Dwa vs. dwie

Is it really worth a massive debate after such a little point of grammar? Ja jestem w Albionie i jutro ja pojade ku Polsce or ja jestem w Anglii i jutro pojade pociagiem do Polski. W koncu, wszysko jedno!

yes, although I'm not sure how correct the form "dwóch studentów" is, it's been a while since I left school :)
you can use it alternatively only in the function of a sentence subject (even the Dative case, though normally the subject appears in Nominative case, with some exceptions, for example when the predicate is the verb "brakować")
if you want to use it as other part of the sentence normal rules apply
and remember that the Genitive case (used as sentence subject), requires a verb in SINGULAR form.

Yes, indeed.

The only thing is you must take care when using verbs with the combinations. Dwoch, trzech studentow, that is, plus gen. pl. but dwaj, trzej, czterej plus nom plural, dwaj studenci, trzej panowie

Nie, nie wszystko jedno! ;-)

"Ja jestem w Albionie i jutro ja jadę ku Polsce" is simply not Polish. It's something someone trying to learn Polish might say, but it's definitely not correct, standard Polish.

Your "Polish" sentence has the following errors:
1) personal pronoun 'ja' appears twice even though it's redundant (the form of the verbs carries enough info)
2) Albion - poetic and archaic version, just about as popular in Polish as in English, e.g. in old-time poetry
3) "ku Polsce" has already been discussed. If you go "ku Polsce" this merely means you are moving in its general direction, towards Poland.

If you think such issues are not worth discussing on a forum devoted to Polish grammar and usage, well... what can I say?

There is nothing wrong with the pronoun 'ja' and there is certainly nothing wrong with the dative case either. No, it is not worth disusing further. I am going ku gorze i ide ku lazience!! There are still many people who address their envelopes to Poland at Christmas time, the only time people write and still use the form ku Polsce.

Say nothing, it is really a waste of time and is not getting us anywhere at all. At the end of the day it is all a personal choice what people say and do. Live and let live.

Michal, for a non-native speaker your polish is really pretty good, but I do think it's high time you stopped pretending to be an expert in polish grammar.

In all my life I haven't heard people using the word "ku" in the way you try to convince us it is being used. Sorry mate.

Next time I see it, if I do, I will try and copy it, i.e. photocopy it and put it on the forum, if I would have the technical knowledge to do so, that is! It is rather a shame that I started this discussion in the first place, maybe it is simply boredom, as there are few interesting debates on this forum these days so we are limited to 'ku Warszawie!' No, I would not say that I am an expert at Polish grammar and would have to look up a lot these days as it is not a language I use any more, except ocassionally when I help people out in Tescos! I speak the language every day of my life but the written form is beyond me these days since my state examinations so many years ago. Rather a shame but as we say in Russian takawa zhyzn! Sorry to you mate.

lol.. 1850s..

Yes, indeed, you should have seen my with my horse, sword and helmet riding in against the cannon balls.

An interseting topic so I decided to bump it.



Yet another home grown lingustic comedy authored by one Englishman, nickenamed Michal.

Neither is a derivative or simplification of the other. The two languages have the same origin, ie. PIE and Old Slavonic. Both contain complexities not found in the other, but just to show how stupid your statement is, let's look at some basic fatcs:

Russian has 6 noun cases, Polish has 7 of them. I find it hard to see how adding more linguistic elements makes things simplified.

Now let's look at some conjugation. I will use the "~" symbol to denote elements which are NOT found in one language, while they are present in the other. If they are found in one of the languages, but not in the other, then I will use bold font to indicate this:

(to be, present tense)
Polish | Russian

byłem | был~~
byłeś | был~~
byvaś | была~
był | был
była | была
było | было

byliśmy | были~~~
byłyśmy | были~~~
byliście | были~~~~
byłyście | были~~~~
byli | были
były | были

Of course it is apparent that the Russian conjugation of the word in plural shows exactly the same word form for all persons, unlike in Polish where each person is conjugated differently, and further, it differs among genders.

So, for singular, there are 6 dsitinct forms of the verb "to be" in Polish, while in Russian there are only 4. For plural, in Polish we have 6 distinct forms of the same verb "to be", in Russian there is only one for for all persons and genders.

To sum up, in Polish there are 12 distinct forms of the verb, while in Russian there are only 5.

The conjugation of the same verb in the present tense in the Russian language is even more interesting. While there is exactly the same number of forms in both languages (есмь, еси, есть, есмы, есте, суть), in Russian (unlike in Polish) they are not always used. For instance:

Polish - On jest Rosjaninem - He is Russian
Russian - Oн ~ русский - He Russian ("is" not used).

Does that really look like Polish is a simplified form of Russian? Or is it that you recieved a simplified degree from Moscow University?


There must have been some new developments in the Russian language I probably missed. The last time I checked (about last week) it was "takaya zhyzn" (такая жизнь).


As for ku, it is an archaism and russicism, sometimes used in poetry, but general use is rare, although not completely absent. The expression 'ku Warszawie!' indicates someone who decided to learn Polish from some pre-WW I manuals.


I agree. There are no problems with any Polish words. The problem is when and how you sometimes use them.

darius, Michal speaks old country, "village" language. Perhaps, the same as his wife, hence the "ku". I believe he has no clue about russian language as such, besides learning some at school...There was a perfect "name" for him in the past in regards to the type of polish language that he uses... :)
Based on some "russian" phrases he utters sometimes here, he would is not able to put a correct russian sentence or two even if he'd know how to get the Cyrillic letters from Word...

You're the only one.

So you are a Ruski.

I would not have a clue how to get the Cyrillic letters from Word. Why should I? Do you know Russian?

he also uses sealing wax and a pigeon to send it ku polsce.

Is a knowledge of Russian a compulsory qualification for entry to the Forum?

As you write prubować its rich of you to talk about 'village language'.

It's not at all. But since you continue to describe Polish as some simplified/bastardized form of the Russian language then the assumption is that you have some knowledge of Russian, and that might further lead some to thinking that in fact you are capable of writing in Cyryllic on your PC.

How do you write in Russian on a PC?

Many ways.
One of the most convenient for those using US or UK keyboard is this: URL

This is great stuff guys i just love this. But i dont come here often and i must praise michal on his last augusts fresh carrot. i have never heard it before. LOL LOL brilliant.

....because it is one of your pretend nationalities? lol

(don't care to comment on anything also)

I have no need to write in Russian and why should I? Does your friend 'The Lady In Red' write in Russian on a day to day basis? Why must I?

well...