, we weren't talking about American newspapers and the French, or your one little harping point that you follow me all over the forum to bang on about. But since you brought it up, if we were actually having a discussion about your point, I would say that yes, there were some jounalistically weak and reactionary media sources (Read FAUX NEWS and some of Aussie Ruperty Murdoch's other toxic rags) that harped on about the French in the first phases of the Iraq invasion, directly related to that falling out. I have no problem admitting this and speaking the truth of what is out there. You can't even acknowledge a fact that everyone knows: there is rampant and long-standing anti-Americanism in every facet of British society, and the major media sources stoke it. I'm not the one with double standards, Irons, you are.

Even in our rags, we don't run surveys about how vulgar we believe a national group to be, unlike Britain's rags, and the blatantly biased reports of BBC World News reports.

Your inability to have an honest discussion about this and to see past your own interests is clear. You are as one-dimensional as Brattie above.

You're both a couple of sock puppets, lol.

As many people know, ones that are at least educated or read books lol, Polish people are not stupid in fact we're among the best educated in Europe, Italians are the least in Europe, only 8% of them have a college education, this is in percentage of course not numbers. I've said this before in a country of over 38 million Poland has 2 million current college students, so that number will rise even higher. That whole sterotype about us being stupid came from Polish people coming to foreign countries and locking themselves inside so called ghettos, not having contact with other nationalities, so they were victims of ethnic jokes, in the 1920's or 1930's not many Poles had an education that was true but so did many other nationalities Russians, Italians, Greeks, Irish but these people didn't keep to themselves as much.