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Ciebie <-> tobie


posts: 22
tomekcatkins
  Nov 26, 07, 15:44  #1

What is the difference between "ciebie" and "tobie"?

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dmshep99
  Nov 26, 07, 16:40  #2

Hmmm...This is not easy to explain because eng. grammar lacks the constructs that exist in pol. language.
In Polish we declinate nouns...

----
Below is an explanation from a "staypoland" site (section polish-grammar):
DECLINATION
There are 7 cases and each of them can have a different ending. If we take into consideration the fact that there is a plural and singular number, there can theoretically be up to 14 grammatical endings in case of one single word. In fact, this never happens as some endings are the same and the job becomes easier by placing a given word in several noun categories that are characterized by the same endings.
AN EXAMPLE:

KOBIETA (feminine) - a woman
1. nominative KOBIETA (subject)
2. genitive KOBIETY (e.g. of woman)
3. dative KOBIECIE (e.g. to/for woman)
4. accusative KOBIETĘ (object)
5. instrumental KOBIETˇ (e.g. with woman)
6. locative KOBIECIE (e.g. about woman)
7. vocative KOBIETO!

and plural
1. KOBIETY
2. KOBIET
3. KOBIETOM
4. KOBIETY
5. KOBIETAMI
6. KOBIETACH
7. KOBIETY!

As you can see in singular dative or locative, there are irregularities like a change of the stem consonants. Some cases are used with prepositions.
----

Both "ciebie" and "tobie" are 'personal pronouns'...the tough thing about them is that they have many forms based on gender, grammatical number, etc...
"Ciebie" would be in this case: accusative, and "Tobie" - dative...(if that helps at all :( )

Sorry I am not very clear...It's been many years since I took pol. grammar...

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Krzysztof
  Nov 26, 07, 17:45  #3

cię/ciebie = Accusative case (Biernik)
ci/tobie = Dative case (Celownik)

You simply have to know in which situations Dative/Accusative are required. The noun/pronoun/adjective case depends basically on the verb and/or preposition used before it.

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tomekcatkins
  Nov 26, 07, 17:50  #4

Ok. got it! Thank you both!

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Michal
  Nov 27, 07, 08:14  #5

Quoting: tomekcatkins
"tobie"?

Tobie follows to the dative case after pronouns such as 'ku, wbrew and (na) przeciwko and dzięki.

Ja dostalem co¶ od ciebie i dzięki ci.

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Davey
  Nov 27, 07, 09:02  #6

Cię, Ciebie, Ty, Tobie, Ci, Tob±

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Michal
Edited by: Michal  Nov 27, 07, 10:14  #7

Quoting: Davey
Cię, Ciebie, Ty, Tobie, Ci, Tob±

Ja idę z tob±, Ty kochasz mnię, ja kocham cię, ja dam ci prezent, ja dostalem co¶ od ciebie, ja idę ku tobie.

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falkin
  Nov 27, 07, 10:33  #8

Quoting: Michal
Ty kochasz mnię


Ty kochasz mnie is correct

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Michal
Edited by: Michal  Nov 27, 07, 12:55  #9

Quoting: falkin
Ty kochasz mnie is correct

Sorry, yes, ty kochasz mnie or ty kochasz mię (I believe that there is another formal alternative style here).

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JustysiaS
  Nov 27, 07, 13:22  #10

Quoting: Michal
ty kochasz mię


mię? what? that is not correct, its mnie, no ę or skipping the n.

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Michal
Edited by: Michal  Nov 27, 07, 14:59  #11

There is also a style using ę too as well as mnie.

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JustysiaS
  Nov 27, 07, 15:03  #12

"Nieakcentowana i niepoprzyimkowa forma "mię" jest przestarzała, spotykamy j± głównie w starszych tekstach:
Zdziwił mię tylko jeden szczegół. (M. Choromański, Zazdro¶ć i medycyna)
Ciarki przeszły mię po grzbiecie. (W. Gombrowicz, Ferdydurke)
Dzbanek z półki - hyc na ziemię: "Ja nie gorszy! Popro¶że mię!" (Julian Tuwim, Taniec)
W staropolszczyĽnie "mię" mogło być używane po przyimku, dzi¶ w takiej pozycji nie występuje."
Mirosław Bańko, "Wykłady z polskiej fleksji", Warszawa 2005, str. 79

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Michal
  Nov 28, 07, 08:29  #13

Ty-ciebie-cię

Ja-mnie-mię

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z_darius
  Nov 28, 07, 10:50  #14

Quoting: Michal
mię

archaism

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JustysiaS
  Nov 28, 07, 11:55  #15

Quoting: z_darius
archaism


exactly, and that means you dont use it anymore and its not correct. you can find it in poetry and literature, but it is not used in everyday language and the teacher at school will tell you it's wrong. you are so stubborn. are you 150 years old michal?

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Michal
  Nov 28, 07, 13:04  #16

Yes, I will be in June. Anyway, I must go now, I see on the news that the French Revolution is about to start.

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Seanus GOLD MEMBER
  Dec 26, 07, 19:00  #17

I understand Polish grammar reasonably well but this has been a tough nut to crack

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z_darius
  Dec 26, 07, 23:52  #18

Th epost by dmshep99 is all correct and informative.
For those who find it difficult to understand the difference between "ciebie" and "tobie" here's a simplified way take on those :

tobie - indicates direction as in for you, to you
ciebie - indicates the object of action as in I like you, I saw you.

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Seanus GOLD MEMBER
  Dec 27, 07, 06:26  #19

In a nutshell, that's a cracking explanation

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Marek
  Dec 27, 07, 13:54  #20

Zapraszamy CIEBIE do kawy u nas.

Myslę o TOBIE!

Widzę CIEBIE od mojego okna.

'Ciebie' is accusative/genitiv, 'tobie' locative or dative.

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RJ_cdn
  Dec 27, 07, 15:39  #21

Marek wrote:
Zapraszamy CIEBIE do kawy u nas.

Widzę CIEBIE od mojego okna.

Zapraszamy CIEBIE na kawę u nas. or Zapraszamy CIEBIE do nas na kawę.
Widzę CIEBIE z mojego okna.

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Marek
Edited by: Marek  Dec 27, 07, 16:31  #22

Dziękuję za twoje szybkie poprawienia!

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