Poland's going forward while Britain is still trying to wake up

EnglishpoznanThreads: 14 Posts: 152 Joined: Apr 21, 09 ♂	Jul 10, 10, 21:42 #61
On 4k a month you could live with 2 kids and also rent quite easily. Are you talking about zł or pounds? If you are talking about zł then it would be impossible. Let's say 1000zł per month for food and then rent and bills 2000zł (minimum.) That would leave only 1000zł per month for everything else and if you think that is enough you are living in a fantasy world.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jul 10, 10, 21:44 #62
Some Poles do it. Many in some places.

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Edited by: dtaylor5632 Jul 10, 10, 21:46 #63
Englishpoznan: then rent and bills 2000zł na not min, flats also go for 750pln in huta. Englishpoznan: fantasy world. Hardly, I've done it myself and many Poles have to also. If you think it's impossible then that is living in a fantasy world.

EnglishpoznanThreads: 14 Posts: 152 Joined: Apr 21, 09 ♂	Jul 10, 10, 21:49 #64
Some Poles do it. Many in some places. I think your comment is slightly outdated, this country is getting more and more exspensive all the time. I think to live off this amount of money per month in a major town like Krakow with 2 adults and 2 kids is simply not possible.

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Jul 10, 10, 21:50 #65
Englishpoznan: 2 adults and 2 kids is simply not possible. Ok then, how does a Policeman and a nurse live from 4k a month, with 3 children?

EnglishpoznanThreads: 14 Posts: 152 Joined: Apr 21, 09 ♂	Jul 10, 10, 21:53 #66
I still don't know if you are talking about zł or pounds in either of your comments?

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Edited by: dtaylor5632 Jul 10, 10, 21:55 #67
Pln of course. Edit: After taxes I mean ;)

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Edited by: Englishpoznan Jul 10, 10, 21:58 #68

flats also go for 750pln in huta

Ok so now I understand you are talking about renting a 1 or maximum 2 room flat (probably horrible.) So you would have 4 people sleeping in the living room/bedroom, maybe people like this should think a bit before having kids.

Edit: I don't mean any offence by this and I'm not trying to be narky I just think that these figures you are throwing around are ridiculous. 750pln for a flat anywhere in Krakow is not going to be suitable for a family of 4 :)

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Jul 10, 10, 22:00 #69
Englishpoznan: 1 or maximum 2 room Nope, also 3-4 but a little more expensive, around 1000. Englishpoznan: probably horrible Perfectly normal modern places to be honest. No living and sleeping in the living room ;) Englishpoznan: living room/bedroom, maybe people like this should think a bit before having kids. I said that before.

EnglishpoznanThreads: 14 Posts: 152 Joined: Apr 21, 09 ♂	Jul 10, 10, 22:03 #70
Nope, also 3-4 but a little more expensive, around 1000. Please post some links for flats like this. I bet if they do exist it will be a minimum of 1200zł plus administration fee of about 300zł plus bills which will bring it up to somewhere around 2000zł per month :)

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Jul 10, 10, 22:10 #71

Probably wouldnt find them on internet. Most people who rent them have got them through "contact" Huta is cheap as hell. Rzeszow on another scale is cheaper yet. Don't ask me where they come from, I'm only giving examples of my ex fiancee's parents and families. Plus my own, I lived right next to Planty in Krk in 3 bedroomed place that cost me only 1400pln for about 2 years.

Anyone who thinks you must earn at least 6k to start a family must wonder how the rest of poland does it. For example a teacher at a primary school in Kolbuszowa earns 1000-1200 per month, her husband get 600 a month stacking shelves in local shop. But they somehow have raised 3 kids and own their own house with land.

zetigrekThreads: 59 Posts: 2,709 Joined: May 20, 10 ♂	Edited by: zetigrek Jul 10, 10, 22:10 #72
Englishpoznan: rent and bills 2000zł (minimum.) what about social housing, tbs, ppl who owns flat/house. They dont pay 2000 zł per month! 2000 zł is only possible in Warsaw if someone rent flat near downtown.

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Edited by: Englishpoznan Jul 10, 10, 22:12 #73

what about social housing, tbs, ppl who owns flat/house. They dont pay 2000 zł per month!

We were talking about renting not people who own and how many couples who earn 4000zł per month qualify for social housing?

Probably wouldnt find them on internet

Nowadays probably wouldn't find them full stop :)

Anyone who thinks you must earn at least 6k

Personally if you are talking about a two person income I would even say a bit more, I live in Poznań and I can't imagine it is any cheaper than Krakow.

own their own house with land.

And how long ago did they buy this land and build the house? You can't honestly tell me that now on a combined income of 1800zł per month that they could do this?

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Edited by: milky Jul 11, 10, 00:00 #74

Englishpoznan:

Ok so now I understand you are talking about renting a 1 or maximum 2 room flat (probably horrible.) So you would have 4 people sleeping in the living room/bedroom, maybe people like this should think a bit before having kids.

I think some people especially on this forum think that the Poles are just second class citizen of the EU and those greedy developers could not care less as long as they make profit. Let them buy their clothes in cheap supermarkets etc and go search for cheap food bla bla bla.what a neck.. Life is really hard for average families in Poland full stop.

AmathystThreads: 30 Posts: 3,967 Joined: Nov 10, 06 ♀	Edited by: Amathyst Jul 11, 10, 03:57 #75
enkidu: I think that this is fair to criticise. And its fair to discuss this. As long as we all agree that all Poles are whining kunts who keep on saying Britain sold them down the river? Because their harsh reality of post war is the only war memory and every one else had some big fcuking party with ever lasting over flowing feast of treats!

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jul 11, 10, 17:44 #76
Almost everyone sustained losses but were able to move on. Poland seems to have cemented WWII deeply into its national psyche.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,783 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jul 11, 10, 20:22 #77
Seanus: Almost everyone sustained losses there losses and LOSSES, Sean !

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jul 11, 10, 20:27 #78
No more than the Jews, Ironside, though we don't want to go there.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,783 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jul 11, 10, 20:34 #79
Seanus: No more than the Jews Jews had at last fresh start.......anyway it easy to be wise I wonder how would any-so-proud-and wise- nation-from-the western part- of European peninsula would have looked like after 40 years of soviet reconstruction???/ Its all speculations thought ! I-S ( well)

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Jul 11, 10, 20:42 #80

A fresh start? Many didn't live to see it. Poland has done very well in the last 20 years to rebuild itself. Wałęsa and Balcerowicz were over-ambitious and, in hindsight, unrealistic. However, they can't be blamed for trying. They gave it a good shot! Kwaśniewski took Poland into NATO which was motivated by safety concerns. Sensible at the time! Now? That's a matter of debate but Poles wanted it then so democracy manifested itself. Tusk needs to be careful of leading Poland down wrong paths. No more so than in the banking industry.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Jul 12, 10, 00:04 #81
Balcerowicz did what was best for Poland in the long term. Populists will argue against it, but the man knew what needed doing, and did it. There will never be anyone with enough political will to pull through logical reforms like that again. Too many people are addicted to handouts...

♂ [Suspended]

Jul 12, 10, 00:13 #82

convex:

Balcerowicz did what was best for Poland in the long term.

Can you imagine what would have happened if the worker faction within Solidarity had their way?

I've always maintained that the average moustache-worker within Solidarity didn't particularly want democracy, but only wanted better conditions for themselves and their families. Even nowadays, Solidarity's actions betray them as being very selfish - witness the endless striking and trouble whenever anyone proposes ending their rather cushy conditions. It's not really different to PiS voters as a whole - they talk about democracy and freedom, but on their terms.

convex:

Too many people are addicted to handouts...

And many of those receiving handouts are working on the black market. Does anyone really believe that those people working in guarded parking lots aren't claiming some sort of benefits?

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