Euro Outs and Ins

♂

Mar 11, 11, 15:38 #1

ONE fear of European Union members outside the euro, either by choice or because they are not ready to join it, has been that they will be cut out of the big decisions being taken in Brussels. One hope of many of the euro’s founder members was the obverse: that the club would become more politically and economically integrated. That original tension between wide consultation and tight integration is now bubbling over in arguments over whether the euro-zone heads of government should have regular summits.

Poland, a leading euro “out”, was horrified when a leak revealed internal German correspondence on the “competitiveness pact” proposed by Chancellor Angela Merkel and the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy. This confirmed the danger of a two-speed Europe that locked out non-euro countries and sidelined the European Commission. Yet Poland sees Germany as its best friend in the EU.

http://www.economist.com/node/18333103?story_id=18333103&fsrc=rss

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Mar 11, 11, 15:40 #2
Erm..."Euro-out" countries should have influence in Euro-matters because....?

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,440 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Edited by: PennBoy Mar 11, 11, 15:46 #3
Bratwurst Boy: Erm..."Euro-out" countries should have influence in Euro-matters because....? Not in Euro but European matters, they fear countries outside the zone will be looked at differently from the ones inside it, even though all are supposed to be EU.

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Mar 11, 11, 15:48 #4

PennBoy:

Not in Euro but European matters, they fear countries outside the zone will be looked at differently from the ones outside it, even though all are supposed to be EU.

But the article was about Euro-matters, the "competitiveness pact" by Merkel and Sarkozy.

It's about Euro-matters:

...The Poles will continue to fight plans to move decision-making from the 27 to the 17, accepting the smaller group only for matters directly related to the euro...

Again...non-Euro countries should have a say in Euro-matters because....?

♂

Edited by: PennBoy Mar 11, 11, 15:57 #5

Bratwurst Boy:

But the article was about Euro-matters, the "competitiveness pact" by Merkel and Sarkozy.

"This confirmed the danger of a two-speed Europe that locked out non-euro countries and sidelined the European Commission." I guess Poland see's it differently, that they'll be sidelined in all important EU matters. And to answer your question, no they should have a say if they're not in the zone.

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Mar 11, 11, 16:04 #6

PennBoy:

I guess Poland see's it differently, that they'll be sidelined in all important EU matters.

No...only in Euro-matters, those are not important for non-Euro countries!

Tiny but fiscally disciplined new Euro-member Estonia will have more say in Euro-matters than non-Euro country Poland will have....and so it should be!

PennBoy:

And to answer your question, no they should have a say if they're not in the zone.

Why?

How about Germany having a say in Zloty-matters?

How about Germany or France or any other EU-country having a say in Dollar-matters?

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,440 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Mar 11, 11, 16:13 #7
Bratwurst Boy: Why? Sorry BB, misspelling I wanted to say no they shouldn't have a say. IF it truly is just about Euro matters than they're making a big deal out of nothing, or the newspaper wants a story.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Mar 11, 11, 16:15 #8
PennBoy: Sorry BB, misspelling I wanted to say no they shouldn't have a say. IF it truly is just about Euro matters than they're making a big deal out of nothing, or the newspaper wants a story. My fault too... :) Anyhow...there still seem to be fears in Poland to be sidelined by Europe...old fears I think. But it's really about Euro-matters only!

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,440 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Mar 11, 11, 16:48 #9
Bratwurst Boy: My fault too... :) Anyhow...there still seem to be fears in Poland to be sidelined by Europe...old fears I think. But it's really about Euro-matters only! You probably know more about what's going on in Poland than me i live across the Atlantic. But it's clear that Poland sees Germany as a best friend (at least in Europe) so this paranoia might vanish.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Mar 11, 11, 16:50 #10
PennBoy: But it's clear that Poland sees Germany as a best friend (at least in Europe) so this paranoia might vanish. Well...the current rational government did alot to stop painting Germany as "still Nazis to watch and to fight" as did previous gov's. That did alot for better relationships...but "best friends" I dunno, that's for the Poles to say.

♂

Mar 11, 11, 17:05 #11

Bratwurst Boy:

Well...the current rational government did alot to stop painting Germany as "still Nazis to watch and to fight" as did previous gov's. That did alot for better relationships...but "best friends" I dunno, that's for the Poles to say.

I heard during the Fifa world cup of 2006 it was Germany's aim to get rid of that Nazi stigma.
I know Kaczynski's intentions were good but he went too far and opened up old wounds. It was Germany who said no EU expansion without Poland, and is the source of most of the money coming from EU funds.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Mar 11, 11, 17:10 #12
Bratwurst Boy: but "best friends" I dunno, No offence, but I seriously doubt it.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Mar 11, 11, 17:11 #13
PennBoy: But it's clear that Poland sees Germany as a best friend (at least in Europe) You really are utterly clueless about Poland, aren't you?!

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Mar 11, 11, 17:11 #14

PennBoy:

I heard during the Fifa world cup of 2006 it was Germany's aim to get rid of that Nazi stigma.

No...that's not true! ;)

We knew it was our chance to advertise Germany as a friendly country rich in culture and beautiful places, to make the WC to a big party and inviting everybody...
"Nazi stigma" had nothing to do with it!
We had big tournaments before...even Olympic games only a few year after the war.

PennBoy:

It was Germany who said no EU expansion without Poland, and is the source of most of the money coming from EU funds.

*nods*

And the more Poland develops the more it's voice will be listened to. It is on it's way to become an important member. During the Kaczinski's rule many Germans despaired and rued the decision to lobby for Polands membership so hard. It was like a slap in the face....but that is over now! :)

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Mar 11, 11, 17:14 #15
PennBoy: I know Kaczynski's intentions were good but he went too far and opened up old wounds. Their intentions were nothing but bad - witness all the hysteria stirred up between Poland and Germany/Russia over absolutely nothing.

NomadatNetThreads: 6 Posts: 1,492 Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂	Mar 12, 11, 01:15 #16
Before Poland, there is a bigger non-Euro country, UK.

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,648 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Mar 12, 11, 01:23 #17
This particular economist article is very poor, it's just pure gossip with a illogical conclusion.

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Poland Now and Then	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 04:13 / May 26
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com