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Polish GDP per capita has dropped !

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posts: 32

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,783 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 14:54 #1
Statistics has it that in the years 2000- 2007 GDP in Poland per capita has risen from 10.6 $ to 15.9 $! It mean that purchasing power of average Pole has dropped, about 38%.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: convex Nov 21, 10, 14:56 #2
Your post seems a bit confused :) Ironside: Polish GDP per capita has dropped ! Ironside: in the years 2000- 2007 GDP in Poland per capita has risen

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,783 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 15:01 #3
convex: Your post seems a bit confused :) 2000 - 1US$ - 4.3126zł 2007 -1US$ - 2.4754zł How about now? clearer?

♂

Nov 21, 10, 15:03 #4

I dunno what he is saying or thinking, but I can say that the Polish economy is not as strong as it used to be, and jobs are more scarce. This is all I can add to the cry of Polish economy suffering.

Recently the elder brother of a friend of mine got a job that he didnt study for ... and the pay is not that good. The man has a wife and a son to look after ... it is not that easy for the educated ones even ...

Some of the Poles earn alot higher, which drives all figures upward ... I suggest to interrelate the mean of the GDP/cap along with its mode and median ... in that way you can know more precisely about the current state of the economy.

For the ones seeing green ... do you know that the coming winter will not be sweet to many Poles? ... Its not paradise in here.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,783 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 15:04 #5
So in 2000 GDP per capita - 45.7 zł 2007 -39.4zł down about 14%, plus 24% inflation = 38%! Well?

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,440 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Edited by: PennBoy Nov 21, 10, 15:04 #6
[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8144452/OECD-slashes -UK-growth- World Bank raises Poland's GDP growth forecasts to 3.5% in 2010, 4.1% in 2011 http://www.gowarsaw.eu/en/news/world-bank-raises-polands-gdp-growth-fo recasts-to-3-5-in-2010-4

ShawnHThreads: 9 Posts: 3,056 Joined: Jul 2, 09 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 15:06 #7
So the zloty has sank faster than the GDP could rise. I can see it.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,783 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 15:10 #8
PennBoy: Yeah ! talking about PO being good for economy ! phew!

♂

Edited by: Lodz_The_Boat Nov 21, 10, 15:16 #9

Ironside:

talking about PO being good for economy

They try better than others ...

The economy is a tricky thing ... there are other factors too that the government must look into, such as corruption, society, tolerance and culture.

PO is good ... what do you think about the SLD? =)

I care less for politics ... neither do I follow much ... but I feel that the PSL and SLD should be together and do something interesting ... they can make small changes within themselves and come out as the best choice for Poles. It is possible right?

♂

Nov 21, 10, 15:23 #10

Ironside:

2000 - 1US$ - 4.3126zł
2007 -1US$ - 2.4754zł

That would mean that Polish purchasing power increased on the global market.

Polish GDP in 2000 was 744b zl
...in 2008 1,342b zl

And the zloty is worth nearly twice as much now against the dollar as it was in 2000.

Really not following you.

Ironside:

Yeah ! talking about PO being good for economy ! phew!

I can assure you that both of the leading parties in Poland are equally worthless when it comes to stimulating the economy. Poland has the NBP to thank for good management of the zloty over the years.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,440 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 15:26 #11
Lodz_The_Boat: They try better than others ... Donald Tusk sold the shipyard and he doesn't even know to whom

cheehawThreads: 9 Posts: 831 Joined: Oct 10, 09 ♀	Nov 21, 10, 15:32 #12
yea, but these days, debt and borrowed money is added to GDP, so we're not really talking about 'product' and production here. Poland got a big influx of cash from the EU didn't it? that's mostly what you are seeing in those GDP stats.

♂

Nov 21, 10, 16:00 #13

cheehaw:

yea, but these days, debt and borrowed money is added to GDP, so we're not really talking about 'product' and production here. Poland got a big influx of cash from the EU didn't it? that's mostly what you are seeing in those GDP stats.

That'd be €65b allocated until 2013, but it's not a transfer from one countries balance sheet to another. It is counted as investment only when a particular program is funded, of which Poland has been fairly conservative in getting going. EU funding has had an impact on GDP, but not a substantial one. But your right, GDP is probably the worst economic indicator out there. It doesn't take debt into account..

A JThreads: 19 Posts: 4,639 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 16:26 #14
cheehaw: Poland got a big influx of cash from the EU didn't it? Bingo.

♂

Nov 21, 10, 16:47 #15

THIS is exactly what I cannot stand on this forum....schmucks posting crap like this:

Lodz the boat, you JUST wrote in another thread:

Come back those who are not making it big in USA ... it is still possible to make a living in Poland.
Cool down, think about it ... people from such far off places come to Poland and make it a good living, even make it big for them ... why can you??
Whats the difference? ... In Poland you can have a good life! If your life is nothing more than a machine in USA ... do consider coming back to Poland ... but please with a clean heart and open mind ... give something good to the society and add something nice to the culture.
Culture is an open system where there is a high level of acceptance ... it modifies itself constantly. Although this is not always true for the sub-cultures which exist within it ... culture engulfs the sub-cultures within it. Be a part of the greater culture, and make your sub-culture a support for the culture as a whole to save and create a progressive effect to its major cultural momentum.

and within the SAME hour, you wrote this in this thread:

I dunno what he is saying or thinking, but I can say that the Polish economy is not as strong as it used to be, and jobs are more scarce. This is all I can add to the cry of Polish economy suffering.
Recently the elder brother of a friend of mine got a job that he didnt study for ... and the pay is not that good. The man has a wife and a son to look after ... it is not that easy for the educated ones even ...
Some of the Poles earn alot higher, which drives all figures upward ... I suggest to interrelate the mean of the GDP/cap along with its mode and median ... in that way you can know more precisely about the current state of the economy.
For the ones seeing green ... do you know that the coming winter will not be sweet to many Poles? ... Its not paradise in here.

need I say more?

i simply cannot STAND posters like you.

MAN, am I glad I was not born in this country. I can't imagine having this ridiculous love/hate Polish complex.

♂ [Suspended]

Nov 21, 10, 16:53 #16

Lodz_The_Boat:

I care less for politics ... neither do I follow much ... but I feel that the PSL and SLD should be together and do something interesting ... they can make small changes within themselves and come out as the best choice for Poles. It is possible right?

Last time it happened, they lost badly at the next election.

The best result for Poland would be something around 35% PO, 20% SLD - a solid majority in the Sejm, yet both sides forced to work together to find common ground.

bullfrogThreads: 4 Posts: 390 Joined: Apr 23, 09 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 17:37 #17
convex: EU funding has had an impact on GDP, but not a substantial one. 65 bn€ over 2007-2013 is around 10 bn€ per year, that's 3% of total GDP. Quite substantial by any count!

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 17:45 #18
bullfrog: 65 bn€ over 2007-2013 is around 10 bn€ per year, that's 3% of total GDP. Quite substantial by any count! I need to check the numbers, but from what I remember, about 20% of that has been allocated.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM Nov 21, 10, 20:39 #19
Ironside: Statistics has it that in the years 2000- 2007 GDP in Poland per capita has risen from 10.6 $ to 15.9 $! It mean that purchasing power of average Pole has dropped, about 38%. If they have risen, how have they dropped? Have you a link?

♂

Nov 21, 10, 20:47 #20

FUZZYWICKETS:

ove/hate Polish complex.

Here I posted a personal Polish problem ... on there I posted a welcome sign for a possible human resource addition.

I dont say that we are doing excellent, but we can use good skills from people who moved to more developed countries. They can come back and do some good in our country ... create jobs etc.

But well ... you wont get it... its called being in love with ones country but yet at the same time being worried about it aswell.

♂

Nov 21, 10, 22:22 #21

convex:

That would mean that Polish purchasing power increased on the global market.

Maybe, but it means that purchasing power of an average Pole had been lower in 2007 than in 2000!What good for banks and financial institution, is not often good for an average taxpayer on whose shoulders all system depends.
2000 GDP per capita - 45.7 zł
2007 -39.4zł
Considering that, worth of zloty has not much to do with this!

SeanBM:

If they have risen, how have they dropped?
Have you a link?

Risen in US$ and dropped in złoty !
Nope, although you can find GDP per capita in $, along official statistical information.

♂

Edited by: convex Nov 21, 10, 22:27 #22

Ironside:

Those are very strange numbers. I'd be curious to see where you go them from. The numbers from GUS are:
Polish GDP in 2000 was 744b zl
...in 2008 1,342b zl

The population has remained pretty much stagnant at 38,5m. It looks like a 100% increase in GDP and a nearly 200% per capita increase in purchasing power for dollar denominated commodities (like oil).

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Nov 21, 10, 22:28 #23
Ironside: Risen in US$ and dropped in złoty ! Erm...do you really not understand that although the amount of zloty might have dropped, what you can buy for that zloty has increased dramatically?

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,783 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 22:41 #24
convex: Those are very strange numbers. GDP per capita? delphiandomine: Erm...do you really not understand that although the amount of zloty might have dropped, what you can buy for that zloty has increased dramatically? Don't you understand that at the same time prices have risen dramatically as well, and o not forget about inflation !

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 22:44 #25
Polish GDP per capita $18,072 (2009 est.) (Wiki)

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 22:45 #26
Ironside: GDP per capita? The population has remained the same, and GDP has doubled, ergo, GDP per capita has doubled.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Nov 21, 10, 22:49 #27
Ironside: Don't you understand that at the same time prices have risen dramatically as well, and o not forget about inflation ! Yes, prices are rising. As are wages. It's called 'convergence'.

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,997 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 22:51 #28
Lodz the boat wrote: But well ... you wont get it... its called being in love with ones country but yet at the same time being worried about it as well. it's called blow it out your a$$. I mean honestly. sorry for the vulgarity Mods, but Lodz the boat....get a grip. i will never take a single comment you make about poland seriously. ever.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Nov 21, 10, 22:54 #29
FUZZYWICKETS: i will never take a single comment you make about poland seriously. ever. Don't be a drama queen.

♂

Edited by: jwojcie Nov 22, 10, 02:16 #30

Ironside:

Statistics has it that in the years 2000- 2007 GDP in Poland per capita has risen from 10.6 $ to 15.9 $! It mean that purchasing power of average Pole has dropped, about 38%.

I think you've made and error in your calculations. I'm not sure I will be able to explain clearly what I mean but let give it a shoot:
1. If we compare your calculations:
GDP $ USD/PLN GDP PLN
2000: 10,6 4,3126 45,7 zł
2007: 15,9 2,4754 39,4 zł

with official data:
2000: 19,4 zł
2007: 30,9 zł

then we can clearly see that those two don't match

2. Why?
I believe the reason is that you've used GDP PPP numbers not nominal GDP with real exchange rates. Because of that when you multiplied GDP PPP by those exchange rates you've did something similar to multipling apples with oranges. This PPP statistics is based on something called "theory of one price" and among other things values are not converted with current exchange rate but with some artificial exchange rate wich would best describe purchasing power of given currency.

I think the way you should do it would be to use nominal values, for example (nominal data from IMF):
2000: 4,45 $ and 19,36 zł
2007: 11,16 $ and 30,87 zł

If you apply your exchange rates to those nominal values of $ above then you will get more or less above values of zlotys.

Ok, mistery solved, what did I win ? ;)

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