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Horrific tackle seriously injures Marcin Wasilewski.


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espanaThreads: 40
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  Sep 1, 09, 11:16 /  #
Marcin Wasilewsk .


PolskaDollThreads: 44
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  Sep 1, 09, 18:34 /  #
Players should be charged with assault when they tackle like that. Terrible.

Looks like Marcin will be out for 12 months.
SeanusThreads: 22
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Edited by: Seanus   Sep 1, 09, 19:22 /  #
That was a cynical challenge. He should be banned for the rest of the season for lunging in like that. He shouldn't receive full wages either, maybe a 75% reduction in payment.
Kenneth78Threads: 1
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  Sep 1, 09, 20:12 /  #
This is one of the worst tackles I've ever seen. Poor Marcin, I only hope he will back on the field again. He is due to go in to the operation room with this serious injury. A red card is not enough for this kind of horrible behaviour out on the pitch, at least a 10 match suspension is needed, and a find as well I think.
McCoyThreads: 46
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  Sep 1, 09, 20:51 /  #
d
PolanglikThreads: 40
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  Sep 1, 09, 20:52 /  #
Kenneth78:
This is one of the worst tackles I've ever seen

I totally agree; there was absolutely no attempt to play the ball ... the other player, a cowardly animal in my opinion, went into the challenge with one thing on his mind and that was to hurt Wasilewski.

You cannot allow players to escape with simply a red card in such circumstances; I would ban him for a whole season and additionally at least 50% of his wages should be paid to Wasilewski as compensation.

I have read that it is quite a serious injury and may even be career threatening.
espanaThreads: 40
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Edited by: espana   Sep 1, 09, 21:19 /  #
the black player (i dont know the name) , is suspended until the 23 of november and he must pay 2500 euros
Kenneth78Threads: 1
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  Sep 1, 09, 21:39 /  #
I think he is called Axel Witsel. He should've been given a bigger find, but it is good that he got suspended until november, but a longer suspension would've been supported by me.
tornado2007Threads: 20
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  Sep 1, 09, 21:40 /  #
PolskaDoll:
Players should be charged with assault when they tackle like that. Terrible.

i know it looks bad and i feel sorry for Marcin Wasilewsk but as part of football injuries happen, no matter how small or large, whether dirty or by accident. I expect your reaction is more in shock than anything else. You can't have the police involved everytime somebody makes a bad tackle, players play the game and understand the dangers, if they feel the risk is to great then they should not play.

Seanus:
That was a cynical challenge. He should be banned for the rest of the season for lunging in like that.

that is more like a realistic punishment, i think he should be banned for around 10-12 games, the problem is prooving the intent to injure the player.

Seanus:
He shouldn't receive full wages either, maybe a 75% reduction in payment.

i think you can dream on with that one, although it would not be a bad thing to see Alex pay for the treatment he has to recieve + his recovery.

Kenneth78:
This is one of the worst tackles I've ever seen.

then you have not watched much football then, i know its a bad injury and it was not a great challenge but still 'one of the worst i've seen' i think your saying that because of the result of the tackle, rather than the tackle itself.

Kenneth78:
He is due to go in to the operation room with this serious injury.

I wish him all the best in his recovery

Kenneth78:
A red card is not enough for this kind of horrible behaviour out on the pitch, at least a 10 match suspension is needed, and a find as well I think.

i think htat is something we both agree on, i expect to see some sort of ban/fine like suggested.

Polanglik:
I totally agree; there was absolutely no attempt to play the ball ... the other player, a cowardly animal in my opinion, went into the challenge with one thing on his mind and that was to hurt Wasilewski.

wow wow wow wow, know your making assumptions you cannot prove, you cannot possibly know the intent of the player. He went in hard and agressive like anybody should, the problem was he was late!!! and showing his studs (all of them). That does not mean at forefront of his mind was 'i'm going to break this guys leg'

To be honest it looked like he was going in hard and then realised he could not get the ball, if you look carefully just before the ball is taken away by Marcin, the foot is pointing towards the ball. The Standard player has his hands in the air even before his foot touches the floor, which to me signals that he is trying to get out of the tackle or realises already he is not going to get the ball and is apologising in advance.

Polanglik:
You cannot allow players to escape with simply a red card in such circumstances; I would ban him for a whole season and additionally at least 50% of his wages should be paid to Wasilewski as compensation.

like i said before, unrealistic and is simply not going to happen, 10-12 match ban, maybe a fine.

Polanglik:
I have read that it is quite a serious injury and may even be career threatening

lets hope not!!!
espanaThreads: 40
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  Sep 1, 09, 22:03 /  #
tornado2007:
and is apologising in advance.

apologising to who?
tornado2007:
He went in hard and agressive like anybody should, the problem was he was late!!!

come on tornado he knew that mancin was touching the ball first and minimum if he **** up ,go back and say sorry , he should show a little of care for mancin .
SeanusThreads: 22
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  Sep 1, 09, 22:05 /  #
Proving it may be tough but he jumped into it and quickly put his studs down. If you see that you may be going to harm sb, pull out of the challenge. He's around 10,000PLN out of pocket (in equivalent terms) but that's a drop in the ocean for most pros. It was ghastly looking at it, similar to when Kevin Randleman suplexed Fedor Emelianko in MMA. I thought he was gonna have his neck broken but he somehow survived and went on to win.

I wish Marcin a speedy recovery and for that bast*rd to pay some of the costs.
tornado2007Threads: 20
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Edited by: tornado2007   Sep 1, 09, 22:23 /  #
espana:
apologising to who?

the ref i'm guessing, you know like, 'soz ref i was a bit late there and i know it'

espana:
come on tornado he knew that mancin was touching the ball first

surely you know these things happen in a split second, it looked a bit of a forwards challenge if you ask me. One second the ball is there, the next its not, it happens in football.

espana:
go back and say sorry , he should show a little of care for mancin .

I agree with that totally, he should go and apologise to him, it should be a given that somebody does that.

Seanus:
Proving it may be tough but he jumped into it and quickly put his studs down. If you see that you may be going to harm sb, pull out of the challenge.

as i said above, if you watch the reply and stop it just before he makes contact, the ball is under his foot and not Marcin's leg. Football is a fast moving game at times, therefore challenges will be mis-timed and late on occassions.

I've done it myself, going for a tackle where i was stretching for the ball, thinking i'd got it and then suddenly before i knew it i'd broken a guys ankle. If you go hard into challenges there is always a possiblility of somebody getting hurt, often you can tell on the intent by the reactions of both players after the event. In my case luckily, in the hospital afterwards the guy knew and understood that i did not intend to hurt him but as he put it 'a strikers challenge'

Seanus:
I wish Marcin a speedy recovery and for that bast*rd to pay some of the costs.

i do think its unfair to slag him like that for something he probably did not mean to do.

Seanus:
similar to when

Henrik Larsson had a similar injury, he got it from running alongside another player and in the tangle of legs............ pooh happens i'm afraid
SeanusThreads: 22
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  Sep 1, 09, 22:27 /  #
I think he meant it but that's just my interpretation. The point is, you don't put your studs down on sb's leg like that. At speed, you run the risk of what he did. The play was heated before he jumped in so that's extra evidence for my case.
spierettiThreads: 5
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  Sep 1, 09, 22:33 /  #
you cannot possibly know the intent of the player

Proving intent is virtually impossible on a football pitch. Paul Elliott tried to sue Dean Saunders for a horror tackle which ended his career in 1994 but lost when the case reached the High Court.


Even this didn't end in a verdict of assault!!



Battiston (the French player - unconscious) ended up with damaged vertebrae, three teeth knocked out and later slipped into a coma.
Schumacher (the German keeper) said after the match "If that's all that's wrong with him, I'll pay him the crowns".

No legal action was taken...
SeanusThreads: 22
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  Sep 1, 09, 22:37 /  #
What about Roy Keane's challenge on Haaland? There was pretty clear intent there and in many other cases. Look at the Cameroon guy's (Kana Biyik??) challenge on Claudia Caniggia way back. His intent was crystal clear. I could list many more.
Kenneth78Threads: 1
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Edited by: Kenneth78   Sep 1, 09, 22:43 /  #
tornado2007:
To be honest it looked like he was going in hard and then realised he could not get the ball, if you look carefully just before the ball is taken away by Marcin, the foot is pointing towards the ball.

To be honest I don't see this. Axel Witsel jumps in, moves his foot forwards, and then moves his foot right down, studs first. If he don't try to hurt the other player i really wonder how he was planning to handle the ball with such a mowement like that? But any way we look at this, Witsel made a big misjudgment of his action in this situation.

Also the czech Jan Polak was injured before this tackle and could be out for several months. Looks like the Standard Liege players was out to get the Anderlecht players in this game.


Seanus:
What about Roy Keane's challenge on Haaland?

About this tackle I've read in Norwegian newspapers that this was a planned revengetackle by Keane due to a tackle that Haaland executed on Keane in an earlier meeting between this two players
PolanglikThreads: 40
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  Sep 1, 09, 22:52 /  #
tornado2007:
wow wow wow wow, know your making assumptions you cannot prove, you cannot possibly know the intent of the player. He went in hard and agressive like anybody should, the problem was he was late!!! and showing his studs (all of them). That does not mean at forefront of his mind was 'i'm going to break this guys leg'

To be honest it looked like he was going in hard and then realised he could not get the ball, if you look carefully just before the ball is taken away by Marcin, the foot is pointing towards the ball. The Standard player has his hands in the air even before his foot touches the floor, which to me signals that he is trying to get out of the tackle or realises already he is not going to get the ball and is apologising in advance

Tornado … I have watched the clip many times now, and there is no way you can claim that Axel is going for the ball …. his approach is to go over the ball and stamp/come down hard on Wasilewski’s leg!

This was not a case of Alex being late in his tackle …. he could have pulled out instead of following through and ‘stamping’ down hard on Waslilewski’s leg.

I have watched and played football for many years to know the difference between a hard, aggressive and late tackle, and one which is over the top and a blatant ‘stamping’.

I have no idea where you get the idea that Axel was trying to get out of the tackle, and I do not see any sign that he is apologising in advance.

Football always brings up many talking points, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion; on this occasion it appears we will differ on the level of ‘intent’ by Axel in his challenge on Wasilewski.

You will stand by your opinion that it was a hard aggressive tackle that was late …. I on the other hand will stick to my opinion that there was no attempt to play the ball, and that he went over the top and came down hard on Wasilewski’s leg resulting in a horrific injury which we all hope will not end his career. Alex could have pulled out of the challenge instead of jumping in and coming down with full force on Wasilewski’s leg.

http://www.soccernews.com/belgians-in-uproar-over-ankle-crunching-tack le/23060/

Here is part of the article :

Witsel meanwhile was put through the wringer by the country’s press, which is believed to be partly because he is considered a great hope for the future having won the Golden Boot trophy for the best player in the Belgian championship in 2008.
Flemish-language newspaper Het Laatste Nieuws was one of several that put the story on their front pages, calling Witsel’s challenge an “absolute disgrace”, while French language paper Le Soir called Witsel’s gesture a “moment of madness”.
Witsel quickly apologised for the horror tackle but the 20-year-old Belgian international was shunned by some of his teammates and the club’s sponsor was so shocked it released a statement hitting out at the player.
Witsel will appear at a disciplinary hearing at the Belgian football federation (URBSFA) on Tuesday and is expected to be handed a lengthy ban.
espanaThreads: 40
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Edited by: espana   Sep 1, 09, 22:56 /  #
very similar to eduardo injury.,,,, no sorry it is worse the marcin :(



PolskaDollThreads: 44
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  Sep 1, 09, 22:58 /  #
Witsel is not even looking at the ball when he goes in for the "tackle", he looks down as his foot comes down. He may not have intended the injury he caused but he certainly wasn't going for the ball.
SeanusThreads: 22
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Edited by: Seanus   Sep 1, 09, 22:59 /  #
I agree with Polanglik and PD, it was a stamping motion with no sign of remorse. Raking your studs down on the ball achieves very little anyway. The basic principles of Physics tell you that, at such speed, contact will be hefty.
Kenneth78Threads: 1
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  Sep 1, 09, 23:00 /  #
espana:
very similar to eduardo injury. no sorry it is worse :(

I agree, this is worse
SeanusThreads: 22
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  Sep 1, 09, 23:04 /  #
The key words are 'running the risk'. In many cases, such an injury won't happen but he laid open the possibility that it would. He just had to imagine how he'd feel if sb did the same to him.
tornado2007Threads: 20
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  Sep 1, 09, 23:22 /  #
Seanus:
I think he meant it but that's just my interpretation. The point is, you don't put your studs down on sb's leg like that. At speed, you run the risk of what he did. The play was heated before he jumped in so that's extra evidence for my case.

i don't think this should have anything to to with legal action, court, police etc etc. As for putting your studs down on somebodies leg, the good point you make but seem to miss it 'at speed' As i said to espana, it all happens within a split second.

Seanus:
What about Roy Keane's challenge on Haaland? There was pretty clear intent there and in many other cases. Look at the Cameroon guy's (Kana Biyik??) challenge on Claudia Caniggia way back. His intent was crystal clear. I could list many more.

of course there are cases where there is intent, usually though this happens in cases where there is an ongoing fude or where a situations has deleloped through a number of encounters/games.

Kenneth78:
To be honest I don't see this. Axel Witsel jumps in, moves his foot forwards, and then moves his foot right down, studs first. If he don't try to hurt the other player i really wonder how he was planning to handle the ball with such a mowement like that?

well obviously its not about instant control, probably more to do with the fact he is trying to get 'anything' on the ball before Marcin, in this case Marcin was to quick for him. I think we all know that strikers are not the best tacklers in the world, the technique is missing some what from their tackling.

Kenneth78:
But any way we look at this, Witsel made a big misjudgment of his action in this situation.

i totally agree with that

Kenneth78:
Also the czech Jan Polak was injured before this tackle and could be out for several months. Looks like the Standard Liege players was out to get the Anderlecht players in this game.

ow come on, its a game between two rivals, that does not mean they are all out the hurt each other!!!! I've attended and watched many Rangers/Celtic games, some say its the best derby and most fierce. Yet there are not broken legs and fifteen injuries everytime the two play.

Kenneth78:
About this tackle I've read in Norwegian newspapers that this was a planned revengetackle by Keane due to a tackle that Haaland executed on Keane in an earlier meeting between this two players

you see, its history, i doubt there is any history or bad goings on between Marcin and Alex. Apart from the fact they play for two different teams

Polanglik:
Tornado … I have watched the clip many times now, and there is no way you can claim that Axel is going for the ball …. his approach is to go over the ball and stamp/come down hard on Wasilewski’s leg!

all i can say is that we have a different point of view, i'm not going to go on about 'have you ever played the game' bla bla bla bla bla, all i will say though is it is hard to read the mind/intent of a player if you are not actually him.

Polanglik:
This was not a case of Alex being late in his tackle …. he could have pulled out instead of following through and ‘stamping’ down hard on Waslilewski’s leg.

how long did the tackle last from start to finish!! it was all a bit quick and sudden, the actions were quicker than any thought he could of processed in time to pull out of the tackle. As i said before it looked as though he realised what was about to happen (hands in the air thing) but could not do anything about it, he was more or less in the air.

Polanglik:
I have watched and played football for many years to know the difference between a hard, aggressive and late tackle, and one which is over the top and a blatant ‘stamping’.

so have and so do i, thats all i'm going to say, i've made a few late tackles and shown in my example above, caused damage to somebody. Of course not on purpose but from the outside it could of looked like i did.

Polanglik:
I have no idea where you get the idea that Axel was trying to get out of the tackle, and I do not see any sign that he is apologising in advance.

he has both hands in the air as he is coming down, that is not a usual thing to do when you are coming from an upright position.

Polanglik:
Football always brings up many talking points, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion; on this occasion it appears we will differ on the level of ‘intent’ by Axel in his challenge on Wasilewski.

You will stand by your opinion that it was a hard aggressive tackle that was late …. I on the other hand will stick to my opinion that there was no attempt to play the ball, and that he went over the top and came down hard on Wasilewski’s leg resulting in a horrific injury which we all hope will not end his career. Alex could have pulled out of the challenge instead of jumping in and coming down with full force on Wasilewski’s leg.

its a game of opinions, thre will always be differing views about anything in life, let alone football.

I hope nobody thinks that i am condoning such a tackle, i am not, i just don't like to jump on a guys back when an event can occur in such a short amount of time.

espana:
very similar to eduardo injury.,,,, no sorry it is worse the marcin :(

another tackle that was also an accident due to the fact Eduardo was 'too quick' to the ball for the defender.

PolskaDoll:
Witsel is not even looking at the ball when he goes in for the "tackle", he looks down as his foot comes down. He may not have intended the injury he caused but he certainly wasn't going for the ball.

surely if you were making a tackle you would be looking down if that is where you foot is heading, the ball is there one second and not the next. Yes he made a mistake and a bad one at that but please don't start saying 'he wanted to break his leg'
SeanusThreads: 22
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  Sep 1, 09, 23:27 /  #
In Scotland, there is such a thing as the thin skull rule. It doesn't matter if you intend to cause injury to an OAP, it matters that the area is fragile and there is reasonable foreseeability that your actions could bring about that bad state of affairs. Proving intent to damage is not needed, it is enough that he ran up (so not split second, Torny) at speed and followed through. Keep looking at the clip, Torny. Watch the build up.
PolskaDollThreads: 44
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  Sep 1, 09, 23:30 /  #
T, I've watched that video until my eyes blurred both here and elsewhere. Witsel wasn't looking at the ball. He should have been looking at the ball if he was intending to make a play for it. He doesn't look at the ball at all. In fact, he only even looks at his feet once foot is about to connect with Wasilewski's leg. He's actually looking at Wasilewski or some other point of vision until the very last second. But definitely not the ball. What his intent was, no one will ever know. He just wasn't concentrating on the ball is all.
tornado2007Threads: 20
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  Sep 2, 09, 00:22 /  #
Seanus:
it is enough that he ran up (so not split second, Torny) at speed and followed through. Keep looking at the clip, Torny. Watch the build up.

you see that is where you are wrong, he obviously decides that the situation is worth chasing, however he does not know what Marcin's exact actions will be until he executes them. This does not leave him much time to change his actions or avoid Marcin.

I also think it shows the pressures of football, if you pull out of a tackle that you could have won the ball from, then what are people going to think. I mean look at beckham in the 2002 world cup, after he pulled out of a tackle on the touch line Brazil went up the other end and scored. I know its a small thing considering what happened to Marcin's leg, however these are the sorts of things that are discussed in pro football.

Don't get me wrong i'm not saying that Alex does not deserve a fine and a lenghty ban, i'm just putting forward the reason why the tackle looks bad, when actually there may very well have been no intent to cause such an injury. All i will say is that if he did not connect with Marcin's leg, people would be saying one of two things. First of they would not even be discussing it, secondly they would be talking about a great stretch for the ball that led to a winning goal in a derby match.

On a side note, i'm getting the picture in my head of what you guys must think my attitude to playing football is, well i bet you would be wrong :)

PolskaDoll:
In fact, he only even looks at his feet once foot is about to connect with Wasilewski's leg.

You see the thing is Dolly you do tend to look at a bit of both when your making a tackle, ball and your own foot/leg, in no specific order. You can have 'eyes for the ball' without it being the only thing you look at. I think one thing you have all looked over is the fact that this guy is not a defender, he is a striker, usually tackling isn't part of their repertoire. I may have been more shocked if this was Maldini or Cannavaro who made this tackle, as it is part of the art of defending, making tackles. I expect if you looked at injuries such as these, you will find that they are not caused by defenders, usually midfielders and strikers making silly tackles. What i mean is, the better you are at something, the less likely you are to make a mistake like Alex did.

PolskaDoll:
He's actually looking at Wasilewski or some other point of vision until the very last second.

Wouldn't you be if somebody was sliding in from the side to try and take the ball, Marcin is sliding and i'm sure that is enough to destract anybody if it is within their peripheral vision???

I would be asking serious questions if Marcin was in front of him standing and Alex was looking at his leg before making a tackle, having played football myself i can tell you that in a close 50/50 chase to the ball you do have an eye for the opponent coming in, to see if he is going to get there before you and how he is getting there (sliding in, running in, studs up, shoulder charge etc etc)
SeanusThreads: 22
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  Sep 2, 09, 19:20 /  #
You are not saying he doesn't deserve a fine and a lengthy ban? If you are saying that he does then please explain why. Reckless endangerment is clearly the issue here. Torny, what part of jumping in don't you understand?

Challenges that could cause irreparable damage should be avoided at all costs. Winning one challenge is VERY minor compared to the damage he inflicted. Discussions are often just that, floating words in the air and not concrete action like the guy dished out. They can chat all they want, what remains clear is that the guy entered into sth that always had a high-risk element.
tornado2007Threads: 20
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  Sep 2, 09, 19:28 /  #
Seanus:
You are not saying he doesn't deserve a fine and a lengthy ban? If you are saying that he does then please explain why.

for the simple fact he caused the injury, intent or not intent, if you break a guys leg by accident or design you should be punished.

Seanus:
Reckless endangerment is clearly the issue here. Torny, what part of jumping in don't you understand?

and what don't you understand about 'jumping into tackles' it happens in football matches, its just not commented on that much until something like this happens, some of the best tackles have been 'jumped into'

Seanus:
Winning one challenge is VERY minor compared to the damage he inflicted.

i agree with that, also the part about avoiding these sorts of injuries from happening, as a percentage though how many tackles end in injuries like this?? Think of all the games of football + all the tackles............... this is an extreme case.

Seanus:
Discussions are often just that, floating words in the air and not concrete action like the guy dished out. They can chat all they want, what remains clear is that the guy entered into sth that always had a high-risk element.

playing football puts you at risk of injury, like with most sports or activities, there is always the risk of injury no matter how it happens. It is good trying to avoid them and its even better when nobody intends the injury but its going to happen.

all i'm saying is don't shoot one man for one tackle, in one game, think how many tackles he has made before, think how many games he has played in!!!! Personally i do not know much about the player, i suppose intent could be determined by his history/previous actions, what has he bene like in the past, does he have a record of making reckless challenges etc etc
SeanusThreads: 22
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  Sep 2, 09, 19:37 /  #
So you agree with me that intent isn't critical in this case? What if you are playing in slippery conditions and you firmly slide into the guy's leg, causing it to break? I mean by accident of course. According to your logic, he should be punished but he was hardly reckless if the guy had a fragile leg and it was slippy.

The difference is that many players go right for the ball and win it without connecting with the opponent's leg. That wasn't the case here, the ball was already away. Jumping on sb's leg is just not on.

Statistics play their part but some just get lucky.
tornado2007Threads: 20
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  Sep 2, 09, 19:43 /  #
Seanus:
So you agree with me that intent isn't critical in this case? What if you are playing in slippery conditions and you firmly slide into the guy's leg, causing it to break?

well as far as i'm concerned, the fact is, his leg was broken. You cannot prove for a 'fact' that he intended to break his leg, how would you like to judge it??

Seanus:
What if you are playing in slippery conditions and you firmly slide into the guy's leg, causing it to break?

well if i went in firmly as you put it, would that not be considered reckless in your eyes?? surely if you know the pitch is that slippery then you would hold back some what in your tackles.

Seanus:
According to your logic, he should be punished but he was hardly reckless if the guy had a fragile leg and it was slippy.

if the guy had a dodgy leg then he should not have been playing in the first place, therefore the responsibility is not that of the player who slid in.

Seanus:
The difference is that many players go right for the ball and win it without connecting with the opponent's leg. That wasn't the case here, the ball was already away. Jumping on sb's leg is just not on.

You can go for the ball and still miss it, even land on somebodies leg, it is possible you know. You must have played football before, so therefore you must also remember a time where you have made a tackle, ended up fouling the guy and thinking 'man i was sure i was going to get the ball then'.

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Kazimierz Deyna died 20 years ago  Poland v Northern Ireland (soccer/football game)

Random: Looking for name of Polish Sitcom about two priests
Archives / 2009 / Sports, Recreation /posts: 41


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