British aggression and anti-Polonism or Polonophobia .

Everyone who has looked into this is aware that the Polish fighters were particularly brave and were excellent fighters etc.They were highly respected within the RAF and army etc.Britain also made some promises that it did not keep.However,it does seem that in Polish education etc people are taught to blame Britain for betrayal instead of considering the practicalities and reality at the time.When Poland was invaded by Germany Britain declared war in the hope that Germany would fall back.This didn't happen and British forces were in no state at that time to take on the Germans and logistically were too far away etc...

Sorry you people but even when I was a kid my parents told me about all the Polish people whom helped in the Battle of Britian, I learnt of their input in history at my school. I now live at an R.A.F base in England where every year we go to all the graves of our hero's of the second world war and we all thank them for what they did to protect this country and Poland from evil. We have many Polish R.A.F graves here, young men who where here to fight 'with' England because we and our allies where the only country ready to fight against the Nazies, in the hope that one day they will see their Polish homeland and families 'Free' again.....Never at the graves do I ever see a Polish person looking after their graves................and I do not disrespect the memories of all our fathers, whom did so much so you can come on this web site and talk **** in a Free country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Examine this site & reflect on it & your arguments:
.polishwargraves.nl/

In the spirit of seeing a thread rise to 500...

I have enjoyed the midlands fracas, as of course, anywhere north of the Thames is Scottish border country and not to be trusted for anything.

Historically, why stop at WW2 - some of us want all our Atlantic coast back from Calais to Aquitane (including Biarritz - it's nice there).

I just wonder why we allow Polish hordes in, when they number so many anti-British mercenaries among their heroes - fighting with Napoleon against us, fighting against us in the American war of independance.... Its a wonder we forgive and forget and let any come in!

British aggression? don't you call us aggressive - what the hell do you mean by that.....are you talking to me, or just chewing a brick?

How do you think that a little island in the Altantic became a world power? We study other people and their culture, analyse their acheivements and failings. We learned banking and commerce from the Dutch, then took on the continental colonists everywhere they went.
You don't get the majority of the world to speak your language by being meek, you don't keep invaders at bay by being meek.
Many people have mentioned Winston Churchill - he killed a few in his time with half cocked hare-brained schemes, but what made him great? it wasn't his writing or his watercolours it was his AGGRESSION (We shall FIGHT them...)

Arguably, our favourite bird is the Robin. Just a small bird which has two main features: He is fearless and he is aggressive - he defends his territory to the death. never mind Bl**dy Eagles that wimp out and fly away when mobbed by crows - the Robin is a real fighter.

Similarly our national dog is the bulldog. An ugly little dog whose chief asset is that he is fearless. He fights till he drops because he never knows he is beaten.

With a heritage like this, violence will always be present, which is why we have the most repressive weapons laws in the world - because our government is afraid of their own people rising against them.

I was about to start a study of Polish artistic and film "resistance" against communism during the 1950's in the Neo Romanticism movement. But I don't think I'll bother now... bunch of leftist arty wimps with no backbone for a real fight - not like the Czechs, they brought the tanks in....blah ....blah

Nice rant, but some interesting points.

World has been full of aggressive leaders, but not many have the wisdom and morale of Winston Churchill.

The sky is falling down...

A very interesting post and yes we didnt get to be great by being nice, I have posted this before.

Actually Polish education refrains from accusing Britain and France of treachery, but rather states bare facts. At least I never heard about a situation where teachers were pointing fingers at France or GB. People that tend to blame the allies from WWII of treason are generally “domestic historians”.

The whole slogan “The west betrayed us in 1939, (our new comrades from the East would never do such a despicable thing) ” was coined by the post-war commie regime. Basically Poland gave it best shoot in the war, sacrificed a lot, theoretically was on the side of the winners and yet landed on the wrong side of the iron curtain. After taking under the consideration Churchill’s promises and the contribution of polish soldiers as well as polish civilians, I can understand why they felt left alone and somehow believed the commie propaganda. Is there any truth in this whole betrayal slogan? Well, it depends how one interprets the facts.

You are right truebrit, British forces were in no state at that time to take on the Germans and logistically were too far away and the French…. Well they had their Maginot line. What’s the point of putting millions of franks into a defense system just not to use it. The truth is Britain never thought seriously about helping Poland in case of a German aggression. The same goes for France. We have to understand that one of the lessons the west learned from the WWI was to try to avoid an open conflict at all cost. Even when you win the cost of it can be enormous. That’s why the French started to build the Maginot line. No more wars, No more deaths! Well, British and French ones at least. Can we blame them for wanting to protect their people? As long as that doesn’t affect our people, we can’t I guess.

I have to go now. To be continued…

Matt, would you call Norman Davies patronizingly a 'domestic historian'? And he doesn't write approvingly at all about the British and French not fulfilling their obligation to attack Germany when the latter attacked Poland in September 1939. The agreement between the Poles and the British and French was that the Poles should stand up to the Germans for two weeks and during this time their British and French allies would attack Germany. The Poles knew full well that they were no match for the German army, but that they were able to oppose it for two weeks . That's why Poland took the fight. See: Norman Davies. God's Playground. A History of Poland. Columbia University Press: 1982. vol. II.

By the way, from my own direct experience, the British people - I'm speaking here mostly about the English, because I haven't met too many Scots or Irish or Welsh - are the gentlest, the most sensitive, the most intelligent , and the least Polonophobic people I have ever met. And I have travelled wide in the world, to tens of countries. Of course, every country has its own rascals, but in Britain even the latter seem to be fewer and not as bad as anywhere else. I also noticed that the Brits, especially the English, do not have a very good image abroad. But it is the work of their envious adversaries, and, as a Pole, I understand very well how it works, because we Poles also have been besmirched abroad. May God save and protect Great Britain! Thank you, Britain, for saving scores of my poor countrymen from extreme poverty and despair.

You forgot to thank them for relegating them to the same.

[quote=truebrit] it does seem that in Polish education etc people are taught to blame Britain for betrayal [/qu

Rubbish. Britain's role is portayed in any history book: facts. It seems Brits don't want to acknowledge this.

We know we were unable to help Poland.Some in Poland seem to think we deliberately did all we could to not help Poland.

That is what I thought.Thanks for the rest of your post Matyjasz which I think has clarified things.

This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
This nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings,
Fear'd by their breed and famous by their birth

We our an island Nation & therefore suspicious of ALL strangers & foreigners. This Nation accepts the strangers, but, we wait & see how much they becomes like us before fully accepting them.

One thing, news in not the majority, but it is the minority, which is why news is news to tell everyone about it. I am an Englishman living in Pulway and I was racially attacked in Lublin Poland, does that make every Polish person, a racist no of course not. I just think that people need to be a bit more responsible when they post things here as it only promotes bad feeling between us all. Peace love and hippy **** to ya all

And what history book is this??

Go to your public library and borrow books - I have no intention of spoon feeding you history.

And America's top ace in the European theatre of the time, was of Polish descent. He even flew with the top 5 aces of 303 squadron and learned everything he could.



I highly recommend this book : questionofhonor.com



It's great. Best damn book I've ever read

How can you tell if they're Polish or not? In NY there are statues galore to Polish heroes of almost every war and people are there all the time. Blacks, latinos, whites (Poles or not) are always there. I suspect people go to those graves throughout the year, and maybe just go as families

Hell if we had those statues here in Erie, I'd put a nice bouquet of flowers there every weekend.

One of the things that needs to be looked at is how the British took credit for Polish accomplishments during WW2. Were it not for Polish armed forces, Britain would have been beaten.

For example, we always hear of the success of 303 Squadron (and rightly so) but what is overlooked is that the RAF, after realising that the Polish pilots were far superior than their own English pilots, would insert pairs of Polish pilots into regular RAF squadrons to add not only skill and experience but also bravery.

No way!! There would have been a better chance that the island was invaded, and then they would have had a much harder time fighting without us, but they probably could have managed (horribly or not)



Not all of them did. The good ones respected the Poles. Hell even the Nazis respected us. I've read plenty of old Nazi diaries, and one thing I've seen a lot was "I wish they were fighting with us, not against us" and "They were the only ones to charge out of the trenches, heads held high!"




Only because the Polish pilots were in their 30's (the best ones were) and were trained on WW1 plains, that were much harder to fly and maneuver, so when they were put in better plains, it was much much easier



And to help keep their new recruits alive so they could get some flying time and learn a few tricks of the trade



Not many people know this, but the main reason for the 303 and other Polish squadron's success was this : THEY HAD MASSIVE BALLS!!!
Seriously, they were trained to fly at full speed right at the enemy plain and make him flinch. Get him off his game. They were not supposed to pull up until it was a second too late, and even then were expected to make it out all right. Just a tid bit of info

Artur, my father was with the 24th Lancers in Maczek's 1st Polish Armoured. Quite a few of his friends who I knew personally also served. Even in their final years they were still bitter about how they were treated.

What I think really bothered them as that they got next to nothing from the British government after the war. One of them who served on OPR Dzik says they were treated as white cooleys.

I've had quite a few relatives all over Europe dying at that time. Something like 14 guys with my last name died in 7 different countris. You think I'm not pissed? Trust me, I know how it feels


Your dad didn't happen to know the guys who killed "The Black Baron" (Richter) did he??? Oh man, that'd be great

I only recently discovered (in the course of researching my family tree) that a cousin of mine was killed at Starobielsk in 1940 and his name is on the Katyn memorial. Another cousin was with Anders Army in Italy and my father was in Britain with Maczek's division. A few more died in 1945.

On my father's side we lost 14 all over.

2 in Belgium
1 in Holland
4 in France
1 was shot down over England, made it to hospital, and blead to death
3 fought in Italy, and were never heard from after Monte Cassino (presumed dead)
1 died in Warsaw uprising
1 died fighting in Russian Army against Nazis
and my great grandfather was killed because he was hiding 8 Jewsih children in his basement


We've tried finding records of their deaths, but I can't even find my last name on the internet too often. So it's hard, but we know they died fighting hard and making sure they gave the Nazis hell.

My father died when I was 7 so there is a lot about my family that I do not know. I discovered last year that I have a living cousin who is 90 and was born 2 years before my father. According to her, our family was quite large prior to 1939. Now there is barely 18 of us (that we know about). Military service seems to have been prevelant in the family (as no doubt it was with other Polish families). My father served, his father served and his father served.

Yeah. Our family was gigantic, then kinda slowed down a bit, but we've made a huge rebound. There's over 1000 of us on each side (mother's and father's) and I wish we'd have a fmaily reunion. I'd love to meet the older guys and learn about their stories of WW2 and their homes in Poland. I want to move there sooo bad

The problem in my area is that we (the English) do not believe the Polish are making enough effort to integrate into our society. They have created a parallel community and live in seperate areas. Generally speaking we find this an insult to our hospitality.