BRAIN DRAIN ON POLAND

That was the point of my previous post - you lose with local people if you want to get a better jobs (this is my experience, so I'm talking for myself only) - you have to accept the worst ones, in terms of both conditions and salaries.

You lose in the beginning as they don't know anything about you ( no work history in UK) but if someone is ambitious, good, speaks good English he can always move on....

Yes, this is largely true...but as I have noted above....lots of them hold two jobs.....so they go all out to maximise there earnings whilst here...they know it won't last for ever, and indeed have a limited time here too.

But people on the board say that min wages back home are 80-95 pence an hour back home....well.....you can survive for a 1 or two years on just half this......in Ireland....£3 an hour.....be on your second job.......for another 20-30 hrs a week.......ergo......spending £160 a week to live...and save £250 plus week!!...or thereabouts!!

There are "lower class" people in every nation and It's better that they are there (and often send money to PL) than sit here on welfer.

I can't agree with that. First of all the best educated people can make really good money in Poland, so usually they don't leave and no matter what they say I think that most of those, who left would come back immidietly If they could make here similar money.

Well... I simply mean that most of them work for little money in comparision to average natives in these countries.

Grzegorz,

Thanks for your reply.

No problem

Well, if they are lawyers, who passed their bar exam, they can usually make good money and wouldn't be able to practice law in the UK, so yes, they stay in Pl. But doctors, engineers - their skills are more easily transferable. There are graduates in biotechnology or robotics that I know, for whom there are simply no jobs in Poland - we are not exactly a scientific powerhouse, and are still unable to fully take advantage of home-grown scientists and innovators. Poland does not create enough positions in the commercial sector for highly specialized people.
Have a look at Polish -language message boards (Gazeta.pl) and see how many people declare that they do not intend to return to Poland. Once you have children in the UK, it becomes very difficult to transfer them into the Polish educational system, which is totally unprepared for such eventualities.
As I wrote, it is true that the majority of recent immigrants are not those that are the best educated. But quite a few are, and the ones still in Pl continue to be lured by better prospects in the UK - my friend, who is a scientist, has recently been headhunted and is moving here, my cousin, who is an engineer, etc, etc.

Unfortunately, I think Annamaria is right, Poland and its education system is creating highly skilled laborers for the UK. These individuals get a free education in Poland, but Poland gets nothing in return. If this situation does not change, I think the economy in Poland will get even worse.

And what do I get from Poland 1234? I'm an English teacher here - working in a local secondary school. I started to work in September this year, so I'm a rookie intern belonging to the lowest echelon. My salary (full-time job excluding extra hours) is about 700 zl ( $230) on hand per month!! I'm in dilemma now, for I do like this job and working with my students, seeing their progress and so on (even when they drive me crazy sometimes), however, if I found a better job with higher salary on the local market, I wouldn't think much and go there. I have a family - two kids of whom I take care of - so I'm obligated to keep everything above the subsistence level. Isn't in sad that sometimes you have to resign from things you like like just because you're not appreciated enough?

TP, this is after tax....700zl?



Its not so much that...but thats all the market rate is.......if they were in short supply or very valuable to the economy then it would be higher, you have to remember public sector jobs in themselves do not directly contribute to the economy!





Wrong.......its people gain new experiences, skills, which they will eventuially bring back to Poland...never mind the re-patriation of a high proportion of wages......but it will take a little while to really impact.

Yes Frank. To be more specific - the gross profit is 998zl (712zl on hand).

I understand your dilemma Tom_Poland. I am not saying you should not leave. I am just saying that the Brain Drain is a huge problem.

The English complain about the Poles, but the english politicians know what they are doing. Young, motivated, and educated workers are coming to England at Poland's expense. What a great deal!

Hopefully things will change... We shall see. I would rather have the Polish stay in Poland and have great jobs.

I just have read that about 20 % of polish immigrants in the UK declared that they will come back one day to their homeland. 14% say that they certainly won't return, and the rest is still not sure what they will eventually do. What would be the end result of this "Drang nach westen" nobody can foresee, but one thing is certain, nature hates empty spaces, and if poles won't come back they will be filled with immigrants from other countries, most likely Ukrainians, Belorussians, Turks(!),etc and when they do that... I will find myself a Ukrainian/Belorussian/Turkish/etc message board and slagg off those bloody carpet peddlers for undercutting our wages and tell them to go fu****back to their smelly **** hole homes! Revenge at last!! Buahahahahha.....

thats bloody brilliant...love it!!

I am from B'ham, UK and I see many Polish working hard to save money just to go back to Poland to have easier life. Life in England is rubbish and only those who came from very poor countries such as India and Pakistan choose to settle in the UK.

Few Polish will stay in the UK IF they manage to make few thousands of £

And You have read it in Daily Mail probably. I have about 10 friends warking abroad as I know except one who is married everybody want to return in (few) (months),year(s). But this 'drach nach west' really piss me off. Poles should building their country not England, Irland etc.

Stats for your consumption.......

Of every 100 Irish people who emigrated to the USA only 6 ever returned to live again in Ireland.

Of every 100 Italian people who emigrated to the USA 56 returned to live again in Italy!!!!!!!

Why the difference?

Each nations experiences are different at different times.......so will be the Polish experience!



Ideally yes.......but your country does not yet have the money, drive, knowledge of how to do this...............Ireland didnt til the early nineties...........now look at them!!!!

In "Wprost". It's nice that your friends want to return to Poland. I have a friend that returned here after 10 years living abroad. But then again I also have some friends that went to the UK only to stay there for few months, and look at them, it's been two years and they are still there.

Generally it's hard to predict how many polish immigrants will eventually return, but I wouldn't count on them to come back and "save" us from our miserable faith. We heard it all before, from those that were forced to stay abroad after the WWII. At the beginning they thought that the commie regime won't last long, but after they realized that it's not a temporarily phenomenon, they decided to gather the knowledge and return one day to liberate their countrymen and improve their motherland. So they stayed abroad, gathered the knowledge that in the future was supposed to help them improve Poland in the future, they gathered, and gathered it.. in the mean time they married some British women, had children with them, built their own houses, set up some businesses, worked in their gardens, etc, it was hard at the beginning as they were the outsiders, and they were forced to start everything from scratch, but they manage quite well…All this time they kept gathering the knowledge, just to found out one day from the BBC news that their people back home decided not to wait for their help and overthrew the commie system by themselves. History likes to repeat itself.


But you are right, the whole "Drang nach westen" is a very sad thing.

Im very pleased that this topic has managed to stay on topic and it's been very informative. Thank you for your input.

Matyjasz....
You cannot compare 'emigration' of polish soldiers after IIWW with this working migration. Poland is a UE member now, borders are open, people can work in every country inside EU and they take advantage of that. Some people go to UK or other country for few months and they come back and go again. Polish people are also moving from UK to other country like Sweden, Denmark, Swiss and vice versa. Wages in UK/Irland are 4-5 times higher that in Poland but ... for example flats in Poland are 4-5 times cheaper. In PL wages are growing quite fast lately and unemployment is falling. We will see what will happend. How many people will come back etc.
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I count only on myself. Hmm no, not only but not at them

Not for the latest entrants...only Ireland/UK/Denmark are legally open for the latest entrants to work in.

Polish workers still have problems working in Germany too.

And still on topic, I think this is forum record...once again thank you for your input,

No problemo thanks Youtoo. Youtoo sounds like Yahoo, I have to patended it

I'm English, I live in England and have done so all my life. I speak for for the majority in England when I say this, truthfully.

We wish you Polish parasites would go home and stop bleeding this country dry. Our economy would not fall apart without you. How was this country built up before you came?

By English people that's how.

You force wages down and house prices up. You leech the benefit system (tax credits) for children back 'home'. YOU are better off (the Polish), we are not.

What does England gain from Poland?

Scum!

Stop putting your filth into other people's mouths.

Lookie lookie here another TROLL!!

Why do siamese twins go to England?

So the other one gets to drive a little.

Brain drain?

For fucks sake, it's a compliment calling you lot 'halfwits'.