Bilet, controler and the Police.

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Apr 14, 10, 04:15 #1

Hello everyone,

I ran with my last breath to a last and late night tram heading to my direction, luckily for me, my arrival with the tram was accurate,the thin line that divides me and the tram was just fractions of seconds. But please guess what..? As i was panting in the tram due to the race, i didn't realized where the hell i left my extra tram ticket which was needed to be validated. Unknowing to me that the same guys who came into the tram with me were Bilet controlers, until the tram move few steps away, and the announcement was made. Hm... the guy sitting in front me rush to the electronic validated when he saw that i wanted to place my ticket. However he wanted me to pay the fine which i was obliged to do at the office, once the tickets is given... but for humanity sake i didn't understand why he solely refused to sign the ticket for me to pay at the office, rather he preferred to call the police first, before he did that, honestly it didn't call for such, however i was calm and pleading for him to write the ticket and let me go.. but choose the Police to come since he didn't get the physical cash himself.

Please my question, is there any indicting circumstances if the police listened to your appeal and yet took your passport information and ask you to make sure you pay the fine?

As a foreigner, i don't feel comfortable when my personal informations are been review by the police especially when it relates to matters of this nature.

Please what do you think?? Could this lead my name into any kind of black list or watch list of the territory, and what are the disadvantages of such note takings...??

Your candid opinion would go a long way to clear my worries, thanks!

f stopThreads: 33 Posts: 2,861 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	Apr 14, 10, 04:21 #2
Do I get this right, if you have not been caught, the ride would have been free? It is still essentially an honor system?

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Apr 14, 10, 08:37 #3

Your question was right, but of-course i have the Bilet to validate, but the unfortunate case is that it happened within seconds after the Bilet guys and i got into the tram, while i was searching for the ticket in my jacket after the race, no doubt that they were doing their job, putting up all calculated measures for a culprit. The deed has been done, thats why i need to know about the my questions.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Apr 14, 10, 08:51 #4
It's nothing. Pay the fine.

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Apr 14, 10, 09:01 #5

Did you refused to show your ID or Passport when he asked you to show it, or did you refused to give your personal details. These can be the only reason why he would call the police. There are people who are living illegally and travelling so they just do there duty to inform the police as he was suspecting you to be without documents. Regarding personal details taken by the police it is safe so dont need to worry. It is possible that you ca forget to validate the ticket or you need to reach somewhere which is more important and u couldnt buy a ticket. We are human beings and we do make mistakes but as far as we follow the rules and pay the fine on time it wouldnt harm your image nor will you be in black list, so cheer up :)

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Apr 14, 10, 09:03 #6
He got caught and has to pay the fine. It sounds to me like he freaked out and they called the police another reason could be that they did not want to take cash in case they would be accused of taking bribes.

richasisThreads: 5 Posts: 833 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	Apr 14, 10, 09:19 #7
SeanBM: He got caught and has to pay the fine. Good Call: that about sums it up. :)

Cardno85Threads: 33 Posts: 858 Joined: Jul 11, 08 MEMBER ♂	Apr 14, 10, 10:59 #8
f stop: It is still essentially an honor system? Yes, and it works rather well too. The only time I don't buy a ticket is if I am just jumping one stop to get out of the rain. The rest of the time the stress of watching every person on the tram for tell-tale signs is just too much and it's better just to have your ticket, better still just grab the monthly ticket and there is no stress at all.

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Edited by: SeanBM Apr 14, 10, 11:28 #9

f stop:

Do I get this right, if you have not been caught, the ride would have been free? It is still essentially an honor system?

You are supposed to buy your ticket at a kiosk or if it's available a machine at the tram stop, if you are in a rush and jump on the tram, you can purchase a ticket from the driver when he stops.
Once you have your ticket you have to stick it in a machine on the tram to activate it.
It is the same procedure for the buses.
There are also monthly passes and student passes, they may work differently.

I remember an Irish gangster being caught not paying his ticket in Amsterdam and he was extradited back to Ireland, where he had several warrants for his arrest.

On a side note, the public transport in this country is marvellous, especially when compared to Ireland.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: delphiandomine Apr 14, 10, 12:46 #10
SeanBM: you can purchase a ticket from the driver when he stops. In Krakow, don't they have many machines inside trams too? It's one thing that's sorely lacking from Poznan :( Anyway, to the original poster (which obviously is Mark Biernat, but anyway) - you were caught in a moving tram without a ticket. It's fare evasion, simple as that.

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Edited by: SeanBM Apr 14, 10, 13:42 #11

delphiandomine:

, don't they have many machines inside trams too?

Yes, they do but not on all trams yet, I think they are only on the new ones.

delphiandomine:

It's one thing that's sorely lacking from Poznan :(

Are you from Scotland and based in Poznan? How long have you been here? Are you a love refugee :) ?

I was thinking we should have a PF BBQ/meet up/thing-a-ma-jig, either in Wroclaw or Warsaw this summer, as they are in between Krakow and Poznan and a lot of other places.

I love trams, they're slow roller coaster round the city :)

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Apr 14, 10, 14:44 #12
SeanBM: I was thinking we should have a PF BBQ/meet up/thing-a-ma-jig, either in Wroclaw or Warsaw this summer, as they are in between Krakow and Poznan and a lot of other places. cough vote for Wroclaw...

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Apr 14, 10, 14:51 #13
If you lose your ticket you have to pay the fine. Simple as that. It's only 120 zloty and (or 80 if you pay within a week) anyway, which isn't the end of the world.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM Apr 14, 10, 14:52 #14
convex: cough I am going to Wroclaw anyway, hopefully to meet up with yourself, Wroclaw boy and anyone else that wants to go, just for a small pint or two :) this summer... I have never been to Wrocalw, can you imagine :) On topic I won't be taking the tram.On topic

MEMBER ♂

Apr 14, 10, 15:00 #15

jonni:

It's only 120 zloty and (or 80 if you pay within a week) anyway, which isn't the end of the world.

I thought the sign on the tram said it was 100?

I have also heard from various sources (never been caught ticketless myself) that the inspectors get 35zł for every fine they give out and so you can give them 40zł and do away with the paperwork. This is pure speculation though that I have heard from a couple of people here in Kraków.

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Apr 14, 10, 15:18 #16

Cardno85:

I thought the sign on the tram said it was 100?

Depends which city

Cardno85:

so you can give them 40zł and do away with the paperwork. This is pure speculation though that I have heard from a couple of people here in Kraków.

It used to be like that in Warsaw (except the bribe was 20zl) - often they'd prefer the bribe to the fuss of doing it properly. Now they've cleaned up a bit and don't take bribes.

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Apr 14, 10, 15:40 #17

Honestdude:

the guy sitting in front me rush to the electronic validated when he saw that i wanted to place my ticket.

So you were sitting at some point before they checked your ticket.

That means: Guilty as charged.

There is a validation machine near every door, if an inspector, usually two, is on the tram/bus they normally give passengers time to punch the ticket.

Pay the fine and all will be OK.

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Edited by: aphrodisiac Apr 14, 10, 16:07 #18

ah, the tram fine. I am guilty of that too. Did it at least a couple of times. I am such a horrible law breaker. No excuses to be honest, but it would be better if one can get into the system only with the valid tickets. The problem of fines would be solved.

useful vocabulary especially for SeanB:

kanar- the undercover ticket controller in Polish slang
jechać na gapę- to travel without a valid ticket.

MEMBER ♂

Apr 14, 10, 16:09 #19

Wroclaw:

So you were sitting at some point before they checked your ticket.
That means: Guilty as charged.

Yup, I have to agree. Any time I have seen the inspectors they give you ample time to validate your tickets. The first thing you should do is get to the machine and check your pockets for your ticket, if not then get to the driver. If you took too long doing this then it's really your own fault.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57 Posts: 5,470 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Apr 14, 10, 17:22 #20
Wroclaw: So you were sitting at some point before they checked your ticket. ahh the old two sides to a story. i got busted for speeding the other week, not by a camera an unmarked Police car nabbed me, asked for 300 PLN said i only had 200 he said OK then asked where i was going so i told him the Onchology centre so he said alright 100pln, deal. No problems.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Apr 14, 10, 17:58 #21
Wroclaw Boy: asked for 300 PLN said i only had 200 he said OK then asked where i was going so i told him the Onchology centre so he said alright 100pln, deal That proves Polish cops are compassionate.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Apr 14, 10, 18:16 #22
z_darius: That proves Polish cops are compassionate. Yup, only stuck 100zl in his pocket instead of 200zl.

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Apr 14, 10, 18:20 #23

convex:

Yup, only stuck 100zl in his pocket instead of 200zl.

Not at all, there you go with those sweeping generalisations again, there were two police men and i actually got a ticket this time.

At the end of the day i was expecting a 500 PLN wham on the spot jobby, as far as im concerned 100 PLN was a light let off. He was a nice copper (if there is such a thing) i got the feeling he didnt want to give Poland a bad name, he totally thought i was Polish at first.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Apr 14, 10, 19:03 #24
Wroclaw Boy: i got the feeling he didnt want to give Poland a bad name The image is everything! If you take away the lie of your life from someone you practically kill him/her

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57 Posts: 5,470 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Apr 14, 10, 19:06 #25
Mr Grunwald: If you take away the lie of your life from someone you practically kill him/her Is that a quote? i dont know what that means at all.

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Edited by: Havok Apr 14, 10, 20:06 #26

The billing system of the mass transit in Poland is ill-conceived . You hire bunch of secret tram-cops to chase after people without a valid ticket. The tram-cop is authorized to call real cops on you just in case you look suspicious. Then you "sell" this "service" in a form of a “speeding-ticket” to the individual who got caught.

- install devices on the tram that would check/validate your ticket before you enter onboard.

When I was a kid my mom got couth without a ticket once. I remember I was horrified that “they” were going to take us to jail. 25 years later the system is still at large terrorizing customers of the mass transit system lol… And some people call it marvelous... Geez I’m so glad I don’t have to live there.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Apr 14, 10, 20:11 #27
Havok: Geez I’m so glad I don’t have to live there. You are not the only one.

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Apr 14, 10, 20:37 #28

I can't remember the last time I bought a ticket, I've been asked a few times and just speak to them in English and they go away. Theres no information for non Polish speakers on the trams and buses indicating how the system works and given that Poznan is supposed to be an "international business centre" its laughable that theres nothing in English or German to explain what you are supposed to do unlike pretty much every country i've ever been to.

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Apr 14, 10, 20:43 #29

SeanBM:

You are not the only one.

lol that made my day;)

dnz:

I can't remember the last time I bought a ticket, I've been asked a few times and just speak to them in English and they go away. Theres no information for non Polish speakers on the trams and buses indicating how the system works and given that Poznan is supposed to be an "international business centre" its laughable that theres nothing in English or German to explain what you are supposed to do unlike pretty much every country i've ever been to.

I still have yet to use that excuse in Poland:)

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Edited by: delphiandomine Apr 14, 10, 21:56 #30

Havok:

- install devices on the tram that would check/validate your ticket before you enter onboard.

Not practical. Even in Poznan, it would delay the trams significantly - and given that some sections are overloaded as it is, it's just not feasible in most cases to actually do this. I believe they do this in Moscow buses, but only as a response to overwhelming fare dodging, which isn't really rife in Poland.

As for the system being useless - it works perfectly well in Berlin and many other places :)

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