Poland goes bankrupt?

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,649 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Edited by: hague1cmaeron Oct 30, 10, 01:46 #31
Alarmist BS, the figures mentioned are patently ridicules. And what this so called economist neglects to tell, is that Poland's economy is likely to grow beyond all expectations next year. In an on the record interview Rostowski said it could be by as much as 6%. The economist you mention seems to assume that the economy stays still from year to year.

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Oct 30, 10, 01:57 #32

hague1cmaeron:

patently ridicules

how so?

hague1cmaeron:

In an on the record interview Rostowski said it could be by as much as 6%.

Do you really believe that? Lets call it tax revenue, do you think that total tax revenue will grow 6% year on year? That's all that really matters in the end when we're talking about government debt...the ability to repay it.

hague1cmaeron:

The economist you mention seems to assume that the economy stays still from year to year.

And it's an optimistic level of growth for the upcoming future...

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Edited by: Chicago Pollock Oct 30, 10, 03:53 #33

zetigrek:

Crisis comes to Poland with delay but its effects will not be less dramatical than in Hungary or Greece."

Poland had a strong currency. No it shouldn't be like Greece or Hungary as they don't have their own currency anymore. Lesson to Poland, don't give up zloty.

pgtx:

I'm 24 years old and still have no driving license!!!

some people on PF think that young people actually have a good career start in Poland and make lots of dineros... how come you can't afford a DL course, huh?

Pgtx, take her under your wing the girl needs a mentor.

Yes, social security pays out to people with disabilities...like being to stupid/fat/lazy to work

Convex, America has a debt problem due to 2 unfunded wars. And the money didn't go to the men in uniform, it went to defense contractors.

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Edited by: grubas Oct 30, 10, 04:14 #34
Chicago Pollock: Poland had a strong currency. BS.Swiss frank is what you call a strong currency. Chicago Pollock: No it shouldn't be like Greece or Hungary as they don't have their own currency anymore. BS.Hungary still has Forint. Chicago Pollock: don't give up zloty Agree.

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Oct 30, 10, 04:23 #35

grubas:

BS.Swiss frank is what you call a strong currency.

I'm not comparing to Swiss Franc. Comparatively to Eastern Europe and Emerging Markets, it's strong as can be expected.

grubas:

BS.Hungary still has Forint.

Yeah, but didn't it have big problems this summer?

Problems with Greece, Portugal, Ireland is they don't have their own currency. Germany and France control it. Not a good place to be.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Oct 30, 10, 04:24 #36
Chicago Pollock: Convex, America has a debt problem due to 2 unfunded wars. And the money didn't go to the men in uniform, it went to defense contractors. Those two wars are a drop in the bucket. grubas: BS.Swiss frank is what you call a strong currency. Amen to that. Poland will not go belly up......unless it can tackle it's unfunded liabilities.

Chicago PollockThreads: 10 Posts: 638 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Oct 30, 10, 04:27 #37
convex: Those two wars are a drop in the bucket. A trillion $ and still growing. Remember under Clinton, " Balanced Budget" in 2000.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Oct 30, 10, 04:32 #38
Chicago Pollock: A trillion $ and still growing. Remember under Clinton, " Balanced Budget" in 2000. It's not my team vs. yours. You're talking about one offs (the wars, colossal waste of money). I'm talking about trillions in unfunded long term liabilities, the first of which is affecting us this year. Poland has the the latter looming on the horizon.

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Edited by: grubas Oct 30, 10, 04:41 #39

convex:

Those two wars are a drop in the bucket.

True.Americans just live beyond their means and goverment (on all levels)spendings are sky high.Just look how the goverment sector wages compare to those in private sector.But Americans also waste a lot and they could easily cut down on consumption.I still can't understand why would anybody want a 8cyl 4.6l eng in an ordinary sedan?

convex:

Poland will not go belly up......unless it can tackle it's unfunded liabilities.

I am not so sure about it.Poland needs to cut goverment expenses,balance the budget and start PAYING OFF THE DEBT!I don't understand how countries can function just adding the debt?After paying all of the foraign debt Poland should back PLN with silver and live long and happy.

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Oct 30, 10, 04:53 #40

grubas:

I still can't understand why would anybody want a 8cyl 4.6l eng in an ordinary sedan?

4.6 V-8, is not the problem. That's how automobiles developed in US. US traditionally is mainly rural, with harsh weather conditions. Europe is relatively mild, comparatively.

grubas:

Poland should back PLN with silver and live long and happy

Metal backed currency locks value, and you lose your control. Might as well use the Euro.

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Oct 30, 10, 05:25 #41

zetigrek:

Poland goes bancrupt?

I hope sincerely that del stays in poland and holds things together, he is such a
treasure to poland and its economy and does so much for them , he will get the
whole country thru this tough time...... I just know it...

cause he is super duper cool!! yahhhhhh...

convex:

Yes, social security pays out to people with disabilities...like being to stupid/fat/lazy to work.

or people who fought in wars or turned 62 years of age and worked all their f=in lifes
and its also for children who lose their parents, or for people who lose arms, legs
and maybe a large machine fell on top of them while they were at work and they lost
their ablilty to walk, but they are still alive.. yeah, your such a good mod convex
I never thought you would be so caring.. :)

I am sure you feel the same way about all the polish people living in poland collecting
some type of disability..

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Edited by: hague1cmaeron Oct 30, 10, 05:53 #42

convex:

atently ridicules
how so?
hague1cmaeron:
In an on the record interview Rostowski said it could be by as much as 6%.
Do you really believe that? Lets call it tax revenue, do you think that total tax revenue will grow 6% year on year? That's all that really matters in the end when we're talking about government debt...the ability to repay it.
hague1cmaeron:
The economist you mention seems to assume that the economy stays still from year to year.
And it's an optimistic level of growth for the upcoming future...

Well the economist quoted, apparently claims that the government figures are unreliable, following that he comes out with his own figures, which are even more unreliable. Unlike the government, he does not have fixed methodology at his disposal to count the debt. He is effectively asking people to trust his wild assumptions instead of the governments'.

I am not sure if it is going to go up by 6%, however it is fair to say that the current official government forecasts of 3.5% of growth are a real underestimate-which is what they do, because they prefer to underestimate the level of growth than to overestimate it-and that is what their track record of the previous few years indicates.

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Oct 30, 10, 11:11 #43

grubas:

True.Americans just live beyond their means and goverment (on all levels)spendings are sky high.

It's artificially increased purchasing power. $46b/mo trade deficit will do that.

Chicago Pollock:

Metal backed currency locks value, and you lose your control. Might as well use the Euro.

Actually, it provides stability and has been an effective hedge against inflation. Meddling with fiat currencies has terrible unexpected side effects. Pegging one fiat currency against another is just outsourcing monetary policy. Pegging it against a precious metal which has been (and is) used as a means of retaining value makes quite a bit more sense. The Swiss Franc comes to mind... You can still devalue your currency if it's pegged, no loss of control.

Patrycja19:

or people who fought in wars or turned 62 years of age and worked all their f=in lifes
and its also for children who lose their parents, or for people who lose arms, legs
and maybe a large machine fell on top of them while they were at work and they lost
their ablilty to walk, but they are still alive.. yeah, your such a good mod convex
I never thought you would be so caring.. :)

We're talking about social security disability, of which the requirements to get on aren't exactly stringent. If you don't believe that the program is being massively abused, have a visit to you local trailer park and ask around. The soldiers that you're talking about are paid disability from the military. The people who worked all their lives putting money into a Ponzi scheme, well, their fault. It was proven that it's not sustainable at its inception. Now it's hitting the wall. You'd suggest continuing somehow with a failing system? You want the current working generation to bail out the auto industry, banking industry, continue paying for the massive increase in defense spending that the retiring generation oversaw, and ponzi social security and medicare on top of that? No, no thanks.

Poland needs to get out of their entitlement trap. GDP growth is slowing down as wages increase. Hedging on constant 5%+ growth probably isn't too good of an idea...On the other hand, I'd definitely like to see it.

PS, admin doesn't castrate before making people moderators.

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