CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS....

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Sep 27, 09, 21:08 #61

Through this controlled and steered recession, you mean? To tie this in with Poland, former President Kwaśniewski recently had talks with high-level officials and found that the strings are being pulled and there are those who can take us out of recession whenever they want. I don't completely believe that as you need to reactivate business concerns across-the-board by stimulus packages and also the restoration of confidence (key in a country like America). Still, Bernarki has a lot to answer for.

Personally, I welcome more foreign contractors, albeit on a limited scale. Poland was the beneficiary of much inward investment and its profile was raised by this injection of foreign capital.

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Edited by: sadieann Sep 27, 09, 21:24 #62

Seanus:

I don't completely believe that as you need to reactivate business concerns across-the-board by stimulus packages [/quote
[quote=Seanus]controlled and steered recession, you mean?

Agree, bailouts and selectively reducing the pressures in our economy and the political passage of a Democrat vs. Republican. With this in mind, do you think a recession does benefit the select in the long run and if so, how? Interesting point.
Agree. The recent Auto Stimulus already has repercussions. 'Cash for Clunkers?' or 'Cash Back?' Prime example of steering the select would be the Banks. How did that benefit the Country as a whole?

Seanus:

Poland was the beneficiary of much inward investment and its profile was raised by this injection of foreign capital.

Yes, Foreign Capital directed in the right direction is positive.

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Sep 27, 09, 21:38 #63

I've discussed this with many Americans and they all agree that the feelgood factor needs to return. Yes, we are all at the mercy of the big and powerful who throw good money after bad but, at the same time, our awareness of how the economy works and impacts on our lives so directly is raised. We should see it as a learning step. America needs to look inside and see just how exactly the concept of 'the self-made man/woman' came about.

Anyway, this is a digression again and I'm heading for a deserved warning from the Mods. How come you haven't had dealings with the Chinese? Conscious decision or it just happened that way? It will be funny seeing Chinamen building roads here. Little men controlling such big drills etc etc :)

sadieannThreads: 4 Posts: 320 Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♀	Sep 27, 09, 21:45 #64
Seanus: digression again Your points were good and interesting. I own a Building Contracting Company. It hasn't been a conscious decision to work or not work with the Chinese. They simply are not currently in this line of work. As stated, earlier, competition is with the Russian owned companies who employ cheap labor.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 27, 09, 22:02 #65
But surely the Russians can't beat you in your own backyard!? As you said, you may be in a spot of bother if companies are satisfied with those standards (quality, getting what you pay for etc) but surely they know that quality guarantees are worthwhile and paying a bit more makes sense? Still, it is the crisis after all ;) ;)

sadieannThreads: 4 Posts: 320 Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♀	Sep 27, 09, 22:26 #66
Seanus: But surely the Russians can't beat you in your own backyard!? Not beating; competing! It's not my backyard anymore. I have to share it. Large Russian population. Quality, has proven survival.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 27, 09, 22:33 #67
Well, I fear they may be winning as undercutting is the name of the game amongst some business types. Not everyone plays ball as you know.

sadieannThreads: 4 Posts: 320 Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♀	Sep 27, 09, 22:35 #68
Yes, very well. Literally, potential Mafia. So far, no one buried in cement.

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Sep 28, 09, 04:16 #69

wildrover

Do not exaggerate the problem
I would like to ask what kind of material is your sandwich box made of?
china? paper? plastic or stainless steel?
I guess your sandwich box you bought is made of special plastic or stainless steel(in our market, that is)
so do all the friends in this forum believe that plastic or the stainless steel can break into pieces in three days?
do you cut them with some cuting machine?
my meal box acompany me for 2 years, but it did't fall into pieces like you said
and the most important point is they are made by our Chinese workers
why?

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Sep 28, 09, 17:00 #70

mocpc:

Do not exaggerate the problem

Well i thought i was just stating a fact...no exageration , honest...The sandwich box i bought in the UK is made of Tough polythene , after five or more years of hard use its still in perect condition...The one i bought in Poland is made of brittle plastic , and after being used a couple of times it just fractured and fell to bits...these are the facts , i have not added anything to the story to make it more exiting...Its just another example of goods made cheaply that fail to do the job they were bought for...

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Sep 29, 09, 02:52 #71

wildrover
ok, I think we have a consensus
that is "you got what you pay for", isn't it?
so please do not pin this problem only on Chinese
we Chinese can make good quality products
they are experienced enough to produce something or build road
the problem is can you offer us a good price to buy good material and employ good workers
of course, we admit we have many things done not so proper before
but we are adjusting ourselves

ZachariahThreads: 1 Posts: 30 Joined: Jun 24, 09 ♂	Sep 29, 09, 15:11 #72
I am confidant that the Chinese will do a good job and that it will be money well spent. If they fail to deliver to expectations then I will run down these Chinese built roads naked and post it on Youtube for all to see :) mocpc: we Chinese can make good quality products they are experienced enough to produce something or build road I hear you buddy :)

RevokeNiceThreads: 21 Posts: 2,459 Joined: Jun 20, 09 ♂	Sep 30, 09, 01:16 #73
Will the Chinese be paid Polish minimu wage? If not, why not? It is illegal under EU regulations and further accelerates the race to the bottom. Why, is a country that is exporting its people en masse, importing foreigners to build their roads?

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♂	Sep 30, 09, 01:36 #74
RevokeNice: Why, is a country that is exporting its people en masse, importing foreigners to build their roads? Now that... is a very good question.

sadieannThreads: 4 Posts: 320 Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♀	Sep 30, 09, 01:39 #75
Chinese won because of 'low bid' (60% less). First, suppose to hire Poles, but it's anticipated that their own labor will be brought in before end of completion. Wages, Chinese are to obey Polish and EU laws.

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Sep 30, 09, 01:43 #76

sadieann:

Chinese won because of 'low bid' (60% less).

Yes, but what if it goes over budget? These things tend to do so.

Also, if a Polish firm won the tender, the capital would not leave the country, thus stimulating local business.

sadieann:

First, suppose to hire Poles, but it's anticipated that their own labor will be brought in before end of completion.

From Irish media, it seems Chinese are being imported over by the company.

sadieann:

Wages, Chinese are to obey Polish and EU laws.

Would you put your house on that? I suggest you look up the Laval case in Sweden or the GAMA case in Ireland.

sadieannThreads: 4 Posts: 320 Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♀	Sep 30, 09, 01:49 #77
RN: misunderstood what I stated. Read my previous posts. I am not a believer in importing OUR jobs. I'm shocked that Poland would do so. I wrote post #115 sarcastically. This is how the Chinese built roads are trying to be justified? Go figure.

RevokeNiceThreads: 21 Posts: 2,459 Joined: Jun 20, 09 ♂	Sep 30, 09, 01:53 #78
sadieann It sets a dangerous precedent. The scum in Brussels will be scratching their collective heads whilst muttering to themselves "why didnt we think of that". To be honest, I am completely baffled as to why Poland, a country with massive emigration of its youth, is outsourcing basic construction work to a non EU country. Its mindboggling.

sadieannThreads: 4 Posts: 320 Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♀	Sep 30, 09, 01:56 #79
RevokeNice: dangerous precedent Extremely.

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Edited by: jwojcie Sep 30, 09, 11:50 #80

A few facts:
1. Currently in Poland there is about 595km motorways (class A or S) under construction
2. Current or planned tenders amount to about another 1000km (class A or S)
3. Chinese won contract on part of A2 (about 50km)
4. It is less than 10% of total current road construction in Poland (and I only count class A and S highways, without roads with smaller parameters)
5. Beside that, there is a lot of construction concerning Euro2012 (stadiums, hotels, etc.)

Summary: belive it or not Poland currently is one of the biggest building sites in Europe. Modern building industry requires skills. So despite of 11% unemployment there is shortage of skilled workers. Because of that building companies only year ago demanded ridiculous money, and it was then, when Polish Goverment asked Chinese companies to bid in tenders. Suddenly the world crisis came, funnily together with Chinese companies :-) (as polish proverb goes: "misfortune goes in pairs" :-) )
And suddenly turned out that even Polish and European companies can build for 40% less... It was European (Poilsh included) companies greed which drawned Chinese here... And in that context I'm ok with that! :-)

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Oct 1, 09, 02:29 #81

My two cents ;)

I find it interesting that a Chinese company won a contract in Poland to build roads; I mean I think it’s great actually.

The world is changing so much and it was just a matter of time until a contract like this was signed.

I know there are probably a lot of Polish people upset over the fact that Polish people are not the ones building the road let alone won the contract. The world is in recession and Poland for the most part averted it, but it would have been nice to see the jobs go to hard working Poles

Which I guess brings me to my next comment.

Now cheap labor is always in demand (Anywhere) and this contract was obviously low balled. I read COUNTLESS threads about Brits being pissed about the 600,000 Poles in Britain and how they are for a lack of better words “taking our jobs”. My point being now that Poles have seen someone else take there jobs, they thought they were entitled to get in their own country is the definition of IRONYYYYYYY

Amazing when the tables are turned, isn’t it!

RevokeNiceThreads: 21 Posts: 2,459 Joined: Jun 20, 09 ♂	Edited by: RevokeNice Oct 1, 09, 02:43 #82
Happymeal: Amazing when the tables are turned, isn’t it! No. I do not find it ironic, the Poles who did not emigrate can complain as loud as they like. I want Polish workers to be able to find employment in their own native land. Same for Ireland, Sweden and any other nation in the EU. They chinese have found a large chink in the EUs armour. ;)

bolekThreads: 10 Posts: 369 Joined: Sep 13, 08 ♂	Oct 1, 09, 02:45 #83
Happymeal: Amazing when the tables are turned, isn’t it! it only shows how Poles cannot get there act together and be more competitive, the chinese have NOT got a good track record in anything they do except cheating and breaking copywrites, The Polish government only encourages a breach of human rights and you can rest assured that any Chinese labour will be slave labour.

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Edited by: RevokeNice Oct 1, 09, 03:07 #84

bolek:

The Polish government only encourages a breach of human rights and you can rest assured that any Chinese labour will be slave labour.

Quite right, Bolek. These psuedo leftists are scum.

Before anyone starts waffling on about the Chinese being cheaper, wait until you see how over budget they go. Wait until you see how many of the Chinese workers decide to stay. Compare that to the money spent, in the local economy, by Polish workers, if they got the tender.

It may have been more expensive to give them the tender, but if they got the work and spent ther cash in the local economy, it would have had a more positive effect in Poland. Now, the Polish government will have to pay them social welfare. Thus, paying more money and losing out on tax revenue. Now, all the money will go back to China.

I will give you advice from Ireland, Bolek. Let the rallying cry be heard, Polish jobs for Polish workers.

How come no politician claims that the Chinese would be cheaper, better and more skilled than themselves?

bolekThreads: 10 Posts: 369 Joined: Sep 13, 08 ♂	Edited by: bolek Oct 1, 09, 07:44 #85
RevokeNice: Polish jobs for Polish workers Thats what I have been saying all the time, lets all agree on this one....cheers.

Knut34Threads: - Posts: 2 Joined: Nov 12, 09 ♂	Nov 12, 09, 19:16 #86
As long as the Chinese do not drive in Europe they can do what they want to.

johnsoninbeijinThreads: - Posts: 2 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♂	Edited by: johnsoninbeijin Dec 9, 09, 08:22 #87
God, the polish people need lots of quality checker! I do not believe the Chinese construction companies, they sucking too much. Even I am a Chinese!

jlb74

Dec 9, 09, 18:50 #88

The fact is, chinese companies still 'train' country peasants for a whopping $4.00 a day for manual labor, up from $2.00 a day 10-15 years ago. I got this info from a Chinese IT fellow worker back then.

The Chinese have no shame, it is part of their culture that even folks of chinese descent recognize and acknowledge.

A case in point, China had the summer Olympics in 2008 and within 90 days after the games were over, around October/November timeframe, it was discover that the new stadium built in Beijing for the opening ceremonies was begining to deteriorate, paint was peeling off metal throught the stadium, pieces of metal were rusting up, etc... Mind you, this is something they built for themselves.

90 days people... 90 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!

While traveling in Poland via PKP, I saw a few construction projects going on. My issue is that I only saw just a few workers for such a big project. I dont exactly know if this is related to funds availability, budgets, etc... this is part of the reason why it takes so long.

I agree with many of you. Polish people should demand that their government awards these type of projects to Polish or EU companies. I prefer it to be Polish but I dont mind if they are EU firms cuz these firms employ Polish workers in direct or indirect ways.

You paid your tax to your goverment, you should demand, they should listen.

It is not the governments money, is your f_ucking money!!!

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Dec 10, 09, 10:16 #89

jlb74:

You paid your tax to your goverment, you should demand, they should listen.
It is not the governments money, is your f_ucking money!!!

Exactly because of that Chinese companies were invited almost two years ago. There is really HUGE and MASSIVE road building program in Poland right now. Because of simple law of demand and supply Polish and Western developers wanted enormous sums of money. The goal of Chinese participation was to bring more competition into highly uncompetitive envirement. The goal was to spare some tax money, yes, my money :-) Well, bad lack for devs that shortly after world crisis came... So now, everybody wants to build for 60% of original price...

Btw, Chinese won tender for less than 10% of total current road construction in Poland (and I only count class A and S highways, without roads with smaller parameters). So there is not like out of the sudden they took over entire market. They are more like a warning for local devs from gov: "Don't be so greedy, you are not alone in the universe..."

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Mar 5, 10, 04:43 #90

well Chinese goods do have the good ones and the bad ones.
Human mentality is always focus on the cheap stuff...

"Look its the same design, and the price is 2 or 3 times cheaper." and so they buy it.

As far as what I know, the impression on Chinese goods are cheap and easily broken. It doesn't last long.
Which is true... IKEA has the similar products. Don't they! ???

construction wise, hopefully not. It would involve lifes of people.

cheers people.

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