British aggression and anti-Polonism or Polonophobia .

Are you sure you aren't talking about the Pakistani neighborhoods?

it really applies to all immigrant communities that do not integrate into the adopted country.

but both sides have differing stories. one will ay we dont intergrate as were not made feel welcome, the other will say that they are not welcoming them as they close off

generally speaking

The process of integration takes a long time, not 2-3 years, so patience is required and I wouldn't take it as sign of refusing the hospitality at all.
You are dealing with a community whose language skills are probably less than perfect, grew up in a different culture and society, some of them deal with a lot of daily strugles and you are asking them to integrate. I think it's quite an unresonable request at this point in time.

Yes it is right that alot of groups from other nationalities do not entirely integrate into the host country, but the influx from eastern europe is so enornous that very large numbers are settling in small towns, with small populations, that have never experienced mass migration before. In such small communities, lack of integration - has - in my experience created a large degree of tension so far. The asians don't inter-marry to the british people, but their culture is generally speaking more compatible with ours at this present time, in my specfic area. I hope and believe that this will change in the next few years, becuase I am not saying Poles are bad people, just different! At the same time we also have to consider that people from the newest members: Romania and Bulgaria are keen to migrate, especially to the UK. The home office has indicated that it could force the governement to change its "open door" policy by 1999.

changing the policy by 2009

well, most people in western europe have not been exposed to former eastern block countries for obvious reasons and I think it will tak e while for both parties to adjust.

Generally speaking I will say that Poles are well behaved and definitely very hard working, so France made a mistake by stopping them from working in their country. Economically they have suffered badly from their closed door policy

I suppose I feel sad that I haven't formed a good friendship with my Polish neighbours yet, becuase it would be nice if I could.

Of a scale so large tht the UK and EIRE have never experienced before and are not aware how to deal with it.

miranda is right it will take time. But we should look at what happened in the US to try prevent 'ghetoisation' and segregation of communities.

If Polish national from this blog would consider comming to my area for a short while, to socialise with my friends, it would be good, becuase it would help me talk with my Polish neighbours. If so email me:

tom@datasoftware.org.uk

Thanks

this happens all over england, and has done since immigrants first arrived... how could we prevent it, and is it always the right thing to do?

it all starts in the schools.



is intergration and community a bad thing now? its the disappearance of such that brings such fear and lack of understanding between communities and neighbours

What about that quote "be the change you wish to see in the world". Try that

its how i live my life sg

Actually from experience I know that the Polish community in Trinidad was referred to as being "more clannish than the Scots". Yes, they knew and had friends outside of the Polish community but the weekends were for the Polish get-togethers. Lots of food and drink. I was 5-6 at the time but so I would not feel left out I was always given a large glass of port or sherry. I think it had to do a lot with keeping their roots, history and cultural identity intact. We still try to get Polish vodka, beer and food (imported where possible) whenever we can.

i dont know daffy - i see conflict where there is integration and troubles when there isnt... it would be great [?] if we could all live together in harmony but i dont think we could... even if people really wanted to...

better the lesser of two evils then


to be intergrated allows the chance to get along.


no to be allows fear, xenophobia and troubel as you say to flow over.


im do not share your view that intergration see's conflict however, id be more optimistic about its advantages. its the minority of people that make it look like it doesnt work

in a community of 100 it takes just one person to break the law and rules to sour the community.

unfortunately we are not going to agree on this one daffy...

i say unfortunately because i would like to think you are right... and of course in many ways you are, but i believe when and where there are people with differences, regardless of the form these differences take, then there will always be conflict... and to see this you just have to look at the world... as it always has been, as it is now and as it always will be...

And I wasn't sirring up trouble by making the above comments. The reason for it was that there was recently a program on the BBC that focused on the Pakistani neighborhoods in London. There was discussion about conflicts with the white british.

We have similar issues of conflict that has been going on for years in our Hasidic jewish neighborhoods. Bwoo is right in saying thse things will always be and I believe that they will get worse as time goes on.

I think fear plays a large part in any conflict. Fear of loss maybe? Of control? Of rejection? Of change?

Some members of an ethnic group may want to "blend in" and assimilate. That could make daily life easier for them if they fear hostily or lack of acceptance. But that also requires a degree of courage, to make that decision. For a person who is very traditional in their own culture, they may feel that they are giving up a part of themselves, what we would call "selling out".

I think this explains why immigrants sometimes lose their native language. They may want to blend in, so they will not be singled out. As a person who majored in Psych, we are told that we like people who are like us, that agree with us, and so forth. No one wants to be isolated.

Intergrating requires keeping a delicate balance. Keeping my culture, keeping my language, but adapting enough from the environment to build bridges to the new culture. That's a tough job for anyone. And if you throw in other stressors, like housing, language barrier, trying to do your job....well it get's that much harder.

I have a lot of respect for anyone who moves to another country to settle.

wish i wasnt... but its human nature... even in the school play ground...

thius is of course not a problem its debate. its civil. its all good.



i do



this is where i disagree, i see a propensity for change. i dont see that it will always be this way. we are only, in the last 100 years from over 7,000 as advanced, as educated and so on. it takes time. we've done so much in the last 100 years we need our physche to catch up.

fear of the unknown, and jealousy... among many others

the conflicts due to differences are usually down to handed down racism and a lack of education which leads to misunderstanding. intolerance. etc.

im not saying that its not happening. i know it is. Im merely seem to be the only one here proffering a possible solution rather than sit back and say - yea, its not going to change i may as well do nothing but pull up my chair, get some popcorn and watch.

(im not trying to stirr it lads either)

i hope you are right and i am wrong daffy

yes! i work in multicultural envoirns. Polish, Irish, Russian, German, English, Spainish, Italain etc and we all just work, get on, have fun and ive worked in two major cities

and its the dull and ignorant are the ones who cannot accept the intergration. they are the uneducated, the uncivilised elements of all our socieities

me too

Even if the whole human race is more advanced than we once were, there will always be individuals a every possible level of understanding and tolerance, along the continuum. All it takes is a handful of folks at the bottom of that continuum to start something. Then fear pours, like gasoline on a fire. Instant conflict!

i just said that a moment ago.



but that can change, be changed. with time, in time

Bubbawoo - I wouldn't say in my case its a case of jealousy or really the unkown on the part of the English people, becauase they are used to foreigners to some degree and also why what would they be jealous of? I mean people comming in from eastern europe don't own property of have much and most British people have and own too much as it is. Mabey the Poles are resentful about being under the grip of soviet control for so long?