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Automobiles vs. Pedestrians in Poland

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posts: 77

♂

Dec 5, 11, 11:17 #1

Late yesterday afternoon, I was walking back to my flat when a car turned into a driveway immediately in front of me, forcing me to stop. Amazingly, the driver stopped on the sidewalk to wait for the automatic gate to open, so I had to walk around the car. I shouted a sarcastic "dziękuję" and slapped the trunk of the car, which resulted in a passenger exiting the car and saying something to me in Polish which I didn't understand. I ignored him and kept walking, so he returned to his car - however, if I had known the language better, I might have engaged him. So it's probably best that I didn't...

Admittedly, it's not the end of the world, but I find myself becoming more and more frustrated with the lack of consideration that some Polish drivers demonstrate towards those of us on foot. Does anyone know Polish driving laws regarding pedestrians? If we indeed have the right of way in such a situation as I suspect, I'd like to print a copy of the law and slap it on the windshield of the car that impeded me yesterday. Thanks to anyone with constructive thoughts and contributions!

♂

Dec 5, 11, 11:51 #2

Unfortunately such situations happen often, and also many similar (like driving through pedestrian crossing when people are walking on it). Drivers often have little imagination and even less manners. You were right in the situation you described. I found this, in Polish, but Art 26, point 4 is about your situation I think:
http://kodeks-drogowy.org/ruch-drogowy/ruch-pojazdow/przecinanie-sie-k ierunkow-ruchu

peterwegThreads: 35 Posts: 1,989 Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂	Dec 5, 11, 11:51 #3
I believe the attitude is that car is bigger and moves faster so its up to you to avoid it.

OlafThreads: 8 Posts: 1,369 Joined: Oct 29, 09 ♂	Dec 5, 11, 12:05 #4
Well, sometimes yes - common sense is also advised for pedestrians. I myself, being on both sides (a pedestrian and a driver) see many times a person walking straight on the road without even turning their head to see if there is a car or not.

♂

Dec 5, 11, 14:53 #5

It's shocking here isn't it!

Drivers in Poland both love the rules but at the same time don't obey the rules. They will happily knock you over if they have the right of the road and love I mean LOVE letting other drivers know when they're breaking the rules but have no problem breaking the rules themselves.

I could give endless examples and if asked I will.

I'd love to hear anyone defend the drivers in this country. I've heard there are worse countries for driving in Europe but Poland has to be in the top 5.

teflcatThreads: 6 Posts: 1,071 Joined: May 29, 11 ♂	Dec 5, 11, 14:58 #6
croggers: Poland has to be in the top 5. I'd rather drive here than in most other European countries. Perhaps it's different where you live but round here drivers are pretty good. I particularly like the highly developed custom of flashing warnings that traffic cops are near. As for boy racers, the Polish guys are nowhere near as bad as their British counterparts.

croggersThreads: 8 Posts: 91 Joined: Nov 24, 11 ♂	Dec 5, 11, 15:11 #7
teflcat: I particularly like the highly developed custom of flashing warnings that traffic cops are near. Yeah I love that too :) A bit of solidarity to other rule breakers

BLSThreads: 79 Posts: 171 Joined: Feb 14, 08 ♂	Dec 5, 11, 15:12 #8
Surprisingly, Polish drivers seem quite courteous when people are in the zebra crossing. Much more considerate than drivers in America. However, they seem to lose this patience when they are driving on side streets and in living zones such as apartment buildings or blocks of flats. This is where I notice the least civility amongst Polish drivers.

peterwegThreads: 35 Posts: 1,989 Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂	Dec 5, 11, 17:46 #9
croggers: I've heard there are worse countries for driving in Europe but Poland has to be in the top 5. Poland is the number 1 most dangerous.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,440 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Dec 5, 11, 17:50 #10
peterweg: I believe the attitude is that car is bigger and moves faster so its up to you to avoid it. Even if both people are in a car the one who has the better car thinks he has the right of passage.

blackadderThreads: 4 Posts: 403 Joined: Jun 28, 07 ♂	Dec 5, 11, 17:57 #11
Interesting thread name...

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Dec 27, 11, 15:01 #12

This is a new low - today, a driver was trying to park his car on the sidewalk where I was walking and actually honked his horn to urge me to move faster. I stopped, turned around, and stared at him for about 10 seconds before continuing on my way. I felt like ripping the freakin' license plate off of the front of his car!

The stupidity of some automobile drivers astounds me. These are the very same idiots who are driving in traffic and potentially endangering the rest of society with their lack of patience.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 27, 11, 15:30 #13
I'm almost always nice enough to pull right up close to the wall and away from the kerb/curb when they are approaching to park. The one time I didn't, the driver got narky but I just laughed it off.

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,141 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	Dec 27, 11, 16:27 #14
BLS: with the lack of consideration that some Polish driver Polish drivers are predators.

GabiHun

Jan 5, 12, 19:37 #15

Apparently you can't cross the road here as a pedestrian if there is a red man or you get a fine.

This really seems ridiculous to me, when if you are crossing on a green man, cars are coming at you and driving up your engines for you to hurry up!

It should be on the onus of the driver to be aware of the danger he poses to pedestrians. Pedestrians should never be fined for crossing the road. It's lunacy.

peterwegThreads: 35 Posts: 1,989 Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂	Jan 5, 12, 20:00 #16
GabiHun: Apparently you can't cross the road here as a pedestrian if there is a red man or you get a fine. This is quite normal in many countries.

GabiHun	Jan 5, 12, 20:27 #17
What about when there is no marked crossing? What exactly is the law for pedestrians regarding crossings? Where can you do it? Where can you not do it? It's a minefield.

♂ [Suspended]

Jan 6, 12, 11:12 #18

GabiHun:

Pedestrians should never be fined for crossing the road. It's lunacy.

It's quite normal in many countries. You have a red light, universally understood as "don't go". Cars get fined for going through red lights, why not people?

GabiHun:

What about when there is no marked crossing?

The law is clear - I don't remember the exact number, but there's a certain distance from a marked crossing - after that, you can cross where you want.

GabiHun:

It's a minefield.

Not really, just read the relevant law and you're sorted.

♂

Jan 6, 12, 12:47 #19

PennBoy:

Even if both people are in a car the one who has the better car thinks he has the right of passage.

not entirely true. the best piece of driving advice I ever received regarding driving in Warsaw was to wait until you see a car which is of higher value than your own and pull out in front of it. The other driver would be forced to slam on the breaks enabling you to enter the junction unscathed

note: avoid doing it to expensive Mercedes and BMWs with tinted windows

GabiHun

Jan 6, 12, 13:33 #20

delphiandomine:

It's quite normal in many countries. You have a red light, universally understood as "don't go". Cars get fined for going through red lights, why not people?

It's also (regarding pedestrians) not normal in many countries and is therefore a subject for debate.

Cars get fined, because cars can kill others, pedestrians pose no such threat to others. A person that poses no threat to others should (in my opinion) not be fined. A car that goes through a red light can kill not only himself but another person. A pedestrian poses no such a threat to other peoples lives - only his own.

Secondly, the stopping distance of a car is much greater travelling at 50kph than that of a pedestrian travelling at 6kph. So it's easier for a pedestrian to avert an accident involving himself than it is a driver to.

Thirdly, a rule such as this makes drivers think that they "own the road" so to speak, drivers see anything other than a car a nuisance and behave accordingly. That's why, even when I have a green light as a pedestrian drivers rev the engines, bib horns, become impatient, yet I never see them getting fined for behaving threateningly to people more vulnerable than them. Why is that?

It's part of the reason why Polish drivers are so erratic behind the wheel.

Coincidently, in the Netherlands they changed the law regarding red lights, pedestrians, and fines - and there was no effect on pedestrian fatalities. In fact, pedestrian fatalities are HIGHER in countries where the Jaywalking law exists. This seems to indicate that the jaywalking law does not do what it's supposed to - which is improve road safety. As such, I view it as another money making exercise.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for a driver committing a similar offence the penalty is actually LESS for the driver than the pedestrian. It's lunacy, that the more vulnerable road user, should be subjected to a heavier fine.

delphiandomine:

The law is clear - I don't remember the exact number, but there's a certain distance from a marked crossing - after that, you can cross where you want.

Well if the law is so clear how come you don't know the figure? How come NO Pole I have asked knows the figure. The law is not clear at all.

Not really, just read the relevant law and you're sorted.

It's easy to read the relevant law if you know where to find it. As yet, I have not found any literature to clarify the subject. I would be grateful if anyone here could point me to a relevant website.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Jan 6, 12, 13:56 #21
GabiHun: Cars get fined, because cars can kill others, pedestrians pose no such threat to others. A person that poses no threat to others should (in my opinion) not be fined. Red = stop green = go breaking that rule in any form of transport/travel mode should deserve a fine... I utterly HATE it when pedestrians go on red light...

♂ [Suspended]

Jan 6, 12, 14:04 #22

GabiHun:

A pedestrian poses no such a threat to other peoples lives - only his own.

I actually saw a pedestrian cause a four-car accident yesterday. A hugely drunk (even by Polish standards) guy was staggering around in a six-lane road. He stumbled into the middle lane, a car slammed on the brakes to avoid hitting him, the car behind went into the back of them and the car behind that swerved to avoid those cars and went into the side of the car in the next lane.

♂

Jan 6, 12, 14:27 #23

Olaf:

I myself, being on both sides (a pedestrian and a driver) see many times a person walking straight on the road without even turning their head to see if there is a car or not.

These people either put too much faith in their peripheral vision (which I believe doesn't even exist) or they've always got their mind on a mission. Either way, I know exactly what you mean.

OP, next time don't ***** out, if you become angry enough to hit or kick someone's car then stand your ground, it will at the very least be an interesting story..."and that's how I ended up with this glass eye"
: )

GabiHun

Jan 6, 12, 14:31 #24

Mr Grunwald:

Red = stop
green = go
breaking that rule in any form of transport/travel mode should deserve a fine...
I utterly HATE it when pedestrians go on red light...

It's fine that you hate it but it is not a logical argument. Just because there is a rule it doesn't mean that that rule is justified.

The data suggests that fines for pedestrians in these circumstances do not improve road safety as the affect on road deaths is nil. It also promotes an attitude that the car is king and we end up with situations like the original post, where the driver uses his auto mobile as a threatening weapon.

What I'm saying that it is always the car the poses the greater risk, and always cause more damage, so therefore the responsibility should be on the driver. It should be up to the driver to check that the road is clear, that they are keeping an adequate stopping distance, and that they are behaving in a responsible manner because THEIR CAR CAN KILL.

I'm obviously not saying that people should break the law and walk willy nilly into the road without looking - it's stupid. What I am suggesting is that the law is gumph because it suggests that a car and pedestrian are equal when, in fact they are not. It's like giving a person with a knife, and a person without one equality.

Harry:

Ok, so the pedestrian should have been fined for being drunk, which seems to be the main reason for the accident- the dude gets a fine anyway and learns his lesson. No one in their right mind would try and cross a main road like that. But no one died, and the driver has insurance. The driver by the way should be aware of all developing dangers on the road - including drunken Polish men. The only person that could have died was the drunk man himself. If he wants to kill himself - then let him.

As for the other two cars involved in the accident, why didn't they keep their stopping distance ? It could have been a car having an accident up ahead and the result would have been the same. You cant be blaming the drunk man for the other two drivers negligence. So could they have avoided it. Maybe.

♀

Jan 6, 12, 15:14 #25

Nothing is so frustrating as taking common views from nowhere ( in Polish z "du*y ) like

peterweg:

Poland is the number 1 most dangerous.

But maybe some of you just go first through statistics which say something different .

First note that nb of persons injured in compared countries is as follows :

http://w3.unece.org/pxweb/dialog/Saveshow.asp?lang=1

http://w3.unece.org/pxweb/dialog/Saveshow.asp?lang=1

http://w3.unece.org/pxweb/dialog/Saveshow.asp?lang=1

then you calculate that data per capita where population is as follows : Poland -38 min , Germany 82 mln , UK 60 mln, France 63 )

Then you calculate the ratio per 1000 people and you have a stats :

number of persons injured in road accidents per 1000 people is in compared countries :

Poland - 1.47
France - 1.44
UK -3.82
Germany - 4.84

So , Poland is not as dangerous as Germany or UK , it is as safe as France .

So , don`t make comments like this - " Poland is s**t ,uncivilized, undeveloped , etc. because we know it is or it should be , because we know better ".

GabiHun

Jan 6, 12, 15:23 #26

Those links do not work for me.

You'll also need to know the number of cars on the road to extrapolate the data, and work out the driver:pedestrian ratio to give a truly fair representation of injury caused by drivers and pedestrain saftey of any given country.

Example in a "country" of 60,000

there are 20,000 drivers and only 1000 pedestrians is injured.

or

there are 1000 drivers and 1000 pedestrians are injured.

The per capita result is the same, but clearly one "country" drives more dangerously than the other.

♂ [Suspended]

Edited by: Harry Jan 6, 12, 15:24 #27

polmed:

First note that nb of persons injured in compared countries is as follows :

http://w3.unece.org/pxweb/dialog/Saveshow.asp?lang=1

Interesting. When one clicks those links, one gets the following:

UNECE STATISTICAL DATABASE
Server.MapPath() error 'ASP 0171 : 80004005'

Missing Path

/pxweb/dialog/SaveShow_include.asp, line 371

The Path parameter must be specified for the MapPath method.

polmed:

So , Poland is not as dangerous as Germany or UK

I do not believe that for a single second.

Having just checked the site which Monia links to, I find this:

otal of injured
All ages
Poland
Pedestrians 12023
Drivers and passengers of cycles ..
Drivers and passengers of mopeds ..
Drivers and passengers of motorcycles ..
Drivers and passengers of passengers cars 44022
Drivers and passengers of motor coaches, buses, trolleybuses and tramcars ..
Drivers and passengers of road vehicles ..
Other drivers and passengers ..

Interesting that apparently not a single cyclist or motorbike rider was injured in Poland in 2009!

♀

Jan 6, 12, 15:28 #28

I dont know why those above links don`t work , there are other links from that webpage , you can easily find proper data :

http://w3.unece.org/pxweb/database/STAT/40-TRTRANS/01-TRACCIDENTS/?lis ttype=detail&sortBy=filename&sort_order=asc

http://w3.unece.org/pxweb/dialog/varval.asp?ma=01_TRAccprofile_r&path= ../database/STAT/40-TRTRANS/01-TRACCIDENTS/&lang=1&ti=Number+of+injury +accidents%2C+killed+and+injured

polmedThreads: 2 Posts: 274 Joined: Sep 25, 11 ♀	Jan 6, 12, 15:34 #29
First click the space of -"number of injured in road accidents ", then chose a country and the latest year which is 2009 , it is easy to find out . Harry: I do not believe that for a single second. You don`t have to , I know you are too stupid to comprehend .

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: Harry Jan 6, 12, 15:39 #30
polmed: You don`t have to , I know you are too stupid to comprehend . Thanks for confirming, by posting nothing but insults, that your lie has been exposed, as almost always happens. Please feel free to find something else to moan about now. By the way, enjoy this graph:

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