Church of England - Catholic Marriage in Poland.

samnslonThreads: 10 Posts: 23 Joined: Mar 15, 10 ♀	Edited by: Moderator Apr 25, 10, 12:46 #1
Hello i was wondering if anyone can help me, i am looking to find out if a Church of England person can Marry a Catholic person in Poland?

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Apr 25, 10, 13:28 #2
samnslon: Hello i was wondering if anyone can help me, i am looking to find out if a Church of England person can Marry a Catholic person in Poland? Of course, it's not a problem for a civil marriage. For a church marriage, the CoE person must be baptised, that's all :)

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Apr 25, 10, 16:50 #3

delphiandomine:

For a church marriage, the CoE person must be baptised

The CoE doesnt need to be baptised. It is possible to get married even with atheist, muslism etc (from the catholic church point of view). I think the only one requirement is for the other person to agree to respect the person's religion. Some time ago also the partner had to agree for the children to be raised in the catholic faith but i think it changed some years ago. Well, at the end of the day it depends on the particular priest but the general guidances are as above.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 25, 10, 17:14 #4
Aha, sorry, I misread the thread. I think shush is right on this one. The baptism of a future child is highly encouraged.

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Apr 25, 10, 17:29 #5

Yep no problem and I did it ten years ago, not too sure what things have changed in the mean time but I had to agree to have my children brought up in the Catholic and also I needed permission from the Arch Bishop to get married in my wife's church.

I had to be baptised back then as I needed this to be married in a Catholic church and I had to travel all the way back to the UK to gain this proof, but after that it was plain sailing, apart from the part where I gave my wedding vows in Polish and nearly said, 'I will love you until I stink'...

As 'stink' and 'die' are pronounced very similarly at least I thought so then.

aż do śmierci = until death
aż do śmierdzieć = until stink

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 25, 10, 17:32 #6
LOL, I was almost caught out too as the Registrar detracted from the main speech that I had prepared. No baptisms required of course :)

shushThreads: 5 Posts: 552 Joined: Dec 20, 09 ♀	Apr 25, 10, 18:09 #7
ukpolska: I gave my wedding vows in Polish and nearly said, 'I will love you until I stink'... LMAO! I wonder if it would be still valid if u said stink? lol

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 25, 10, 18:15 #8
There would need to be multiple renewal of vows ;) ;) Oops, you stink again, time to confirm my love after you wash :)

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Edited by: delphiandomine Apr 25, 10, 18:15 #9

shush:

The CoE doesnt need to be baptised. It is possible to get married even with atheist, muslism etc (from the catholic church point of view). I think the only one requirement is for the other person to agree to respect the person's religion. Some time ago also the partner had to agree for the children to be raised in the catholic faith but i think it changed some years ago. Well, at the end of the day it depends on the particular priest but the general guidances are as above.

Of course, it depends on the individual priest, but the general rule is that to avoid any trouble, you should be baptised and should agree for the children to be raised as Catholics. You might find a liberal priest who is willing to ignore this - but it's by no means certain, and it may require special approval - which given the processes of the Catholic Church, it's by no means certain that it will be granted.

I know that many priests simply wouldn't agree to marry an athiest in the church.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 25, 10, 18:22 #10
Well, they are heavy on documentation, delph. It can be costly to get sth analogous to the CNI which I needed for my civil marriage. The CNI was 600PLN or so but I remember a Spanish guy here being asked to go through a Catholic marriage and the costs were decidedly higher.

shushThreads: 5 Posts: 552 Joined: Dec 20, 09 ♀	Edited by: shush Apr 25, 10, 21:44 #11
The canon law doesnt say anything that the other person has to be baptised. http://archidiecezja.lodz.pl/czytelni/prawo/k4t7r6.html (in Polish)

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Apr 25, 10, 22:08 #12
shush: The canon law doesnt say anything that the other person has to be baptised. Even if it's not written in Canon law explicitly, it is widely interpreted in Poland (and indeed, elsewhere) that a non-Christian cannot get married in the Church. Remember, you need the dispensation from the relevant Bishop - and this is by no means a given.

shushThreads: 5 Posts: 552 Joined: Dec 20, 09 ♀	Apr 25, 10, 22:12 #13
delphiandomine: Remember, you need the dispensation from the relevant Bishop Yes, that's true but I think the problem is a priest really and not a bishop. Bishops i guess know the law but priests do as they please most of the time.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 25, 10, 22:15 #14
Tell me delph, what is needed for Christian status? Do they see a Protestant as a Christian as some don't? What about those that put on the Christian label but don't go to church? Why should the church rule on them if they are not church-goers?

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Apr 25, 10, 22:31 #15
Are there any Anglcian clergy in Poland? I don't believe the Church of England (Anglican Church) is registered in Poland, but for the beenfit of the Commonwealth diplomatic corps and expat Brits I would assume there must be a priest or two. Just curious!

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Apr 25, 10, 22:40 #16
Polonius3, 4 u http://www.anglicanchurch.pl/index2.php?l=en

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Apr 25, 10, 23:22 #17

Seanus:

Tell me delph, what is needed for Christian status? Do they see a Protestant as a Christian as some don't? What about those that put on the Christian label but don't go to church? Why should the church rule on them if they are not church-goers?

I think they regard a Christian as someone who has been baptised in a recognised faith - so while Protestants are fine because they're an offshoot of the Catholic Church anyway, they wouldn't be so quick to allow someone from a (stereotypically...) American cult-church.

From what I gather, it's no issue if you don't actually attend church, it's the baptism that matters more.

But I guess -the Catholic Church takes the view that in their house, they make the rules - which is fair enough really. You don't need their involvement to get married, after all.

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Apr 25, 10, 23:33 #18

delphiandomine:

they regard a Christian as someone who has been baptised

This is accurate. If they're not sure if the baptism was a valid one (i.e. with flowing water and in the name of the Trinity) they may do a conditional baptism - just like a normal one but saying "If you are not baptised already, I baptise you in the name of...". A person who is not baptised can not under any circumstances be married in a Christian ceremony.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 25, 10, 23:35 #19
I don't think they can really insist on a baptism if sb opted out of it when they were young, though. We live in a world where people move around so much more and if an English guy comes to Poland as an unbaptised Christian then he should at least be given the option of getting one to consummate a marriage. Did you go to church in Scotland? What school did you go to btw?

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Edited by: jonni Apr 25, 10, 23:41 #20

Seanus:

I don't think they can really insist on a baptism

They can if the person wants a marriage or any other sacrament in a church.

Seanus:

an unbaptised Christian

There is no such thing - baptism is the 'entry ticket' to Christianity and the first step on the Christian journey of faith.

Seanus:

to consummate a marriage

I think you mean 'to solemnise' a marriage. Consummate is what happens in the honeymoon bed. ;-)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Edited by: Seanus Apr 25, 10, 23:43 #21
So what of people who believe in the word of the Bible that haven't been baptised? What about converts?

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Apr 25, 10, 23:50 #22
Seanus: So what of people who believe in the word of the Bible that haven't been baptised? They are waiting to be baptised. Seanus: What about converts? Likewise.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 25, 10, 23:58 #23
Hmm....good old procedures :)

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