Starting a private kindergarten in Poland

dangelo	Jan 6, 11, 16:01 #1
Hello, I am considering helping my Polish girlfriend to open a Kindergarten in Poland. Could anyone advise me or point me in the right direction to get the following information. 1.Regulations regarding kindergartens 2.General levels of demand for private kindergartens 3.Possibilities of funding 4.curriculum guidelines. Thanks in advance for your help.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Jan 6, 11, 16:13 #2
1. see here (in Polish) 2. yes 3. no idea 4. check with pedagogy departments in any Polish university

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Jan 7, 11, 10:24 #3

Funding depends on a few things, such as the status of the facility. If you meet all the requirements and acquire the non-public status, you can then get 80 % of monthly cost of maintaining a child in a public kindergarten. That cost of one child in a public one is calculated in each gmina and is usually around 500-650 zł. So you could get 80% of similar amount per one child per month from the local gov't.

dangelo	Jan 7, 11, 20:33 #4
Thanks very much for the document link, we will use this as the starting point. Regards Dangelo

dangelo	Jan 7, 11, 20:36 #5
Olaf, Thank you for the information. Would you be able to tell me where I can get official documents about this possible funding/subsidy.For instance we may start in Wroclaw or Lodz. Kind Regards.

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Jan 7, 11, 20:49 #6

Olaf:

Funding depends on a few things, such as the status of the facility. If you meet all the requirements and acquire the non-public status, you can then get 80 % of monthly cost of maintaining a child in a public kindergarten. That cost of one child in a public one is calculated in each gmina and is usually around 500-650 zł. So you could get 80% of similar amount per one child per month from the local gov't.

Wouldn't this mean meeting all the requirements, such as disabled access, etc?

The examples I know where the local authority has funded nurseries have all been spare classrooms in schools - there's quite a few examples in Poznan of these.

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Jan 7, 11, 22:24 #7

delphiandomine:

Wouldn't this mean meeting all the requirements, such as disabled access, etc?

- of course, once you meet all the requirements - only then it is accepted and you can register, I took it fofr granted it was obvious, otherwise if you don't meke it for the non-public status you can have a different form of chldcare for different (lower) funding - 45% for a kindergarten group for example.
I know what you mean with those existing kindergartens/nurseries in spare classrooms, but here it's the details that matter and if you open new ones, it may depend greatly on the SanEpid people, they are the biggest "threat" to opening this business - them and the fire dept.

Dangelo, I'll look for some more information just give me a couple of days maybe and I'll dig it out. It's been some time since I delved these issues.

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Jan 7, 11, 22:35 #8

dangelo:

2.General levels of demand for private kindergartens

Something I know about this (in addition to what Olaf says) -

Parents expect ridiculously high standards from truly private nurseries. If there's public funding involved, not so much so - but those that are 100% private and unfunded have to be a truly high standard for Polish mothers. They're actually even worse than British mothers when it comes to being overprotective and paranoid - you can fully expect that unless the place is at least private British standard, you'll struggle with clients.

Incidentally, is your girlfriend a graduate of the specific kindergarten teaching programme?

Olaf:

and if you open new ones, it may depend greatly on the SanEpid people, they are the biggest "threat" to opening this business - them and the fire dept.

It would seem to me that the beset bet would be to start small - when you see what some of the private kindergartens have (and the costs...) - it's really suicidal to try and compete with them. But there is a very real lack of capacity in the quasi-public sector - wasn't there some news story recently about people queuing up in Wroclaw to get their kids into nursery for next year?

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Jan 8, 11, 12:10 #9

Hey,
I just started a kindergarden in Poznan,
i got a very good deal from EU funds. 90 % of investment is sponsored by EU.
The process is difficult and complicated , however now
the effect is outstanding i never expected to get such a great business.
The only problem is the legal staff - loads od requirements and legal work.
Here you will need a good lawyer. I tried four of them and they just didnt manage.
I can suggest you a very good law firm dudkowiak kopec. there is a young lawyer michael dudkowiak. He leaded me throw that process.
Believe me kindergarden for poeople that love kids it the best business ever.
feel free to ask.
gan

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 8, 11, 12:42 #10
ghanem: i got a very good deal from EU funds. 90 % of investment is sponsored by EU. Who was the organisation that administered the grant?

ghanemThreads: - Posts: 3 Joined: Jan 8, 11 ♂	Jan 8, 11, 12:48 #11
EU funds governed by the city council.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 8, 11, 13:26 #12
ghanem: EU funds governed by the city council. Which department of the city council? I'd like to have a chat with them. Usual amount is 2/3rds EU, 1/3rd private, so I'm wondering why they were funding 90%.

OlafThreads: 8 Posts: 1,369 Joined: Oct 29, 09 ♂	Jan 9, 11, 02:11 #13
Me too, I havent heard of such a programme from POKL, and as far as I remember POKL is the only source of money from the EU that can be used for this purpose? Then you have to choose the right programme and detailed point under which you would try to get the money for the business. Only three of them were close to things such as childcare...

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Edited by: delphiandomine Jan 9, 11, 02:22 #14

Olaf:

Me too, I havent heard of such a programme from POKL, and as far as I remember POKL is the only source of money from the EU that can be used for this purpose? Then you have to choose the right programme and detailed point under which you would try to get the money for the business. Only three of them were close to things such as childcare...

You know better than me, but the fact that no specific department of the council has been mentioned, along with a rather strange claim to 90% funding - couldn't possibly be commercial spam, could it? ;)

I'd certainly love to know if there's 90% funding being handed out here - quite a few people will be beating the doors down for funding if it's the case!

OlafThreads: 8 Posts: 1,369 Joined: Oct 29, 09 ♂	Jan 9, 11, 02:52 #15
Indeed:). Apart from spending loads of time on the official internet websites on funding childcare facilities, I have a thick book about this POKL [EU fund] and I roughly know how it goes - but never I have seen 90% funding. I know for example that the project can be within the rang of 200.000 - 2.000.000 PLN but it's never returned that major part as 90%...

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 9, 11, 12:23 #16
Olaf: but never I have seen 90% funding. No, me neither. If there was 90% funding available, almost everyone would be at it - which makes me wonder what fund he got this 90% from. I'm tempted to call this Michał guy directly and ask him about it.

ghanemThreads: - Posts: 3 Joined: Jan 8, 11 ♂	Jan 9, 11, 12:57 #17
Guys, maybe i wasnt precise enough, I got exactly 85 % of funds. Of course it is possible to get those funds on the field of education. Check carefuly, it is possible , i assure you. gan

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: delphiandomine Jan 9, 11, 13:02 #18
ghanem: Of course it is possible to get those funds on the field of education. Check carefuly, it is possible , i assure you. Well, which fund did you use and who administered it within Poznan City Council? That's not such a difficult question, surely? I'm going to check with them on Monday about this - 85% is still rather unheard of.

dangelo

Jan 9, 11, 23:44 #19

Hello Guys/Girls

This is really interesting information, ( I was not expecting such a good response), especially if it is possible to get EU/City funding from 65% and/or above.

We are hoping to start with a small kindergarten to care for up to 25 children.
Kasia ( my girlfriend) passed her exams in Poland about 5 years ago.

Ghanem, if you have more information that you are willing to share, it would be very useful, especially if you have gone through the process. We will also try to contact your recommended person Michal, for a discussion on the matter.

Olaf & Delphiadomine- It sounds like I have to get hold of this POKL book ( is it generally available?) and find the relevant City department to get an understanding of the exact requirements to start the kindergarten.

Any information is gratefully received, you guys are helping to lift the fog! :)

Regards
Dangelo

dangelo	Jan 9, 11, 23:50 #20
Olaf: Dangelo, I'll look for some more information just give me a couple of days maybe and I'll dig it out. It's been some time since I delved these issues. Thank you Olaf.

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Jan 10, 11, 01:45 #21

dangelo:

This is really interesting information, ( I was not expecting such a good response), especially if it is possible to get EU/City funding from 65% and/or above.

Realistically, with this sort of project, you want to approach it from the point of view of not getting any funding (except the specific kindergarten funding that's available to all - as Olaf outlined) at all. EU funds are in very short supply in any sort of prosperous Polish area (especially cities, with the possible exception of Rzeszow, Lublin(?) and Bialystok) - and Poland isn't too good at administering the EU funds either.

City/Provincial/National funds are a possibility, but again - there's intense competition for this kind of thing in cities, especially given the vast amounts of unemployed graduates being churned out. However, if you can bring something "new" to an area that doesn't have it, there's a chance - think (for example) Montessori in a small rural city.

dangelo:

We are hoping to start with a small kindergarten to care for up to 25 children.

Yes, sensible idea. I'd investigate renting rooms from already existing educational establishments - it would be the easiest "path".

dangelo:

We will also try to contact your recommended person Michal, for a discussion on the matter.

Before you pay anything to him, give me a shout as to what he's charging. Lawyers in Poland have a nasty habit of charging a small fortune for foreign clients ;)

dangelo:

and find the relevant City department to get an understanding of the exact requirements to start the kindergarten.

Any idea where you plan to move to?

If you have the funds to do so, then a private nursery run according to UK standards rather than Polish standards could do very very well - people here very much perceive "foreign is best".

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Edited by: Olaf Jan 10, 11, 10:10 #22

dangelo:

POKL book

I got it from one of the local advice centres on EU funds. But most of the details are on their website too: http://www.efs.gov.pl/english/Strony/default.aspx
It took me really long to get deep enough into selecting any of those programmes and actually get to know anything, butonce you do - it'll be much easier and also there is free consultancy service at regional info offices (on appointment) and I'd advise you to get an appointment there but be prepared for the meeting or it'll be a waste of time. They can help a lot but you must know what in details you want to do, so do your homework before, make a business plan and this will be the best start for you getting those funds.

About what I dug out: let me know what you need exactly, I may have information on requirements, different childcare facilities statuses and funding. I guess it's too much to post everything here at random.

dangelo:

3.Possibilities of funding

- to add to what I wrote there are 3 formal statuses of a childcare facility that can be sponsored. Fourth kind is something like a private "children club" - not much requirements, no restrictions and no subsidy either. It would just be a company providing service of childcare. The methods of external financing of the three I mentioned are below. Note that the numbers in PLN apply to Krakow and they are different in each gmina.

Here's someething from my old files.

dangelo

Jan 10, 11, 17:44 #23

delphiandomine:

Any idea where you plan to move to?

We are planning to move to either Wroclaw or Lodz. However, I understand that the two cities are very different from a socio economic standpoint, so this will have a bearing on whether we can most probably establish a totally private kindergarten ( which I understand may be more suitable for Wroclaw) or Quasi- public ( which may be more suitable for Lodz).

Before deciding, I am going to try and get information on the number of pre school children in each city and the current numbers of places currently covered by each city, to try and get a handle on whether there would be any demand in each City.

Would you be able to point me in the right direction? I want to make sure I do as much research as possible before moving and making such an investment.

Thanks again.
Dangelo.

dangelo

Jan 10, 11, 17:56 #24

Olaf:

to add to what I wrote there are 3 formal statuses of a childcare facility that can be sponsored

Thank you Olaf for the link.
We will either go for the Private or Quasi -public Kindergarten.

It is possible that we would consider an after school club, where school children could stay if they have parents working late( upto 6pm). This is very popular in the UK. I am not quite sure about the demand for this in Poland, but it would only be supplemantary to the Kindergarten.

Kind regards
Dangelo.

OlafThreads: 8 Posts: 1,369 Joined: Oct 29, 09 ♂	Jan 11, 11, 09:05 #25
The after school clubs could be a good option, but location is the key here: you have to have this club close to some business centre where they have shift work. Find the centres located in the cities you are interested in. By the way, where do you plan to do it, which city?

VarsovianThreads: 91 Posts: 568 Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂	Jan 11, 11, 13:07 #26
Very interesting thread. The private kindergarten in my Warsaw commuter belt village is massively overpriced, has poor facilities, is understaffed but the govt is pushing it ... because the alternative is good quality state kindergarten for a fraction of the price. Brainless beyond belief. The govt has the ambitious idea that all kids aged 5 must go to zerówka - causing the debacle.

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,141 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	Jan 11, 11, 16:45 #27
Zielona ciuchcia in Warsaw is I believe and very expensive and good. Though I have no kids in that age-range I cannot check it :))

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Edited by: warszawski Jan 11, 11, 16:57 #28

sobieski:

Zielona ciuchcia in Warsaw is I believe and very expensive and good. Though I have no kids in that age-range I cannot check it :))

Two kindergartens with a good reputation in Warsaw, that have been on the market for a long time.

http://www.preschool.pl/
http://www.warsawmontessori.edu.pl/

Varsovian:

because the alternative is good quality state kindergarten for a fraction of the price. Brainless beyond belief.

If it is a state kindergarten, it is free so there is no price.

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,141 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	Jan 11, 11, 17:20 #29
warszawski: Two kindergartens with a good reputation in Warsaw, that have been on the market for a long time. I have a friend here in Warsaw, whose son is going to Montessori - be it the primary school. She is very satisfied of it.

VarsovianThreads: 91 Posts: 568 Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂	Jan 11, 11, 17:33 #30
Warszawski - state kindergartens are not free!!

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