British aggression and anti-Polonism or Polonophobia .

Hello Magda,
I'm glad you mentioned the above subject, because unfortunately for you I actually know what i'm talking about for a change.....There is a Museum in Bletchley Park near Milton Keynes that will tell the whole story.....'You would think the Museum would be in Poland, since according to you that is where the Codes were broken'....Well there you go, i'll try and quickly tell you all what happened.
When the war broke out Polish could not read a single word from the Enigma Code.....they had discovered only how the machine worked, but because there was a million, million ways of encoding the messages, that knowledge wasn't really of any use to anyone....It wasn't until the Royal Navy had managed for the first time to capture one of the enigma machines together with a list of codes from a German U Boat in the Atlantic that the actual break through was made....but even this was not enough, because the Germans sent 1000's of messages every single day, there was noway of reading all of them.......So another stupid Brit called Alan Turing stepped forth and made the final break through. He developed the first computer in the world, and was called the Turing Machine, but its better known now as the famous 'Ultra' Decrypting Machine'....This could not only read every single encoded message that came out of Germany ( Nobody had been able to do this until then ), but it could also organise the messages into sections of priority etc so the Allies could actually something about it....That is why it is the British that have always taken the credit for breaking the Enigma Codes.......Sorry to be a pain in your arse Madge....but I hope you all found the story intesting anyway!!

Technically Britain didn't saved Poland’s butt... but you probably had something else in mind and I'm going to look like a fool in a minute.

Interesting discussion. Too bad I don't have the time to join in … There are many myths on both sides that need to be abolished. Maybe tomorrow I will handle it. See ya then.

[quote=Magdushya] The contribution of the combat-hardened Poles, especially the men of 303, was vital. Indeed, many believe it was decisive!!!!!!!!!! [/quote
This was not the decisive factor, it was lots of things....The invention of Radar was key, and the fact that at the time we had the best Fighter Aircraft in the world. I have read some of the Memoirs of the leaders of the Third Reigh, and in their opinion the decisive factor was the fact that Britain had the most powerful Navy in the world.......Could they really have launched an amphibious assault on an Island with the biggest Navy in the world?......Think about it!

Yawn...



If are so naive to not realize that every country is biased about its history then I don't know how to help you...



Poles could easily read messages until Germans added one more "ring", in 1938 I think... Without knowledge of Poles about the machine shared with British, you probably wouldn't make It until the end of the war.



And for deafiting 3rd Reich with "symbolic" help from Soviets, Yanks and some others

I'm sure that helped very much during the battle of Britain.

I don't want to keep on having a go at you Magda, but i'm afraid you really don't know what your talking about......When the Potsdam agreement was signed I beleive the Russians were already on Polish soil, and had reached as far as the Vistula river......Now do you really think they would have turned their Tanks and Soldiers around and gone back to Russia if the British or Americans had asked them too???........Your accusing us of doing something to Poland that we had no control over!......Maybe this inbread hatred towards us still lingers from what they taught you in the days of Communism?

What Hollywood movies are you talkin about ? Many Hollywood movies (mostly better ones) have British actors and crew.
I don´t have anything against UK. Of course every country makes mistakes. I really don´t think that UK´s mistakes have been greatest in history.

Sorry if this felt as an anti-British rant or something, it was not to supposed to be so, it is just that I can relate to the Polish (and Eastern European) feels also cos Finland faced same kind of problems.

No i'm sorry you have got your facts completely wrong. The Poles couldn't read the messages and they added more rings to the machine in 1942.....I think you had already been defeated by then. Don't argue about something you no nothing about!

I mean't Grzegorz that was the ultimate reason the Germans never invaded Britain.

Yes ofcoarse Grzegorz i'm not denying any of that!.....but some of us did much more than others!!!

No more questions

I am english and dont hate anyone because of where they are from, doesnt matter where they are from its about the person and their personality.
As long as you dont cause trouble , try to work hard and be a good person, you will avoid problems- its only a few who encounter problems but racism is everywhere you just have to keep your head held up high and try to ignore it, and get on with life making the best out of it.

liz

U172 is a good example. The Americans didn't capture the Enigma machine. Braveheart was factually incorrect in a big way......

And don't worry MP, I'm not taking this post as anti British ranting at all. In amongst the misinformed comments from both sides there is a good debate going on. Just think it got a bit too personal. Bottom line is times have moved on. We're all in the EU, we're all Europeans and we will all be working and living in eachother's countries - period. There are problems with a large influx of new people into the UK. As I have said countless times on this Forum under several IDs we are a small island and the pressure on our services and infrastructure is intense. Soon the other EU countries will have relaxed entry requirements and the A8 and later nations will have more of a choice where to work so things will balance out. Personally I welcome Polish people here.

The actual cost of the war to Britain was £1200billion (in todays money) , 50% of its GBP from 1939-45.
The Lease-lend act saw Britain swapping bases around the world for war supplies.

Far more importantly, after the war the Gold standard was dropped mean that goods world-wide would no longer be priced in British Pounds but in US dollars (hence oil prices etc started being price in Dollars). The resulted in the US dollar moving from $5=£1 to its current $2=£1 due to the massive demand of US currency to purchase goods and held in banks worldwide.
For instance $500billion is shipped to oil producing countries each year.

I was just wondering who was responsible for the other 88%?

If our grandparents lived through it....and it happened in our country...I think we know enough. We know war a lot better than most europeans.


HERE'S WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO TELL YOU!!!!
Every country teaches ITS SIDE OF THE STORY. They teach you half truths and half lies. Same goes for Poland, Russia, US, Germany, etc. They tell mostly what they did, and sometimes embelish it. EVERY COUNTRY DOES. There is not a single modernized country on this planet that hasn't done that.

Polish Scientists solved the Enigma Code -even the History Channel in the USA states this.
UK had the best Navy in the world at the time - won't argue with that
USSR was detrimental to Allied cause - even though they went a little wayward, they were essential yes

Should I keep going? Each side did what they could. US, UK, USSR, and PL were the largest Allied contributors to the war. The Polish Airmen played an essential part in the Battle of Britain, even your Queen today and Churchill in the past agreed.

Why are we arguing about stupid crap like this? All we should care about is that those same 3 Allied powers are fighting together in Iraq and Afghanistan. UK, US, and PL are the 3 biggest contributors to the war. There are a large number of other countries there also, but I am just naming these 3 (live with it )They are still fighting, AS FRIENDS, even today. An alliance that will hopefully never end. I've talked to many Brits my age and when they find out I am Polish they tell me thats awesome and they enjoy reading books about the Polish in WW2. UK and PL were the only 2 countries never to give up even when faced with such odds and people are arguing about who helped more?

I think this thread needs to be deleted. What would our grandfathers who fought alongside one another say if they heard us bickering about toal BS like, who solved the enigma Code and w/e. Just stop, it is completely pointless.

Your right there Szarlotka, but atleast they admitted it at the very end of the film!

Agree 100%. We fought together against a common enemy (at the time, not now) to preserve the freedom that allows us to sit here and write to each other like this. Many brave men and women gave their lives for that freedom. Many mistakes were made and will always be made in war. Move on. As Artur said.

The English of course. We know this. But the RAF needed seasoned fliers. The Poles, Czechs and French were just that. They fought the Luftwaffe more often than the British had, before the Nazi's sights turned on UK herself. The RAF pilots were being very fast and therefore were not completely ready to fight the veterans of the NAzi airforce. Thats where the foreign pilots came in. They helped stall for time and kill as many opposing airmen as long as they could so that the UK had a chance to fight back.

We are not trying to take all the glory for the battle of Britain. We are mearly stating that without us or the others the UK's chances would have been much lower. We killed over twice our numbers. Does that really mean nothing to you at all??? 5% kill 12%, and then 95% killed 88%. Look at it proportionately.

You did most of the flying, but we helped a great deal. Why not accept this?

I do. My Father told me that many of the dog fighting tactics that were changed during the Batlle of Britain came from the pilots who had already had experience of fighting the Luftwaffe. He actually credited his own personal survival to their input

I get very touchy on this subject. Too many men with my last name died and aren't honored today for people to say we weren't essential. We were 4th on the Allied contributing list and most Brits hold the French as more valuable allies than the Polish.

I know you do I was talking to ajgraham becuase I guess we Poles didn't help enough in WW2.

And I can appreciate why you do. I'm sorry this argument is even necessary.

It's alright. Maybe one day the world gets a Universal History educational course. Same thing is taught in each country but in their own langauge, so we can avoid stupid quarrels like this. Everyone will get the same and TRUE story. Each side is told, and nobody can complain. If I had things my way it would definitely be that way, and we'd get maybe 2-3 more years of learning put in. God knows we all need it.

The first casualty of war is truth. Maybe the first casualty of peace is reason

i think it is men that bring on alot of wars! anger and agression resides in a large majority of men, wouldnt the world be a better place without all this hatred, men need to take a step back and just chill!

sorry to offend any men but you have to admit there is some truth in it,oh and i dont hate men by the way!!

indeed... and behind every man stands a woman...

exactly.

I seem to vaguely recall a certain Iron Lady being reponsible for my being shot at in the South Atlantic.

i dont stand behind any man especially a man wh encourages racism, hatred, aggression etc etc etc!!!