Black people in Poland

Giles, don't waste your time or your energy mate. You can't cure "true believers." They are suffering from circular logic coupled with a healthy dose of confirmation bias.

If you ask someone why they believe in the bible, they'll probably answer, because it is the word of god. Then if you say why do you believe in god, they'll say, because of what it says in the bible and round and round we go.

Giles, You just adore pictures of Gangsters. Did you know that the Koran says that that Israel is the Jews land. You didn't know that did you Einstein. I do not believe that you have been around death and suffering. I have had to fight for my life you haven't. Do you think being a good memorizer of French and Theology makes you wise. True wisdom only comes from God. You are not wise you are stupid. You read the bible? Maybe God blinded your brain while you were reading. You say there is no God, You are a complete and utter Fool.

True wisdom from god!!

And...and...and laughed at your gangstry face

Riff...WOW. That's all I can say.



bbaaaa

Riff,

Did you meet Jesus when you were fighting for your life ?

darn... all i met was doctors when i was fighting for my life... what makes you so special...?

yeah... yeah, giles... didnt you know that that the Koran says that that Israel is the Jews land [sic].... its all that champagne, powder and models man.... clouding yo brain... [can i have some please....]

Are you referring to me or Riff ?

riff... i know youre special...

uh.... Jasiu=riff now?

fisz... dont be silly...

Fish is this th esame Riff I am thinking about?

Yes...I believe so

the one who almost bit your head off, called both of us names a number of times and tried to pick up a teenage girl off the forum?

Yeah....same guy. Funny huh?

what can I say

i thought it was to control women?

and jesus is the son of god...they are not one in the same.

You don't know your trinity then do you bud? God the father, God, the son and God, the holy spirit (he got put on light clerical duties for having his fingers in the till or something)

when i used to cross myself at church it was the father, the son and the holy ghost.

or there is this slab of information that doesnt draw too many conclusions:


Is Jesus God? The Historical Dispute
Is Jesus God? The answer to this question is the only real dispute surrounding the historical Jesus. No legitimate scholar today denies that Jesus is a historic figure that walked on this earth about 2,000 years ago, that he did remarkable wonders and acts of charity, and that He died a horrible death on a Roman cross just outside Jerusalem. The emotionally-charged dispute focuses specifically on whether Jesus was God incarnate who rose from the dead three days after His Crucifixion.

Is Jesus God? The Only Alternatives
Is Jesus God? Many people have dealt with this "spiritual" dispute by intellectually accepting Jesus as a great man, great teacher, or great prophet. However, Jesus and His inspired followers didn't mince words when they declared Him to be God (John 10:30-38, Matthew 16:13-17, Mark 14:61-64, John 14:6, Hebrews 1:8, Colossians 1:16, John 12:40-41 [quoting Isaiah 6:1-10]). Therefore, any type of intellectual compromise calling Jesus a "good man" is logically inconsistent. Why? Because there are really only three legitimate alternatives for the identity of Jesus Christ. He is either a liar, a lunatic or our Lord and God. Since Jesus claimed to be God, His claims are either true or false. If false, He must have been a liar, deliberately misleading the multitudes. Or, He was a lunatic, sincerely believing Himself to be God, when in reality He was just a man. However, if Jesus was a "good man," as most people now agree, how then could He be both good and crazy, or good and a liar? There is only one logically consistent alternative - He must have been telling the truth. In addition to the logical inconsistency, the remarkable historical, archaeological and manuscript evidence shows that Jesus was neither a liar nor a lunatic. Again, the only position left is that His claim is true. Jesus is Lord and God.

The only real argument that remains, is that Jesus was just a legend or myth. There is little likelihood that Jesus' claims are legend. There just wasn't enough time for any legendary development of the story to replace what really happened. For instance, we now know that the Gospels were written 30 to 50 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. More dramatically, we now date some of the early Christian creeds, proclaiming the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, to 3 to 10 years after His crucifixion. This includes Paul's letters to the Corinthians, Romans and Galatians. Finally, if Jesus' claim of deity was a myth, the early Jewish opponents of Christianity would surely have presented the fact that these claims never happened. Unlike modern skeptics, the Jewish rabbis never denied that Jesus made the claim that He was God. Instead, they called Him a liar, and tried Him for blasphemy.

Is Jesus God? The Only Answer
Is Jesus God? Once you have asked all your questions, weighed all the evidence, and tested all the arguments, you will ultimately be confronted with this question. In Mathew 16:15, Jesus put it this way, 'But who do you say that I am?' One of His disciples, Simon Peter, replied: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' What is your reply?

I asked you first, but have it your way. No, I can’t give you a 100% proof of his existence… But neither can you give me a 100% proof that he doesn’t exist. For your every argument stating that He (or She as you wrote ) is just a product of someone’s wicked imagination I will have an contra-argument, and vice versa, for my every attempt to persuade you that he is real you will find some facts against it. We will only know who’s right after our time has come. Until then we can only believe in his existence or lack of existence. Yeah, believe, and that’s the key word. That’s what it’s all about. That’s why it’s called faith. It’s this uncertainty of existence that’s actually the biggest test for people.




Can you prove that religion was only created by people to control masses and not that it became a weapon of manipulation somewhere in the process? I want some hard scientific proof, and not assumptions. Assumptions are good for silly religious nutters, like me, and not for rational thinking people like you.

Oh boze...we might have to get a religion thread going.

From a brotha wanting to go to Poland to The Holy Trinity. Don't you guys think you've strayed a wee bit?

Mate. Thanks to going to all that trouble, but really it wasn't necessary, no really it wasn't.



My reply would be that I once had to go see the school priest. He asked me what I would like to confess. I'd not actually done anything wrong (I was only 8 years old) but i'd been put under strict instructions from my teacher to think of at least three things that I needed to be absolved of. Well, tricky. But bless my little cotton socks, I tried.

I was, looking back, mightily impressed by the poker face the priest kept as I told him solemnly that i'd sinned and I hadn't actually changed my socks when I told my mum I had.
I got three hail marys and one our father (Got off lightly there!) and that was that. I was free from my evil doing. (phew)

But what is my point?

I think that by that point, even the priest knew how daft it all was. But we all went through the motions because we all believed that we had to, even though no one can prove to us that we do.
But isn't that the point?
Bertrand Russell said that there is a teapot orbiting the earth. Does that mean I should be out in my garden night upon night, telescope trained to the heavens trying to catch a glimpse of Haley's Wedgewood?
Of course not!
It's not up to me to prove that there isn't a large tea cup who's spout we only see once every 365 days. No, it's up to him to prove to the rest of us that there is. Same with this. The one that is so convinced about there being a creator and a divine trinity and all that should have the onus firmly placed on his shoulders, to back it up and show you they're right.

I don't need to. To quote Christopher Hitchens. "What can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence."

King Sobieski and Matyjasz are obviously not American. I find them to be very friendly people. The Christians in America have a reputation for being mean and for not making sense when they talk about Christ which only turns people away.

First of, I didn't start this whole conversation. I'm not here to convince people that they are right are wrong, but I don't like to be called an "Ignorant dumbass sheep". I really couldn't care less if other people believe in God or don't. I respect point of view of people from all religions as well as atheists, but I'm not too fond of situations where people try to force on me their one and only truth. Especially when they preach science and rational thinking, but simply can't scientifically and rationally prove their right.

You're sounding a bit annoyed M. Which is most unlike you. No offence intended and if you've taken any then you should definitely give it back immediately.

I take an evangelical dislike to those evangelical people who insist that god exists, praise the lord and if you're not as convinced as they are, you'd better get your factor 50 on as it's going to be a hot old timein the after life.

As you have so rightly said, you didn't start this discussion and discussion is what I hope it will remain, though as always, when you (meaning people in general not you personally) touch on religion, it usually ends up being a bit of a flame fest.

Just a side note for all you science minded, rational thinkers---Albert Einstein believed there is a God, and I doubt any of you were more intelligent than him.

I was wondering the same thing.....I had to go back several posts just to figure out how it started.

So too does Dr Stephen Hawking and that guy is so smart, he can manage to lose me with the mere title of one of his books. "A brief history of Time" (if time is infinite, how can it be brief?) Lost already. Thanks Bill. So what hope does that give me

I have my own personal beliefs which I don't wish to share, I merely can't abide people who love to claim they are right, when they have nothing but belief to back them up and they lure the gullible and the vunerable.