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Your experience as a foreigner running a small business in Polska


posts: 21

al111Threads: 34
Posts: 106
Joined: Sep 2, 09 ♂ 		 Sep 28, 10, 15:19    #1
I'm just curious, but i know there are many of you on here running small businesses in the country. My mate went through hell just getting his registered, he'd moved down here because of the favourable conditions. He came coz the government had said they were looking for foreign investors and mainly to Small and Medium Enterprises. He thought coming here was going to be as easy as they'd said it would be.He detailed me what he went through and most of it i have since heard and experienced considering i have been here for quite sometime now.

My question to you all who are running small businesses as foreigners, for the benefit of those wishing to emulate you how difficult is it really to register and run your own company in this company? Your experiences will be greatly appreciated.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: delphiandomine  Sep 28, 10, 16:21    #2
Absolutely painless from my point of view. Registering was a breeze - two visits to the Urząd Miasta, one visit to the tax office and the job was done. The ZUS side of things was handled by my accountant.

al111:
My mate went through hell just getting his registered, he'd moved down here because of the favourable conditions. He came coz the government had said they were looking for foreign investors and mainly to Small and Medium Enterprises. He thought coming here was going to be as easy as they'd said it would be


I'm not surprised. If you don't do your homework first, instead relying on what PR spokesmen might say - then Poland is always going to be a troublesome experience. In my experience, most problems are caused by two simple things - not reading and not asking. At least in Poznan, absolutely everything is listed - and if you give them what they want, no matter how stupid or idiotic it may be (from a foreign point of view) - then you get what you want.

al111:
My question to you all who are running small businesses as foreigners, for the benefit of those wishing to emulate you how difficult is it really to register and run your own company in this company? Your experiences will be greatly appreciated.


It really isn't difficult at all. But you need to read about the subject first - the people who have problems are often the ones who have a vague idea of how it works, but they don't actually know what they're doing. I saw quite a lot of people registering a business who were doing just that - when I registered, I had the forms filled out in advance, I knew what my business was doing (in regards to PKD codes) and I had all the possible relevant paperwork with me, and copied twice - just in case. Being prepared makes a big difference.

For instance - legally, you should have a zameldowanie and a residence permit (or visa) if you're in Poland for more than 4 days. To start a business, you don't technically need these documents - but if you have them, it makes life much easier. It's just one little thing, but someone who complies with the law in other respects will find it much easier to deal with.

Another example : you should always have a good, competent accountant. If you try to do it yourself, it's just going to cause endless tears and trouble as a foreigner, especially if you can't read the language to a high standard. I've heard so many stories of people having problems - but almost universally, it was because they didn't have the right people doing the right things in place.

I would say that for anyone wishing to have a successful business in Poland, you need to live here for at least a year to become acclimatised to the environment first.
alexw68  Sep 28, 10, 16:30    #3
delphiandomine:
I would say that for anyone wishing to have a successful business in Poland, you need to live here for at least a year to become acclimatised to the environment first.

100% true, and in many cases will solve most of the issues. BUT Poznań is way better than most places for this kind of thing as they're now used to it. Go to any smaller city and it's still highly probable that the urzędnicy have rather less than a clue.
MoonlightingThreads: 60
Posts: 308
Joined: Apr 28, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Moonlighting  Sep 28, 10, 16:31    #4
In my case, registration was quick and easy and the same goes for all other things like opening a bank account, registering for social security and tax office.

Beware though of who you call in as a legal advisor and accountant. Poland, like all poor countries, are full of people who will claim they can do everything for you just to make you one of their customers, although they don't have the required level of expertise or simply no clue of what you expect from that kind of professional relationship.
warszawskiThreads: 60
Posts: 2,385
Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Sep 28, 10, 16:35    #5
delphiandomine:

I would say that for anyone wishing to have a successful business in Poland, you need to live here for at least a year to become acclimatised to the environment first.


Very strong point. If you can somehow get involved in the sector you are going to invest your hard earned cash into, that would also be a very big plus.

Do not be afraid to seek out a business partner outside of your family.
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,727
Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		 Sep 28, 10, 20:43    #6
al111:
how difficult is it really to register and run your own company in this company?

Easy enough.

delphiandomine:
I knew what my business was doing (in regards to PKD codes)

It's a funny thing because if you tick box of what your business is doing it costs nothing but if you want to change it in future you have to pay for the courts to change it.
And sure who knows what the future holds, so I went through the list ticking possibilities.
AjbThreads: 12
Posts: 340
Joined: Jul 14, 08 ♂ 		 Sep 28, 10, 21:36    #7
al111:
how difficult is it really to register and run your own company in this company


I agree with the above, very easy, in fact all offices involves were very helpful and even gave advice..... something I'm not so used to in PL :)

I even sorted my own ZUZ (I say I, but i mean my Polish missis) Although now my accountant sorts everything for me, great guy and worth the 90zl a month!

SeanBM:
It's a funny thing because if you tick box of what your business is doing it costs nothing but if you want to change it in future you have to pay for the courts to change it.


I have this problem... i need to add a new code, but I'm heading out and seeing the cost tomorrow, hopefully its not expensive!
al111Threads: 34
Posts: 106
Joined: Sep 2, 09 ♂ 		 Sep 29, 10, 07:19    #8
Thank you all for your contributions and for shedding a bit of light on this topic i hope this will be of benefit to all those hoping to run their businesses in Poland.
thorgallplThreads: -
Posts: 3
Joined: Dec 29, 08 ♂ 		 Sep 29, 10, 12:04    #9
Well, Poland is relatively poor if we compare it with the likes of UK or Norway. But hey, everywhere you go there are people who are incompetent and try to sell you things which are of poor quality. Poland is no exception.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Sep 29, 10, 12:10    #10
SeanBM:
It's a funny thing because if you tick box of what your business is doing it costs nothing but if you want to change it in future you have to pay for the courts to change it.
And sure who knows what the future holds, so I went through the list ticking possibilities.


Yep, I added all sorts of useless things - I even registered "fake jewellery production" just in case :P
AjbThreads: 12
Posts: 340
Joined: Jul 14, 08 ♂ 		 Sep 29, 10, 13:05    #11
delphiandomine:
"fake jewellery production"


PROMOCIA!!!!

Buy one English lesson! Get a Fake bracelet!!!

Call delp now on 0800 69 69 69

:)
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Sep 29, 10, 13:34    #12
delphiandomine:
Yep, I added all sorts of useless things - I even registered "fake jewellery production" just in case :P

Are you trying to muscle in on my turf?
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,470
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		 Sep 29, 10, 13:48    #13
delphiandomine:
you need to live here for at least a year to become acclimatised to the environment first.

yes indeedy.

warszawski:
Do not be afraid to seek out a business partner outside of your family.

You taking the p1ss? they'll shaft you left, right and center given half a chance. By all means have assistance but keep them on a very short leash.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Sep 29, 10, 13:49    #14
WB is right on the second point. Some companies are just short term and unsustainable concerns. I wouldn't roll with an unknown element at all.
Alexander_KThreads: 2
Posts: 5
Joined: Oct 2, 10 ♂ 		 Oct 2, 10, 00:38    #15
delphiandomine:
Another example : you should always have a good, competent accountant.


Can you please advise what will be the costs of such accountant on per month basis? I mean that of course I would not hire him/her permanently and there will not be too much job - something like "subscription" with an accounting firm or an independent accountant?
AjbThreads: 12
Posts: 340
Joined: Jul 14, 08 ♂ 		 Oct 2, 10, 08:08    #16
SeanBM:
if you want to change it in future you have to pay for the courts to change it


I went and added 4 new PKD codes and a grand total of nothing! They even send the amended zaświadczenie in the post, as i don't have time to pick it up next week!

Alexander_K:
Can you please advise what will be the costs of such accountant on per month basis?

I pay 90zl a month, he sorts out my business expenses, income tax and files what ever paperwork is needed.
Most importantly he speaks English!

Although one guy wanted 250zl a month!
KazikowskiThreads: 23
Posts: 107
Joined: Oct 2, 08 ♂ 		 Jun 15, 11, 12:38    #17
delphiandomine:
I would say that for anyone wishing to have a successful business in Poland, you need to live here for at least a year to become acclimatised to the environment first.


Resurrecting an old topic...

Is my quoted sentence for real? For those who have businesses, would u strongly recommend learning the ropes of the country first, and only then go into business? If there is no reasonable work or employment to be had, then the only option is to create work by creating a business, regardless of whether one is familiar to the country.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 15, 11, 12:44    #18
Kazikowski:
For those who have businesses, would u strongly recommend learning the ropes of the country first, and only then go into business?


Strongly so. Poland is a very specific place - and if you don't know how people are thinking, they'll take advantage of you. A good example - people will simply often refuse to pay, or lie outright about why they haven't paid. They'll also convince you that you don't actually need a contract - or often refuse to sign one.

Kazikowski:
If there is no reasonable work or employment to be had, then the only option is to create work by creating a business, regardless of whether one is familiar to the country.


And that will almost certainly result in ruin. Poland isn't a place for those who need a safety net - if you get into a financial mess, they'll come for you quickly. With the lack of options, you can easily find yourself in a financial mess with no means to get out of it.
alexw68  Jun 15, 11, 12:45    #19
Kazikowski:
If there is no reasonable work or employment to be had, then the only option is to create work by creating a business, regardless of whether one is familiar to the country.

That's just naive - unless you have a local partner whom you can trust (that's not a reflection on Poles; it is a reflection on how careful you have to be with any partnership, even in a family business) with the accounting, tax law, other red tape you're sunk without some understanding of how things work. That doesn't even have to mean speaking Polish if the above institutions - or intermediaries - can provide you with English-language services. Delph, I assume your accountant is English-speaking, right?

Without a background, how are you going to do any market research? Advertise, promote effectively? (Unless you're thinking of eg IT outsourcing where your market's not local anyway). Come on man, it's a jungle out there, you need every advantage you can get. Next to no local knowledge is anything but.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 15, 11, 13:05    #20
alexw68:
That's just naive - unless you have a local partner whom you can trust (that's not a reflection on Poles; it is a reflection on how careful you have to be with any partnership, even in a family business) with the accounting, tax law, other red tape you're sunk without some understanding of how things work. That doesn't even have to mean speaking Polish if the above institutions - or intermediaries - can provide you with English-language services.


I'd actually say that family members can be terrible in Poland - I heard about one guy who trusted his wife's father with some building investments. Unsurprisingly, her father made a complete mess of it - he had no experience in this sort of thing, nor with that sort of money.

I'd say that it takes a year just to learn who you can trust and who you can't - especially as in Poland, a nice image is no guarantee of quality. I know of several useless accountants who speak English and charge fairly high prices for basic work - yet mine, who has a small office in the middle of the osiedle, is fantastic. Looking at the place, you'd never consider it to be of high quality - but the service is second to none. She also practices a very 'safety-first' attitude with taxes - never deducting anything questionable without checking it out first.

alexw68:
Delph, I assume your accountant is English-speaking, right?


Actually, no - but my wife uses the same accountant for her business, so there's no real need for me to have an English speaking one for mine. But if I was to do anything more complicated than English teaching, I'd be looking for someone who really knew what they were talking about.

alexw68:
Without a background, how are you going to do any market research? Advertise, promote effectively? (Unless you're thinking of eg IT outsourcing where your market's not local anyway). Come on man, it's a jungle out there, you need every advantage you can get. Next to no local knowledge is anything but.


I'd say that without a local background, it's almost certain that the locals will take advantage. Even little things such as accountancy fees - I know someone who was paying nearly 2000zl a month for something that should have cost about 500zl a month!
teflcatThreads: 6
Posts: 1,071
Joined: May 29, 11 ♂ 		 Jun 15, 11, 16:28    #21
I pay 130PLN per month for my accountancy. It didn't cost me anything when I added to my profile. Be sure you can cover ZUS payments, which you have to find whether you have a good month or a bad one. When starting up you might go several months on a low income, so be sure to have a cash cushion till you get things moving profitably. The admin is very simple for small firms.


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