Kaczyński doubts the Euro currency will survive

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Mar 25, 10, 12:42 #1

President Kaczyński has recently cast doubt on whether the euro would survive in the long run. Many Poles fear the whole hyperbureaucratised EU will eventually collapse. What do you think?
Anyone know the total number of staff of the EU and other European structrues (EP, Council of Europe, WEU, Strabourg Tribunal, EBRD, etc., etc.) and what the toal budget of these is? Maybe I don't know how to look, but I couldn't find such clear, all-inclusive stats on the net.

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Mar 25, 10, 12:52 #2

The thing is, the bureaucrats will have the backing of many members of the public as they see the Euro as a convenient currency, negating the need for constant exchanges. There are plans to phase in the Emero but that is way down the line. Those who have an interest in its preservation and have the power to preserve it will do just that. I know what Kaczyński has in mind but I feel that the Euro is here to stay. It's part of the drive towards a more fuller form of economic integration and 'an ever closer union'.

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Mar 25, 10, 13:39 #3

Seanus:

There are plans to phase in the Emero but that is way down the line.

Do you mean Amero? If so that's a total hoax. Nothing is "planned" but it's often brought up by conspiracy theorists (I do not mean you), the kind of people who believe 9/11 was a government plot, or a Jew plot, or a drug cartel plot, and Obama is not an American citizen, etc., etc. The US will join the EU before we get the Amero - in other words it'll never happen.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Mar 25, 10, 13:53 #4
Greece is a good test for how well the Euro can cope when one of the member countries grossly undermines its financial underpinnings. How much are other members willing to contribute in order to keep it stable? At least Greece is still manageable...what happens when Spain or Italy start having problems?

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Mar 25, 10, 14:17 #5

I strongly doubt that euro will be abandoned altogether, nevertheless I was shocked when the case of nearly-bankrupt Greece emerged. This is a case demonstrating that the concept of "trust" is understood differently in different European countries. What I mean is in fact a certain opposition between "northern" and "southern" Europe, or to put it another way between the "protestant" and the "Latin or Catholic" Europe, with the UK, the Benelux, Germany and Scandinavia being in the former, and Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece in the latter (France in between perhaps). The CEB bankers now say of Greece: 'we couldn't have supposed they would be cheating us', and I am inclined to believe them as they indeed would have never assumed the Dutch or the Swedish could have been cheating them, so they thought the same of the Greeks.

The line between "northerners" and "southerners" in Europe cannot, of course, be very precise. But there is something in it within this case of the euro crisis. I remember my English teacher telling me her experience with other students in her classes in London where she used to learn English in an international group of people. Their British teacher used to remind the Spanish students of the group: Tomorrow the lesson starts at 10. And listen, you Spanish people, when I say at 10, I mean at 10, not a quarter past ten or at half past 10! Where is Poland in that division between "north" and "south"? I'd say somewhere in between, though since the time of the currency reform by Mr. Grabski in 1924, and thanks to the financial reform of Mr. Balcerowicz later on, I'd say Poland is closer to the "north" than to the "south" of Europe in terms of public finances and the central banking thing.

king polkagamon

Edited by: king polkagamon Mar 25, 10, 16:18 #6

Even the rocks knew here that the government lied to the Europeans.I have written in this forum many times that they manipulated statistics.It was known one way or another they do such stupid things you want sometimes to take their heads and break them on the wall.
I lose my patience when sb lies in my face.

I will try to describe why the North does better than the South:
1.IQ.The northern Europeans have higher IQ.I sensed that in Germany.Not that mediteraneans are dumb but the average is not in the level of the North
2.Natural resources.There are even regions with no water in the South
3.Physical power.Northern body type is more suitable for factory work than mediteranean body type.Mediteraneans get tired easily.Average Germanic has more endurance.
4.Craftmanship:Germanics work better with their hands in repetitive detailed work than the Mediteraneans
5.Organization:Germanics have a much higher level of organization than Mediteraneans.This has to do also with the IQ difference.
6.Social control.There is too much social control and ethics in Protestant countries than in catholic ones.In orthodox countries there is no social control and no morals just corruption.
7.Historical differences:Mediteranean countries were under roman control and people there have developed slave mentality or more precisely cunning slave mentality.Germanic countries stayed mostly out of roman control and as a result people there have the mentality of the free barbarian.

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Mar 25, 10, 16:28 #7

The Euro won't be abandoned; Europe has staked too much in it. Some countries (Greece, Portugal) may be booted out, but I seriously, highly doubt that the Euro Area will fall apart.
Some countries may think twice before joining the Euro (Poland first and foremost), but I think that the general trend is that the Euro will become the currency for most of the EU (England will probably never go over to the Euro.) The recent crisis is just going to stall it a bit. They'll take what they've learned and demand more transparency with countries' finances (Greece hid most of its debt with the help of Goldman Sachs) and they'll also probably be more strict in enforcing the conditions of the treaties, especially in the area of debt.

Harry:

Seanus is one of the people who believes 9/11 was a government plot.

Those people are idiots.

http://polishmeknob.blogspot.com/2010/03/its-official-buy-zoty.html
http://polishmeknob.blogspot.com/2010/03/oh-euro.html

king polkagamon	Edited by: king polkagamon Mar 25, 10, 16:37 #8
Greece Italy and Spain will be forced out of euro to provide cheaper vaccations for the Germanics who will keep the euro in a tight zone of countries.(mostly Germanic).

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08 ♂	Mar 25, 10, 16:39 #9
king polkagamon: Greece The prices shot up by a huge amount when Greece took on the Euro (holiday wise)

king polkagamon

Edited by: king polkagamon Mar 25, 10, 16:41 #10

Of course they shot up.And do you know why?Because our geniuses lied to Europeans about the real deficit in order to get into the euro.

Basically the Germanics think like that:If Greece keeps the euro they will buy 50000 German cars more.If they get out of euro we will be benefited some billions from the cheap vaccations.What is more beneficial to us?Selling them cars or having cheap holidays?How much can each market extend?They do their calculations and decide whether or not you keep the euro.

Think Twice

Mar 25, 10, 16:50 #11

king polkagamon:

Of course they shot up.And do you know why?Because our geniuses lied to Europeans about the real deficit in order to get into the euro.

Sounds familiar ?

Brussels asks Warsaw to act on deficit

24th March 2010
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The European Union has asked the Polish government to take decisive action to reduce its budget deficit following the publication of the country's highest unemployment in three years and meager retail sales figures.

Brussels has described the government's public finance reform plan as vague and overly optimistic.

"The projections are based on favourable macroeconomic assumptions and the planned expenditure savings in 2011 and 2012 are not supported by sufficiently concrete measures," an EU executive said in a statement in Brussels. "Fiscal consolidation is heavily back-loaded as most of the deficit reduction is projected to take place in 2012."

Poland intends to reduce its deficit to below the EU's maximum three percent of GDP by 2012. It currently stands at 7.2 percent. (RG)

Source: Thomson Reuters

king polkagamon	Mar 25, 10, 20:19 #12
Pity the French pressed for compromise and the EU will give money to our incompetent middle class.It was a chance to destroy them but they have international bonds middle class members support each other.

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Mar 26, 10, 09:18 #13

Think Twice:

Sounds familiar ?
Brussels asks Warsaw to act on deficit

It sounds familiar in the sense that Brussels has waken up from its winter sleep (you can check for yourself that winter is over and spring is around). Unfortunately though, when Brussels slept, the Greek bear together with one of the American grizzlies, Goldman Sachs, decided to rob Brussels of its honey pots during that winter time. Now Brussels is back at its senses, but being half-asleep after waking up from its long dreams of grandeur, mistakes the Polish bear for the Greek bear.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 26, 10, 09:24 #14
I believe it was deliberate government omission. There is no way that the US government didn't know about it. As for the Amero, it may yet happen but it would take some doing. The EURO will cause problems here so we are better off without it. It's not a good thing for Poland.

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Edited by: skysoulmate Mar 26, 10, 14:38 #15

Seanus:

I believe it was deliberate government omission. There is no way that the US government didn't know about it.

As for the Amero, it may yet happen but it would take some doing. The EURO will cause problems here so we are better off without it. It's not a good thing for Poland.

What omission are you talking about? I'm confused...

Also, are you implying that our (the US) government knew something about the European issues when they miscalculated our own 10 year budget deficit by more than 1.2 trillion dollars? Hmm, either you're giving our government too much credit or I'm underestimating it... Not sure who's right.

As far as Amero - that' a total myth. No politician involved in the monetary policy in the US, Canada or Mexico has ever suggested it and if he/she did it'd be a political suicide. I predict that 100 years from now there's still no Amero (of course by then we're all using the Renminbi - Red China's "People's Money).

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 26, 10, 14:45 #16
They let it happen by omission. I've seen stacks of credible evidence from all sides and see it clearly. Look at the interview of Coleen Rowley, the film 'The Flying Circus' and the documentary ZERO to name but 3. Dov Zakheim knows about such figures, please ask him.

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Mar 26, 10, 14:46 #17
Seanus: They let it happen by omission. Let what happen? That's what I'm confused about.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 26, 10, 14:50 #18
The attacks. They needed a pretext and they got it. Anyway, this is about the EURO. Kaczyński seems to be against any form of modernisation. I wonder if that man has a communist bank account :)

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Mar 26, 10, 15:00 #19
Seanus: Seanus Today, 14:50 #18 The attacks. They needed a pretext and they got it. Attacks on the Euro? I'm so confused...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 26, 10, 16:56 #20
On the WTC's. The EURO is good for businesspeople generally, not your average Joe or Paweł.

MEMBER ♂

Mar 26, 10, 19:32 #21

The Euro will survive, it has too in order to play with the big boys. i think certain member states that are just along for the ride should be given tough guide lines to which they must abide, if theyre all take and no give - shut off period then "on yer bike".

This Kaczyński geezer's probably worried about his back hander payouts being affected, whatever he must have an agenda.

Euro for Poland? no not yet, Polands not ready at all....

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Mar 26, 10, 20:49 #22
Wroclaw Boy: Euro for Poland? no not yet, Polands not ready at all.... It won't help Poland at all. Control over the currency is one of Polands most powerful weapons in drawing investment and will be the key in long term growth. The Euro brings nothing to the table for Poland. It's only as stable as it's weakest member.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Mar 27, 10, 00:08 #23
convex: It won't help Poland at all. It will help people like me though - the currency exchange is driving me mad. I work out my prices from Euro, but with the Zloty swinging around like mad, it's nearly impossible to set stable prices. In fact, I gave up and decided to work from Zloty instead!

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Mar 27, 10, 01:14 #24

delphiandomine:

It will help people like me though - the currency exchange is driving me mad. I work out my prices from Euro, but with the Zloty swinging around like mad, it's nearly impossible to set stable prices. In fact, I gave up and decided to work from Zloty instead!

Well the £ has no influence, its been driven down to a pulp...why?? To make us join maybe? Eurocrats will do all they can...I know that the Czech rep will not join for a few years I think they said 2019 because they want their economy to be stable and will not be forced..but the currency rates have been obliterated between states that dont have the euro.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Mar 27, 10, 01:18 #25
Kaczyński i like that Kaczyński. Sometimes, i don`t understand him but, nobody is perfect. Once Kacz supported Greater Albania and then when Tusk recognized Kosovo independence, Kacz practically labeled Tusk as idiot. Then, Kacz even refused to allow Polish embassy on Kosovo. See, Kacz is crazy but i like him.

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Edited by: skysoulmate Mar 27, 10, 01:56 #26

Seanus:

On the WTC's.

The EURO is good for businesspeople generally, not your average Joe or Paweł.

Wow, yeah I forgot... Of course, what was I thinking...

Pilots at my previous airline slashed their own throats because they all planned the 911. Oh, did I mention they were all Jews!? Terrorism from within is nothing new, after all a Polish conspiracy pre-planned the German invasion in 1939 and let the German soldiers murder and rape their own. Likewise, the Soviet soldiers in Katyń were actually the victims themselves as a Polish upper class (Jews I'm sure) government conspiracy forced them to kill all the Poles. ...and the UK supplied the Argentinians with weapons and even plans for their own invasion just so they could be attacked by the Argentinians.... The list goes on and on...

New PF motto - Conspiracy Theorists Unite...

Euro stuff I agree with you on, the other stuff - wow!

PS. - can someone explain to me how the google adds got into my reply? I didn't include any links...

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Mar 27, 10, 14:22 #27

There is NO WAY that America would have allowed 9/11, NO WAY. All those screw-ups were no coincidence. It was all on the table before as Aaron Russo said.

The EURO? It's a long way off. Britain fended it off through constant talk of 'fudging' the convergence criteria. Poland tends to stand up for itself so I hope that Tusk doesn't break from tradition and bow to those whose best interests are not with the Polish nation.

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Mar 28, 10, 00:00 #28
There is NO WAY that America would have allowed 9/11, NO WAY. All those screw-ups were no coincidence. It was all on the table before as Aaron Russo said. Most of your posts are very inteligent. The last nonsensical garbage belongs in some Hamas propaganda "we are peaceful people" bombing. Unbelievable... Now I'm just waiting for an input from Piłsudski "proving" the Jews did it...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 28, 10, 00:06 #29
Isn't it ironic that Piłsudski himself was pro-Jewish!? I have swathes of evidence on 9/11 and I know how to present a case, being legally trained.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Mar 28, 10, 00:32 #30
Seanus: I have swathes of evidence on 9/11 There's a fair bit of evidence that a couple of Saudis flew airplanes into buildings because they were pissed off at the great satan.

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