Poland on its way to Greece?

LwowskaKrakowThreads: 49 Posts: 504 Joined: Mar 9, 07 MEMBER ♀	Aug 10, 11, 11:31 #1
Some articles were published yesterday with alarming news that Poland might be on its way to Greece due to the enormous Public but also private debts ( Morgages and Credit) the Poles have had in recent years. Do you think it an exageration or a plausible scenario?

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,984 Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂	Edited by: Foreigner4 Aug 10, 11, 11:38 #2
I don't know enough about what created the situation in Greece to say. Suppose Poles go on working and reduce their purchasing of electronics and throw away fashion, would that contain the beast?

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Aug 10, 11, 11:43 #3

Poland is poorer than most of EU countries, so, Poland that has already been in crisis won't feel a new crisis. Before Poland, there are other countries such as Ireland, Spain, Italy, UK, Portugal, etc etc whose debts ratio to GDP are big.. But, if Poland falls in crisis, it is not saved like Greece who were given money and Spain and Italy whose government bonds are being bought by Europe Central bank now.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 18:00 #4
One set of stats says this, another says that. The most important thing is that the people keep the faith and also live within their means. Materialism is overrated anyway.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 18:21 #5
No euro in Poland,no immigrants,no overgrown middle class no problem.

peterwegThreads: 35 Posts: 1,989 Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂	Edited by: peterweg Aug 10, 11, 18:58 #6
Poland is poorer than most of EU countries, You an unlimited source of garbage, arn't you? Poland has the 6th biggest GDP in the EU 27. Poland is richer than most EU countries. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GD P_%28PPP%29

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 19:01 #7
No immigrants, southern??

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Aug 10, 11, 19:08 #8

You an unlimited source of garbage, arn't you?

Poland has the 6th biggest GDP in the EU 27. Poland is richer than most EU countries.

What happened to you people? Till a year ago or two, everybody had been giving GDP per capita or income per person to show the wealth of countries:
Looking at here, as of 2010,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
Greece: 28,000 dollars
Poland: 19,000 dollars
(in that list, Poland is poorer than almost all of old EU countries.)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 19:13 #9
Stats, prats and fatcats

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Aug 10, 11, 19:23 #10

GDP per person
Greece: 28,000 dollars
Poland: 19,000 dollars

So, Poland is on its way to Greece?
Maybe, they are changing positions.

Ps: Seanus, I haven't agreed about such things showing real wealth, either. But, in last decade or two, whoever I have talked with on the net or off the net showed me this GDP per person data.. So, people have flowed to those countries following this data GDP per capita.. When I said them Turkmenistan with 5-6000 dollars per capita is actually richer than most of those countries with more than 20,000 dollars per capita and they had laughed..

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 19:26 #11
So, people have flowed to those countries following this data GDP per capita.. When I said them Turkmenistan with 5-6000 dollars per capita is actually richer than most of those countries with more than 20,000 dollars per capita and they had laughed.. Ignoring the fact that GDP calculations are ridiculous, it is meant to capture all goods and services produced. Turkmenistan is still a dump.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 19:30 #12
If Poland can keep the IMF at arms length then it has a prayer. It has done so quite effectively to date but excessive compassion will be Poland's downfall. Look at how Yugoslavia fell into debt and who was principally behind it.

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Aug 10, 11, 19:32 #13

People in Turkmenistan maybe are unable to buy plasma TVs, but, their living conditions are much better than people in countries with 20-40,000 dollars income per person who can buy plasma tv easily.. With an 50 dollars a month, you can live comfortably in Turkmenistan. What will you do with more money if your health care, electricity, gas, housing like basical needs are for free or almost for free.. People in high GDP per person countries are having luxury things, but, they are also paying high costs even to basical needs. What Turkmenistan lack is a little more scientific and technological works.. What high GDP per person countries lack is social life, social economy that already exists in Turkmenistan..

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 19:40 #14
Yes but take away the drugs money from Turkmenistan and how many truly live off of their natural resources, nomad? Be realistic! Is the wealth evenly shared? Poland seems to be moving forward well so why the pessimism?

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Edited by: NomadatNet Aug 10, 11, 19:48 #15

Yes but take away the drugs money from Turkmenistan and how many truly live off of their natural resources, nomad? Be realistic! Is the wealth evenly shared? Poland seems to be moving forward well so why the pessimism?

What drug money? Turkmenistan has no drug business. You are probably confusing it with Afganistan where drug business gone upto 4 billion dollars after its invasion.

Maybe, wealth isn't shared equally in Turkmenistan either, but, what Turkmenistan has done is very importan, they gave basical needs to its all people for free or almost for free and all these are financed by their natural resources, in other words, it can be considered as resource share.. What Turkmenistan done about the resources (sharing with its folks by giving basical needs for free) is ahead of most of countries in the world. Turkmenistan is socially 1st world country. If Poland too does the same, Poland will be much better than Turkmenistan as there is industry also in Poland.

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Aug 10, 11, 19:52 #16

You are kidding me, right? Do you want me to forward you some documentaries of drugs passing from Afghanistan to there?? Do some research, nomad. They are trying to clamp down but it's not easy. Anyway, back on topic.

Poland has chosen to embrace capitalism and it just needs to focus in on job creation. However, much rests with the people to carve out opportunities for themselves. With the help of the EU, Poles have forged meaningful partnerships and will not be filing for bankruptcy for a very long time.

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Aug 10, 11, 20:05 #17

You are kidding me, right? Do you want me to forward you some documentaries of drugs passing from Afghanistan to there?? Do some research, nomad. They are trying to clamp down but it's not easy. Anyway, back on topic.

There may be some few people who are doing some drug works for drug bosses who are mainly in the West. Why do you think drug field in Afganistan have enlarged to huge, 4 billion dollars? Those drug lords probably using Turkmenistan too as one of drug roads. Drug flow on Turkmenistan road is much less than all other roads, yes, including Turkey. But, hey, big drug lords are there in Europe..

Anyway, Turkmenistan is successful, more successful than countries with high GDP per capitas. Unless Poland does such things, if Poland copy asocial economies like UKi Greece, etc, riots in Poland too are unavoidable sooner or later.. People lacking basical needs have always had to riot..

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 20:13 #18
It is enough for many to live more comfortably. Poles have learned to live with less, nomad. They have tricks that no others know ;) ;) Poles now tend to talk more about things which are not right in their country. I really don't foresee rioting here in the near future, far from it.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Edited by: JonnyM Aug 10, 11, 20:15 #19
Ignoring the fact that GDP calculations are ridiculous, it is meant to capture all goods and services produced. Turkmenistan is still a dump. Exactly. A whole lot of factors skew the reults. But Poland is still an upper-middle-income country and is in reasonably good shape economically. It does however have an ezcessively large middle-class.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 20:20 #20
Much depends on terrain too, nomad. Poland has far better transport links and that's key to business too. Please don't tell me the infrastructure in Turkmenistan is half as good as it is here.

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Aug 10, 11, 20:21 #21

Poles have learned to live with less, nomad. They have tricks that no others know ;) ;) Poles now tend to talk more about things which are not right in their country. I really don't foresee rioting here in the near future, far from it.

There is a common confusion.. about learning to live with less.
Learning to live with less is not understood by Western Europeans who think living with less means somethings like living with one mobile phone instead of two mobile phone.. Problem of Western Europe is much bigger, in mentality, that they don't realize the basical needs and they are actually having big troubles about basical needs while they are able to have two mobile phones.. Strange, ironic contradiction in West Europe mentality.. Poland, being more experienced ones, don't need their absurd advices of Western Europeans. Western Europeans need to listen and take advices more from Poland when it comes to social economy.. (however, Turkmenistan is better than Poland too in social economy.)

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Aug 10, 11, 21:11 #22
Poland on its way to Greece? Serbians would help Poland and support Polish economy

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 21:13 #23
Nomad, I am far from being your standard Westerner, very far. There is a lot of poverty in Scotland too, you know? Social economy, LOL. Havering away there, nomad. Crow, if???

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 10, 11, 21:26 #24
There is a lot of poverty in Scotland We Serbs would help to Scots, too. You should separate from that backward Britain Celts and Slavs one fella!

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 21:32 #25
What's on offer, Crow? :) Crow, you are an economist, right? Do you look at the Polish market or only the Serbian? You'd see that the Polish market is strong, I'm sure. As Poles gather more and more know-how, they will waltz past many Westerners, esp in IT.

♂ [Suspended]

Edited by: Crow Aug 10, 11, 21:41 #26

What's on offer, Crow? :)

on the first place, Serbian intelligentsia already suggests that resources of Siberia belong to complete Slavic world not only to Russia. Russians now digest this idea and taking in consideration all positive Serbian reasons for this stance. If Russia comprehend common origin of Slavs, our mutual history that we share and that this or another way all Slavs took part in defense of Siberia as part of Slavic world, if Russia accept that Slavic civilization exist, Russia must admit that Siberia belong to all the Slavs.

Then, we are Serbians. We knows. Scots should trust to Serbs

Do you look at the Polish market or only the Serbian?

i know everything

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 21:45 #27
Crow, I can't believe what you have just said. Russia will give Serbia nothing of their wealth. They just use yourselves and Montenegro for property gains as their mafia profits. Now, Poland is not in a dire predicament at all. Only external factors like the IMF or World Bank can cripple them.

saschaThreads: 13 Posts: 3,850 Joined: Jun 10, 10 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 21:54 #28
Only external factors like the IMF or World Bank can cripple them. and they will probably 'unwilingly' do that... but u forgot the eu ;)

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Aug 10, 11, 21:55 #29
Crow, I can't believe what you have just said. Russia will give Serbia nothing of their wealth. They just use yourselves and Montenegro for property gains as their mafia profits. no. no. Serbia and Russia established partnership. Russia respect its obligations. Russian mafia, too. This is hostile world, you know

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 10, 11, 21:55 #30
The EU will be nice to them for some time longer, until Germany starts struggling ;) Then debts will be reigned in :)

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