Apple v IBM computers in Poland

bolekThreads: 10 Posts: 369 Joined: Sep 13, 08 ♂	May 23, 10, 23:37 #1
Interested to know how popular Apple computers are in Poland, and what advantages Apple have on IBM, many say that you don't need virus protection using a apple? or do you.

♂

Edited by: MareGaea May 23, 10, 23:40 #2

Do you mean IBM-compatible machines, PC's or MS machines in comparison to Apple machines?

About the viruses: there are viruses for Apple machines, if you want to be completely sure you have nearly zero chance on a virus, get a Linux machine, a OS/2 machine from SUN, if they still make them, with a BE2 OS.

Edit: that has to be a BEOS, not BE2 OS, mea culpa.

But the advantage of Apple towards other machines is mainly the OS. Apple just has to write an OS for one particular config, while MS has to make it compatible with 1000's of configs. There are more ppl who use MS machines, therefore it's more "lucrative" for virus makers to create viruses for MS machines. Also, Apple is better when you do graphic things. Apple machines look better, if that is what you're looking for, although that is a matter of taste and due to the fact that the Apple OS used to be somewhat of a bald chicken, there is nothing to gain for malafide virus programmers. MS has more feathers, not all of them you need, which tends to make it more cumbersome, however Win7 is a great improvement compared with Vista.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM May 23, 10, 23:53 #3
I know what apples taste like, what do IBM computers taste like?

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	May 23, 10, 23:54 #4
Like cream soda. >^..^< M-G (there you have it)

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09 ♂	May 24, 10, 00:05 #5
SeanBM: IBM computers IBM computer is any desktop pc out there beside Apple, IBM released the architecture prints for free for everyone hence making IT powerful as it is now. Lucky us ; )

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 24, 10, 00:09 #6

MareGaea:

Also, Apple is better when you do graphic things.

Nope!

I'm working intensive in the graphic departement....and here Apple/Mac is no advantage at all.
There is nothing a Mac does better than a PC, and you have always to wait for the Mac version of the new programs/gadgets (if they come out at all) whereas the Win/PC version is immediately on the markets.

Apple is for snobs...no practical advantage at all! Just a matter of fashion taste...

MareGaea:

Apple machines look better,

That may be...

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09 ♂	May 24, 10, 00:11 #7
The truth is Mac users are using Windows emulator on Mac for certain applications.. that clrearly says something about Mac platform..

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May 24, 10, 00:14 #8

frd:

IBM computer is any desktop pc out there beside Apple,

Ah I understand now, so if it's an IBM when it's beside an apple, what is it when it's beside a banana?

frd:

IBM released the architecture prints for free for everyone hence making IT powerful as it is now. Lucky us ; )

I have not received any architectural prints from any fruits or fruit related products.

Bratwurst Boy:

Apple is for snobs...no practical need at all! Just a matter of fashion taste...

I don't think granny smiths are just for snobs, well not when they are in season.

♂

Edited by: zuczek May 24, 10, 00:14 #9

Bratwurst Boy:

I'm working intensive in the graphic departement....and here Apple/Mac is no advantage at all.
There is nothing a Mac does better than a PC, and you have always to wait for the new programs and new gadgets till the Mac version comes out.

Apple is for snobs...no practical need at all! Just a matter of fashion taste...

Wow you sound like the snob. I prefer Mac because I like the OS and how it works. Yeah they cost too much but it's not just "fashion".

Anyway the main reason they aren't more popular in Poland is cost. The greedy resellers have taken an already expensive product and marked it up to a ridiculous level that most people cannot afford.

People who "bash" a brand of computer are usually people with no experience with that brand. The solution is simple if you despise Apple stuff so much...don't buy it. But we all know you weren't going to anyway. You just want to justify YOUR choice.

♂

May 24, 10, 00:16 #10

frd:

IBM released the architecture prints for free for everyone

Well, it's not that IBM was so enthousiastic to hand them out to everyone :) But anyway, Bratwurst has a valid point there: you always have to wait for ages until the Mac version comes out for a certain program and other programs don't have Apple versions at all... In my personal case, I would not use Apple's Garageband for any price in the world. Even though I'm a hobbyist, I surely consider myself more serious than to work with virtual puppets acting as musicians on a stage to represent my music! Besides, there is no Apple equivalent for the progs that I use to make music anyway.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 24, 10, 00:18 #11
zuczek: Wow you sound like the snob. I prefer Mac because I like the OS and how it works. I never could stand the "look I have a Mac - I'm soooo cooool" attitude and had to chime in for the one real, reliable, practical, true workhorse, the desktop PC! PS: You can emulate the Mac OS on the Windows system too...:) (If looks are that important to you)

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Edited by: zuczek May 24, 10, 00:22 #12

Bratwurst Boy:

I never could stand the "look I have a Mac - I'm soooo cooool" attitude and had to chime in for the one real, reliable, practical, true workhorse, the desktop PC!

PS: You can emulate the Mac OS on your Windows system too...:)

This "attitude" you see is mostly in the minds of people like yourself. I find the people shrieking the loudest against Macs have never owned one. Kind of like the guy with no car saying how he would never "waste" his money on a BMW. He was never going to anyway. If I could afford a BMW I would buy one...they are great cars...but I can't. And I don't feel the need to bash people who can.

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May 24, 10, 00:24 #13

To be honest, I don't like Apple users that much either. Always bragging how great it is, what they forget is that Apple refuses to hand out their OS to any other machines than their own. They only have to write an OS for just one config, so naturally they can come out with more OS'es than MS, who has to write it for thousands of configs.

@Bratwurst:

I don't agree with you fully on the emulator part for Macs on PC's. Not all Virtual MC's can run the Mac OS. Only a handful of VM's can run it and they're usually 3rd party and cost money. And I never buy software anyway ;)

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 24, 10, 00:24 #14

zuczek:

I find the people shrieking the loudest against Macs have never owned one.

zuczek:

People who "bash" a brand of computer are usually people with no experience with that brand.

I'm speaking from experience...frustrated experience at that, believe me!

I have always to be uptodate with my programs, plugins whatnot...always waiting and hoping
till my version comes out (if at all) whereas all others around you are already drooling and working happily is making you not a fan of any Mac!
And in the end it's your system which is important, not the OS and here there are no advantages of a Mac to a PC at all.

You are barking up the wrong tree here...

MareGaea:

And I never buy software anyway ;)

>^..^<

*grin*

♂

May 24, 10, 00:29 #15

Bratwurst Boy

That is your opinion then. I am quite happy with OSX and never feel I am waiting on anything or behind. Sounds like you are better suited for a PC if your environment needs certain PC based software more often.

But your petty sniping at Macs and Mac users is lame. The fact is many people are very happy with them and they are not all snobs who are only interested in "fashion". You are perpetuating that nonsense yourself not us.

You started the barking with your insults not me.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 24, 10, 00:31 #16
zuczek: But your petty sniping at Macs and Mac users is lame. Well, I apologize...but that is the kind of stuff which get's meted out more often than not to us "poor PC'ers" too... And yes, most of them have no idea that in alot of working environments a Mac is nothing of an advantage, more the contrary...so showing they have no knowledge either. Nothing for ungood..

Pinching PeteThreads: 1 Posts: 1,111 Joined: Feb 23, 08 ♂	May 24, 10, 00:33 #17
Macs are overrated.. overpriced, money pit. I always laugh when I see somebody using one. (typically with a $8.00 coffee next to him) Get the hell out of here.. who are you fooling?

zuczekThreads: 4 Posts: 165 Joined: May 10, 10 ♂	May 24, 10, 00:34 #18
Pinching Pete: Macs are overrated.. overpriced, money pit. I always laugh when I see somebody using one. (typically with a $8.00 coffee next to him) Get the hell out of here.. who are you fooling? See all the posts like this? Who is the snob eh?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	May 24, 10, 00:47 #19
Yes, we PC'ers are a mean bunch...

♂

May 24, 10, 00:55 #20

MareGaea:

Well, it's not that IBM was so enthousiastic to hand them out to everyone :)

Yeah I know, from what I remember IBM people then said they released those prints and plans because they though it's not gonna bring them a lot of money, that computers are just gonna be just very expensive machines used in universities.

It turned out differently and we should be happy about it, I bet they were crying later ;)

SeanBM:

Ah I understand now, so if it's an IBM when it's beside an apple, what is it when it's beside a banana?

Sean what are you on about...? I don't get it ; o

IBM is now one of many companies that put computers together. Some people call all desktop PCs IBMs by mistake, because IBM was the first company to create the computer architecture which is still used in PCs. What happened I mentioned above, now there are many companies putting all the parts together, creating motherboards and releasing PCs under their names...

bolekThreads: 10 Posts: 369 Joined: Sep 13, 08 ♂	May 24, 10, 02:35 #21
zuczek: Anyway the main reason they aren't more popular in Poland is cost. You probally hit the nail on the head, you can't make a comment if you haven't used one. A lot of computers in Poland are put together by backyarders using cheap/stolen parts not to mention copied programmes. I suspect the apple/mac compute is still for the fussy rich in Poland, IBM etc reserved for the battler.

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May 24, 10, 03:58 #22

bolek:

Apple v IBM computers in Poland

The title is pretty unfortunate for a copule reasons.

1. Apple used an IBM processor for about 10 years (roughly between 1995 and 2005). It was PowerPC based on RISC architecture which is superior to CISC. Processors which Apple then used were manufactured for them by IBM.
2. In 2005 Apple switched to Intel platform, inherited from IBM's x86.

It is clear that there is no difference between Apple and Windows based machines. Both use Intel, which windows having the benefit of being more flexible since it can run also on AMD processors. MAc machines use the same sub-components as the Windows based machines, although those components have been modified (mostly via firmware) to suit Mac OS and to minimize the competition.

I worked on Apple machines a few years ago and I have to say I did not like them at all. I was happy to switch to Windows and Linux. More flexibility and freedom, if you will.

Apple's big problem is shortage of enterprise level applications. If I can get a software category I can run on a Mac then I can find dozens, sometimes hundreds competing titles for a Windows based machine. It's been also a long standing myth that Apple's graphics capabilities are superior to those of Windows or Linux. That used to be true too far back in time to count now. At this time I really can't see a reason to buy a Mac to run Adobe apps, if Windows versions are available and do exactly the same thing.

Price IS a factor. It always is for most individuals and for every business. Especially when you deal with hundreds or thousands of users, and when you know that the hardware replacement cycle is 3 to 5 years. If I were to buy Macs then suddenly my IT budget needs to go up by 30 to 100% and it needs to be kept at this level. That's not gonna happen in any reasonably well run organization.

Apple seems more of a cultural thing too. This permeates also through devices such as iPod (cool but the competition is more than capable too) or iPhone. While nothing in technology stands still and iPhone may catch up, as of today BlackBerry still rules the enterprise and it is ahead of iPhone for business users.

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May 24, 10, 04:16 #23

z_darius:

It is clear that there is no difference between Apple and Windows based machines.

..except the crazy Apple price.

z_darius:

While nothing in technology stands still and iPhone may catch up, as of today BlackBerry still rules the enterprise and it is ahead of iPhone for business users.

BBerrt For business users.. all the entertainment things, music etc? ... iPhone is winning that race.. even in Japan apparently.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	May 24, 10, 04:29 #24
Pinching Pete: BBerrt For business users.. all the entertainment things, music etc? the entertainment things are certainly available on BlackBerry.

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May 24, 10, 04:38 #25

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy a Mac if you don't want one...but the constant attempts to cut them down is pathetic. You make yourselves feel better about your purchases by trying to rip on people who have made other choices and belittling theirs.

Not everyone who buys a Mac is a fashion snob anymore than everyone buying a PC is a cheap loser who can't afford any better. It's ridiculous the lengths some of you are going through to try and "justify".

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May 24, 10, 04:50 #26

zuczek:

Not everyone who buys a Mac is a fashion snob anymore than everyone buying a PC is a cheap loser who can't afford any better.

There is more to the decisions to buy Windows vs mac than snobbery. If one needs to be a snob and show off (or has the need for speed) then I wouldn't call an owner of $9000 Dell Precision M6500 a "cheap looser". I know a few "snobs" who use exactly that, but Mac is not an option for them for practical reasons.

My point is that for business users a Windows based PC is a winner. For an average Internet clicker any computer purchased within the last 2 or 3 years will do, and with speed to spare.

zuczekThreads: 4 Posts: 165 Joined: May 10, 10 ♂	May 24, 10, 05:21 #27
That is purely your opinion and nothing more. I know plenty of businesses that use Macs. Your analysis of cost etc is very simplistic and leaves out a lot of factors. I say people should buy what they wish but I get really tired of people trying to justify their opinion on products as fact.

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Edited by: z_darius May 24, 10, 05:39 #28

zuczek:

That is purely your opinion and nothing more.

Yes, it is my opinion and it is based on years of work for various businesses and for the government. At just over 7% market share there must surely be some businesses, other than print shops, that use Macs. Not enough to create a significant mass of competition as it is in n the case of Windoze.

zuczek:

Your analysis of cost etc is very simplistic and leaves out a lot of factors.

It's not even an analysis. These are pure facts and my cost analysis sure beats yours.
So which factors would have I left out in my take on the cost analysis?

zuczek:

I say people should buy what they wish but I get really tired of people trying to justify their opinion on products as fact.

I'm all for people getting what they wish. But guess what! With every decision comes some form of justification. For some it may be the color of the keyboard, for others it may be the feel of the interface. Yet others will go for cost analysis, even if it may be considered simplistic.

Windows is not without its faults. Neither is Mac.

Chicago PollockThreads: 10 Posts: 638 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	May 24, 10, 07:16 #29
Whats the skinny on Linux? I'm on Slackware's mailing list but I haven't had time lately to fool around and load it up. Is Linux virus proof? I use lots of engineering apps, where is Linux on Cad programs? What about Windows Emulators?

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May 24, 10, 14:20 #30

Chicago Pollock:

Is Linux virus proof?

No, it's not but it's much harder to write a virus for Linux than it is for Windows or Mac. I caught a virus on Windows machines about halfa dozen times in the last 15 years, not once on Linux.

Chicago Pollock:

I use lots of engineering apps, where is Linux on Cad programs?

There are a few:

http://linuxgazette.net/issue54/frost.html

Chicago Pollock:

What about Windows Emulators?

Check VMware and Citrix.
Citrix has a few virtual server, but a workstation requires a paid license I think.

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