Opening a very small business in Poland

♂

May 29, 11, 20:32 #1

Old acquaintance of mine who is not internet savvy asked me to post this question:-

If a Brit opens a very small biz in Poland (in his case, repairing watches) and does the work from his Polish home by mail order with no shop or business premises as such, what does he need to do and what does he need to pay regarding The Authorities of Poland?

1 Does he need to pay any fees to any Polish Authorities if he is a sole trader and not a Limited company?
2 Does he need to register the business anywhere?
3 Does he have to open a business bank account?
4 Any other tips or advice perhaps?

Thank you.

♀

May 30, 11, 14:15 #2

Your friend will have to register as a sole trader and pay a monthly set of taxes called ZUS. The sole tradership must be registered to an address. I use my permanent address but my business activity does not take place at that location. ZUS which is about 800 zl a month must be paid regardless of turnover of the business. I don't know if watch repair includes VAT. In addition there is income tax. A business bank account is needed and I would suggest the services of an accountant to run the books.

One more point, this friend should become internet savvy or at least functional. It will save a lot of time if your friend pays ZUS and income tax via internet. Also it is the best way to find customers.

Is the business to repair watches for Polish people or mail order repairs for Brits? Your friend will have to learn how to issue invoices as well.

Good luck.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	May 30, 11, 14:19 #3
ChrisPoland: ZUS which is about 800 zl a month must be paid regardless of turnover of the business. I don't know if watch repair includes VAT. is it not true that ZUS is about 300 for the first year?

BritinPolandThreads: 8 Posts: 131 Joined: Oct 30, 10 ♂	May 30, 11, 23:20 #4
Thank you for the replies.

♂ [Suspended]

May 31, 11, 00:42 #5

gumishu:

is it not true that ZUS is about 300 for the first year?

360zl for the first two years. Generally speaking, you can assume costs to be about 500zl for the first two years, then 1000zl a month after that. That's including the cost of an accountant, though.

Worth pointing out that although it seems like robbery, those figures include pension payments and health insurance - and if your business is turning over millions, you still only pay the same social insurance costs.

♂

May 31, 11, 08:35 #6

Thank you D & D

They expect a business to pay all this before even having one customer? Must stifle enterprise hugely. Who's going to take a chance on paying that figure monthly when they don't even know if there will be one reply to their adverts?

These sellers on street corners selling their gas lighters and spring onions paying 800 zl a month?
All those leaflets stuck to bus stops where you tear the phone number off, the owners paying 800 zl a month for the nail polishing or English lessons services?

I'm surprised there's any enterprise here at all if that's the case.

Thanks again, very interesting.

♂ [Suspended]

May 31, 11, 08:41 #7

BritinPoland:

They expect a business to pay all this before even having one customer? Must stifle enterprise hugely. Who's going to take a chance on paying that figure monthly when they don't even know if there will be one reply to their adverts?

Indeed, it's compulsory. But -

BritinPoland:

These sellers on street corners selling their gas lighters and spring onions paying 800 zl a month?
All those leaflets stuck to bus stops where you tear the phone number off, the owners paying 800 zl a month for the nail polishing or English lessons services?

The vast majority of those won't be officially registered. The black economy in Poland is huge - if everything is in cash, the taxman is unlikely to find out or care.

BritinPoland:

I'm surprised there's any enterprise here at all if that's the case.

The normal way of doing things seems to be not registering in the beginning while you build your business, then when you get to around 4000zl profit a month - registering then. ZUS is written off as a business expense, too.

It seems to me that the high costs are a way of forcing people into saving for their retirement - given the Polish attitude, many of them would spend today and never think about tomorrow.

♂

May 31, 11, 08:50 #8

Thanks again D & D, very interesting tips and commentary on the Polish way of life.

I have to add, I take my hat off to the Poles who survive here - the wages are it seems very low compared to the price of food and everyday items like shavers, mattresses, cars, etc. I scratch my head and wonder how anyone affords things - I'm guessing that many have been lured on to credit cards and the never never, pushing prices up still further as demand increased. To me, it seems many Polish prices are not much less than the UK's, and rents and property prices here equally eyebrow raising, especially the latter.

MoonlightingThreads: 60 Posts: 308 Joined: Apr 28, 07 ♂	May 31, 11, 08:58 #9
Britinpoland, You will find all regulations on this official website : http://www.paiz.gov.pl/en See "Polish Law" in the upper right corner.

BritinPolandThreads: 8 Posts: 131 Joined: Oct 30, 10 ♂	May 31, 11, 09:13 #10
Thanks Moonlighting.

♂ [Suspended]

Edited by: delphiandomine May 31, 11, 09:18 #11

BritinPoland:

I have to add, I take my hat off to the Poles who survive here - the wages are it seems very low compared to the price of food and everyday items like shavers, mattresses, cars, etc. I scratch my head and wonder how anyone affords things - I'm guessing that many have been lured on to credit cards and the never never, pushing prices up still further as demand increased. To me, it seems many Polish prices are not much less than the UK's, and rents and property prices here equally eyebrow raising, especially the latter.

Bear in mind though, that many, many, many people pay next to nothing for their property. Many flats have been inherited, or have been purchased for peanuts post-1989 - Poland, as far as I remember, has quite a small mortgage industry compared to the UK. Property prices are only high in the major cities - the cost of living is dramatically lower outside of them.

And again with the wages - bear in mind that these wages are only the "official" ones. Teachers for instance - it might seem that they're low paid, but their compulsory workload is 20 45-minute classes a week. That leaves plenty of time for additional private lessons to bump up their income - and a lot of them do, especially teachers in "better" schools.

We don't see it from the Polish point of view - for instance, we would never "tip" the postman if he delivered cash to us. Yet many people do - that money could easily add up to 500-1000zl extra a month. Heck, you even see people tipping the guy who fills your car with petrol - that could easily add up over the course of a shift.

BritinPolandThreads: 8 Posts: 131 Joined: Oct 30, 10 ♂	May 31, 11, 09:47 #12
I didn't realise all that before, D & D. Lots for me to learn! I don't half wish I'd picked up some property when it was cheap - as you can guess. Prices now seem amazingly high (in the cities) so I'm assuming Poles are finding work and buying them on high income multiple mortgages (something I do not think is a good idea at all), and not just foreigners with money buying these flats.

inkrakowThreads: 2 Posts: 44 Joined: Jan 15, 11 ♀	May 31, 11, 10:38 #13
BritinPoland: I'm guessing that many have been lured on to credit cards and the never never BritinPoland: high income multiple mortgages I think you'd be wrong - the vast majority of Poles earn on the side and pay in cash for everything. Spend what you've saved - a novel concept, eh?

BritinPolandThreads: 8 Posts: 131 Joined: Oct 30, 10 ♂	May 31, 11, 10:55 #14
inkrakow: I think you'd be wrong - the vast majority of Poles earn on the side and pay in cash for everything. Spend what you've saved - a novel concept, eh? Hmm, well must've saved quite a lot then if they can afford the property prices, that's all I can say! (If they have the discipline to save up and spend only what they have, it's a good thing.)

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: ukpolska May 31, 11, 13:38 #15

inkrakow:

the vast majority of Poles earn on the side

BritinPoland:

Hmm, well must've saved quite a lot then if they can afford the property prices, that's all I can say!

You are both wrong actually, as if their parents are not rich and unable to provide them with a property, then most young Poles gain financial help from their family in some way in gaining a mortgage through for example by, securing a loan against a family member's property.

And I would say that 'earning on the side' is rather limited in its prevalence then describing it as 'the vast majority'.

♂

May 31, 11, 13:57 #16

ukpolska:

You are both wrong actually, as if their parents are not rich and unable to provide them with a property, then most young Poles gain financial help from their family in some way in gaining a mortgage through for example by, securing a loan against a family member's property.

The property-dealers are trying that in the UK too - getting first time buyers to basically sell their granny. Or at least secure a loan against her property. That's never been necessary before, for the majority of home-buyers of previous generations. It may well mean that we are in even more dangerous economic territory than was first feared.

♀

Jun 1, 11, 08:08 #17

ukpolska:

And I would say that 'earning on the side' is rather limited in its prevalence then describing it as 'the vast majority'.

OK, OK, maybe I exaggerated :)

BritinPoland:

4 Any other tips or advice perhaps?

He should check whether he would also need to buy and register a cash till. There are subsidies available to cover part of the cost of buying an appropriate till, but the rules on registering them are pretty strict.

Peter KRK

Jun 13, 11, 01:28 #18

Back to "a very small business".
May be a very small help from institutions in Cracow:
krakow.pl/english/5668,artykul,business_environment.html
A very good and comprehensive page, but in Polish:
krakow.pl/biznes/8,glowna.html Click menu in the right corner: "Punkt Obsługi Przedsiębiorcy". Use ling.pl or Google translator. You can find there all forms, law acts and procedures you need and some advices.
Basic steps of small business for Poles and residents in Cracow are:
1. business registration (15 min+queue)
2. statistic registration REGON (15 min in the same place)
3. tax registration NIP (in tax administration client must wait 1-3 days for NIP number)
4. social security registration ZUS (may be not for foreigners??)
But the first of all is a good bookkeeper who can give someone an advice or arrange all.
Your fiend must remember the chliche: foreigner=dough (perhaps no longer in Cracow or Warsaw). In the country not wealthy foreigner from (old) EU or US is like the rhinoceros without horn.

BritinPolandThreads: 8 Posts: 131 Joined: Oct 30, 10 ♂	Jun 13, 11, 15:56 #19
PeterKRK and Inkrakow, thank you

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Polska, Polonia, Poland	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 07:40 / May 26
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com

Opening a very small business in Poland - procedure/fees?