The Changing Face of Scotland - we need more immigrants!

I have found that what attracts the people you have described is in fact 'no labour at all' - the countless thousands of benefits dependant Scots who have forgotten how to survive and depend on the nanny state. Foreigners coming here to work is a good thing and they should be welcomed with open arms. As a tax payer, I would rather pay for 10 Polish immigrants tax rebates than 1 lazy unemployed Scot who threw away every opportunity given to them by the state funded education system they disrupted for 11 years of their life. Manual labour may not require intellect in general, but it does require a strong work ethic - something most Scots no longer have.

All but this part of your post I agree with. Unless of course you have met 'most' Scots...?

The reason why there are so many manual, menial low paid jobs vacant is because a Scot with no qualifications is in many cases better off on Benefits. It requires a strong work ethic to work a tough job when you'd be better off unemployed; whether it's out of pride, self respect or the fact that being jobless would bore you to tears. Therefore it would appear that most Scots in this situation are shying away from the low paid manual jobs and letting immigrants who are prepared to graft take the jobs.

Did you ever consider it was just the group of people you met that were 'dickheads' and not an entire nation? Haven't you come across a fellow group of Scots you could say that about - I know I have. Plenty of times. I didn't say 'oh the rest of Scotland are cun*s' because of it. I know a good few Polish people now through work. I'd also met a few before it. I have never came across any so 'rude' as you make them out. Maybe I'm lucky - but maybe you should consider that fact that you might have been unlucky in who you have met. Honestly, tell me you are so backward to attribute the personalities of the people you have met to an entire nation?


Polish people come here. Some just for work, some to live. Mostly, probably just to make a better life for themselves. Can you wish differently for somebody - deny them that because they were born on a different tract of land? Can't you imagine yourself in their shoes? If you have read that article, you will know we need immigrants...so if you still hold your views it must simply be for personal reasons...why?


If it comes down to work ethic, the first two reasons you give (pride, self-respect) for being unemployed rather than being in a manual labour job do not coincide with what you say of scots having a low work ethic - it implies they are jobless for reasons which have nothing to do with low work ethic at all.


People I work with say it all the time unfortunately. Representationally, this forum would make it seem so.

Good point Sofi. I was once told to "go back to munching on haggis and shagging ginger skirt-wearers" by some "very nice" folk in Coventry. Hmm, but I don't believe all in Coventry think that ought to be the case.



Then you need to figure out why they are saying it, as they seem to be employed at the same time...

I think they just like to complain and anything/anyone different to them becomes their best source. Maybe a bit of fear of the unknown too. Inexcusable all the same!

Hehehe skirt-wearers :) I have to say I'm baffled by the kilt myself.

Some people just like to moan...



I'm not. There are guys that suit it and guys who don't and when you see a guy that does...it'll baffle you no more... ;)

:) True
Lol! I suppose I used to think Mel Gibson looked pretty good in one :) People my own age, I always thought looked a little off. Takes a man of a certain look to pull it off - but I'd still rather see him in jeans!

If you claim that immigrants are stealing jobs then how come people claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance benefits in Scotland are at record low levels than ever before as well as the level and rate of economic activity also equal the record high. URL

Here's how it works. There are NOT a fixed number of jobs in the UK, or in any other country. An immigrant worker doesn't "take" a job that someone else has been doing; they take a job that is vacant. And by spending their money in the UK, even on overpriced housing, they create new jobs.

Don't believe me? Look at the figures. In October 2005 (i.e. just after Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, etc) joined the EU, there were 351,000 job vacancies posted in Job Centres in the UK. In October 2006, the comparable figure was 361,000, after a year in which several hundred thousands of immigrants came to the UK to work.

So my question for the economically illiterate among you is this - exactly which jobs did they take?[UK official statistics for the job market available at nomisweb.co.uk ]

And as for the idea that immigrants are here to grow lazy on UK benefits - there are 510,000 Central & Eastern Europeans who have (to date) registered on the Home Office's worker registration scheme. Approximately 55,000 - i.e. 11%- claim tax credits or child benefit. Only 350 are claiming income support, and 859 job seeker's allowance. These figures courtesy of the Daily Mail (22 November), which estimates an annual cost of "up to GBP 60 million."

This may well be right. But hang on a moment - these 510,000 registered immigrants are all legal, and captured in the tax system. Let's assume they all earn the minimum wage only, work for 40 hours a week, and earn GBP 214. Working 45 weeks per year, total income is GBP 9630, and total income tax and national insurance payable GBP 1257. This means the UK govt. gets some GBP 641 million in tax receipts from immigrants - 10 times the amount paid out - and guess what - the balance is spent on services for the rest of us.(OK - the govt. may waste it on silly foreign adventures, but that's another problem).

So my second question for the statistically challenged among you is this - who benefits financially from immigration?

My two points are these. One - immigrants create jobs, and contribute more to the UK than they take out. And two - try and debate on the basis of facts, not ignorance and prejudice.

I wrote this last year, but the points are still relevant to today's racists!!!!

no they keep wages down and opportunity away from the indigneous population, poles coming to the uk helps no one we need poles here like a hole in the head , the government manipulate employment figures ie by new deal putting brits on pointless 2 or 3 day schemes with no proper job opportunities to fix the figures as they are taken off the unemployment register ,i'm a field data analyst and work for unilever and we have a problem with the suppliers who feel that they havn't had a yearly wage rise on the plastics plant since 2005 and they blame large amounts of poles for this as they are cheap and just want that quick buck to send home which is all fair and well but when that starts coming at the expense of our own people then this is surely insane , there are numerous stories all over the country about cheap poles replacing british labour often union jobs , this comes after strong arguments over the last few months in parliament that EU labour is fastly forcing the british wages for millions at the lower end of the scale down to the poverty line the most vulnerable in our society , the brits can't live 8 in a house and send money back to poland to buy goods at a fraction of the price ,wages are being kept lower here in the uk yet they are rising in poland this is complete insanity that our government would sell their own people who elected them in out to eastern europe , do you think they would ever have won if they announced this opening borders up to a possible 500 million people as immigration is a main concern for most british now asked , to say these people do the jobs that we don't want to do is complete nonsense i think brits just want a fairer pay scale and better rights which are now at an all time risk .

Well that's proof then, thanks for explaining this so-called fact :O)
You said it...stories!!

You know I am not going to do any more on this because you are just quoting stereotypical racist arguments with no proof of facts.

"Jesus, why do I bother? I should no better then to post in these threads with these racist blinkered views" :O)

Great points ukpolska :D I may be using them in the near future.

blame your government for its actions and manipulating figures, and blame them for letting immigrants take benefits and jobs too. blame british employers for hiring Poles instead of English. you put a big piece of cake on a plate for everyone to have and you expect them not to take it? dont be stupid and stop posting the same crap all the time cos youre just boring.

I think it is upto poles themselves to build their own country instead of fleeing for it. I have heard lots of bullsh*t about how poles are so nationalistic and proud of their country, but they dont want to live anywhere near it.

Some live in Germany which is near Poland... ;)



That's what Poles do, rebuilding their country. Few of them "flee" their country. Many are offered a job abroad. Most of Poles still live in Poland and don't plan to "flee" or anything else.

Again, noimmigration has a point. Many Poles are proud, often overly so, but don't want to make a difference in their own back yard. Having lived here for over 3 years, we can point the finger at the govt to a large extent as they pay peanuts for skilled occupations. I know of a dentist who studied for 6 years and then worked for 1,900zl a month. Take 19% tax off of that, 1,500zl about and 200zl for ZUS, 1,300zl and maybe 700zl for rent and utilities/media per month, that leaves 600zl for a month. Doesn't leave much room for having kids really. It can be done of course but is that all these hard-working people have to look forward to? A life of drudgery and non-stop thriftiness!! We all have purple patches or money for a rainy day (the black hour Poles say) where money is tight but not constantly

Noimmigration has no point, he even doesn't know what he's talking about.



I know some kind English people living here, they're proud to be English, but they don't live there. They've been here for something like 20 years now, their son is a friend of mine. Many English people left the UK to live in the US, as there were Irish, Scots (and Poles too), they all are proud of their origins, but they wouldn't go back to Europe.

This is a thread about Scotland, do you mean the Scottish Government ?

BS. A good dentist can easily make that in one day.

Good point. Another interesting thread ruined with Pole-bashing. Fact is Scotland needs more immigrants (not necessarily Poles by the way).

600zl a day, so 3000zl a week, 12,000zl a month, yeah right? Pull the other one. Maybe for special one-off operations. It's possible that a select few earn that, specialists maybe

Sorry but I have to agree with Grzegorz_ on this one as I know maybe a dozen dentists that make way over 10,000zl a month.

Do the sums yourself:
Each visit min 50zl x 10 hrs (some work more) = 500 x 6 days a week = 3,000zl x 4 = 12,000zl.
And this is the minimum they would charge.

They are not many, who make below 10000 a month. A dentist working for 1900 brutto is either a fool or a real beginer, who before opening own business must practice on some poor busturds in prison, army or somewhere else.

I like your maths...I should think about moving to Poland and become a dentist...once i have finished my 8-year-long studies... ;)

I don't profess to be well up on the dental industry, I was just basing it on what I heard. If u r right, then u r right. What I do know is that Polish dentists are welcome in Scotland. We offered them golden handshakes as I researched the issue on behalf of sb. Sweden is also but that's beside the point. We need more working immigrants. Many of the jobs I saw going in Job Centres back home paid peanuts and had less than favourable conditions. Such places attracted alkies who felt that they should have a look at what was on offer but not commit. Immigrants want to set themselves up more than some of the characters I saw in Scottish Job Centres

I agree with seanus, it is highly qualified poles like dentists, doctors and nurses that are welcome to scotland.

we dont want or need hundreds of thousands of polish cleaners, waiters, shop assistants, administrators etc.

Once again you prove that you are a low class creature. You are affraid of competition to crap jobs.

I am a univeristy student moron, I am not worried about competition from jobs. How many polish have studied scots law.

who never left home to live in university accommodation, so has no experience of the big bad world away from Mummy and Daddy


Totally naive...is in for a big bad shock
The world is full of educated fools

We all see very well what you are.