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Which cities in Poland have the most expats, and why?


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warszawskiThreads: 60
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Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Apr 9, 11, 12:03    #1
Which city in Poland has the most Expats ( British, Irish, French, Spanish and American) and what is the reason for the draw to each city.

For example,
Krakow seems to have a large number of Irish expats.
Warsaw seems to have a sizable French community.

What about Gdansk, Łodz. Poznan and Wroclaw?
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
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Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂ 		 Apr 9, 11, 12:11    #2
warszawski:
( British, Irish, French, Spanish and American)

All these are names of countries with wonderful friends and expats in Poland. However, by "American" do you mean USA? I once had a good experiences of someone reminding me that "America" stands for two continents and many other nations rather than just USA.

Also, there are other nationalities in Poland aswell, you can call them expats too. They range from the Vietnam to the North Europeans, North Africans, Middle East, Indian Subcontinent and Chinese. I had been fortunate to meet a person from Samoa yesterday. He was from the Pacific Samoa (there are two Samoas). A nice man who is interesting in increasing trade with Poland.

Well, as your title suggested "expats in Poland", so I think the range can be much more wider. Poland is definitely gaining wider world's interest :). It is true we are not near as diverse as other European nations, maybe because of our economy? ... but still there are more reasons why people can and do fall in love with Poland :).
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Apr 9, 11, 12:13    #3
warszawski:
What about Gdansk, Łodz. Poznan and Wroclaw?


Not many in Poznan, unless you count the medical school idiots who only study here because it's renowned as being one of the easiest and cheapest ways to get a medical degree that can be used in the States.
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
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Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂ 		 Apr 9, 11, 12:21    #4
delphiandomine:
medical school idiots

So you want to call them idiots because they are trying to make life easier for themselves?
warszawskiThreads: 60
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Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Apr 9, 11, 12:28    #5
Lodz_The_Boat:
Also, there are other nationalities in Poland aswell, you can call them expats too. They range from the Vietnam to the North Europeans, North Africans, Middle East, Indian Subcontinent and Chinese. I had been fortunate to meet a person from Samoa yesterday. He was from the Pacific Samoa (there are two Samoas). A nice man who is interesting in increasing trade with Poland



LTB, you can bring to the discussion any nationality, I have my own opinion for the reason why people moving to PL choose certain cities, If we look at certain sectors in PL

Warsaw- Diplomatic corp, Real estate,Banking Finance, Media
Krakow - Outsource centers, Students
Wroclaw- IT
StuThreads: 27
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Joined: Mar 31, 10 ♂ 		 Apr 9, 11, 12:32    #6
Lodz_The_Boat:
So you want to call them idiots because they are trying to make life easier for themselves?


Maybe off-topic, but I'd rather have a fully qualified doctor who didn't make life easy for himself but who had a proper education.
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
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Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂ 		 Apr 9, 11, 12:50    #7
warszawski:
If we look at certain sectors in PL

Yes ofcourse, you very well have your own opinion and I respect this for you! I just included mine to this thread, nothing else :). It is after all about my country (your's too?) and expats I know well from a few nations.

You are correct about those sectors, but then there are students who are potential citizens too. I know some move away to Western Europe, but I know a few who decided to settle in Europe and are doing good here. This land is not as "out of opportunity" as some people would like to make it look like.

Ofcourse, I think you have a valid point that such big sectors must be having expats from the Western World who are surely looking at the benefits of investing in Poland. I think if our government becomes a little more sensible, we can actually have many more such investments, and thus a bigger number of Expats too.

Stu:
fully qualified doctor

Polish doctors might not be excellent, but they are not unqualified.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Apr 9, 11, 12:51    #8
Lodz_The_Boat:
So you want to call them idiots because they are trying to make life easier for themselves?


I call them idiots because by and far, they are. They behave disgracefully, they look down on Poland and act like they're much better than they are.

The only reason they come here is because they couldn't get into a decent medical school elsewhere.
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
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Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂ 		 Apr 9, 11, 12:59    #9
delphiandomine:
they look down on Poland

Can you show or tell an example on it.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Apr 9, 11, 13:00    #10
Lodz_The_Boat:
Polish doctors might not be excellent, but they are not unqualified.


Polish doctors are fine.

The English programme at Poznan Medical University...well. To say "a bit of a joke" would be an understatement.
warszawskiThreads: 60
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Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Apr 9, 11, 13:02    #11
delphiandomine:
The only reason they come here is because they couldn't get into a decent medical school elsewhere.


It is also the cost as well Delph, do you know what difference is between PL and USA/Cananda as far as cost and expenses are concerned for medical students.
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: SeanBM  Apr 9, 11, 13:04    #12
warszawski:
Warsaw- Diplomatic corp, Real estate,Banking Finance, Media
Krakow - Outsource centers, Students
Wroclaw- IT


That's an interesting observation, I was wondering how you came to a nationalist attraction to certain cities.
warszawskiThreads: 60
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Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Apr 9, 11, 13:08    #13
SeanBM:
That's an interesting observation, I was wondering how you came to a nationalist attraction to certain cities.


Why are there so many Irish in Krakow, SeanBM?
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Apr 9, 11, 13:10    #14
warszawski:
It is also the cost as well Delph, do you know what difference is between PL and USA/Cananda as far as cost and expenses are concerned for medical students.


I'm going by last year's data, but as I recall, you were looking at about $35k in the USA for a medical degree as opposed to $17k in Poznan. That's another reason why it's a bit of a joke - it attracts those who want a cheap medical degree on a course where they're unlikely to be failed (the university doesn't want to put people off!).

The thing I've found is that here, the vast majority of them are only here because it's an easy route into medicine. Barely any of them are here for any other reason - indeed, they seem to be pretty oblivious to life in general here outside of their world.

I know a lecturer here who teaches them, and her opinion of them is that the course is definitely much easier than the one Polish students do.
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: SeanBM  Apr 9, 11, 13:11    #15
warszawski:
Why are there so many Irish in Krakow, SeanBM?

I don't honestly know, I am here because I was offered a job here which paid for my plane ticket and I stay because it is a beautiful city.


I met many Scandinavians in Poznan, studying to be doctors there because it is very expensive in Norway.

Another thing that attracts certain nations is transportation. The airlines ''Norwegian'' have dropped there prices dramatically to Krakow, the effectbeing now Krakow is full of Norwegian tourists.

When I came to Poland first there were no cheap flights flying here and when Ryan air started, there was a massive influx of tourists, who would not have come here otherwise. They go home and tell other people and the domino effect begins.

delphiandomine:
it attracts those who want a cheap medical degree

Yeah! poor people shouldn't be allowed to study :x

delphiandomine:
unlikely to be failed

That's a fair point but not wanting to be in huge debt is a natural thing.
warszawskiThreads: 60
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Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Apr 9, 11, 13:15    #16
SeanBM:
They go home and tell other people and the domino effect begins


Statesreet, was shipping in a lot of Irish to Krakow at one stage to cross train the Poles. I also believe a lot of workers come over on assignment, get to the end of the contract and decide Poland has more to offer.
Monia  Apr 9, 11, 14:06    #17
delphiandomine:
of the easiest and cheapest ways to get a medical degree


Ah , you are an expert, cuz you studied there and in other renowned schols , so you can compare . I bet you have no idea about it , just ussual complaining . To be a student of medical univerisities you have to pass a general test equal to everyone . You have to get 90 out of 100 % to be qualified . You have to pass 3 subject : chemistry, physics and biology . I have had a boyfriend and many other female friends who studied medicine in Poland and I am telling you that they had their heads in books for 24/24 hours a day for 6 years . I also have my sister in law and many polish friends who passed american exam to get paper to be a doctor in the states . One of my friends passed it without a problem after just half a year of language preparation Many books required by polish universities are axactly the same as american
( american authors ). But you know better ! I think it is quite opposite than what you claim .
Monia  Apr 9, 11, 14:18    #18
warszawski:
do you know what difference is between PL and USA/Cananda as far as cost and expenses are concerned for medical students.



That`s the reason . The cost of a tuition in USA is 50 000 $ per year + all expences , it sums up to much more. Who can afford ? Only the rich . It is very good that polish universities can enroll foreign students because they pay more than polish and the med univ can get more money . Poznań med univ is a very good school , dentistry faculty is very modern , all new , take a look in the internet .
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
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Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂ 		 Apr 9, 11, 14:46    #19
Good explanations Monia.

We really need to stand up for ourselves, as Poles, sometimes.

Yes, it is good to know everyone's views, but Poles have their own stance on a few things. I think our Universities are good enough. It is not so bad that people will just discount is, calling it "silly" or other derogatory names.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: delphiandomine  Apr 9, 11, 14:47    #20
Monia:
To be a student of medical univerisities you have to pass a general test equal to everyone . You have to get 90 out of 100 % to be qualified . You have to pass 3 subject : chemistry, physics and biology . I have had a boyfriend and many other female friends who studied medicine in Poland and I am telling you that they had their heads in books for 24/24 hours a day for 6 years . I also have my sister in law and many polish friends who passed american exam to get paper to be a doctor in the states . One of my friends passed it without a problem after just half a year of language preparation Many books required by polish universities are axactly the same as american


Yes, if you're Polish studying a Polish programme.

But if you're following the English programme, the university is notorious for producing very poor graduates with an attitude problem - I know several people who have dealt with them in the university, and the opinion is very, very poor. Even the Polish students can see that they get "special attention" because they're paying a lot of money (in Polish terms) every year.

As for the entrance tests? Needless to say, I've heard quite a bit of gossip surrounding the integrity of such tests. Given that the Polish education system has huge problems, would anyone be surprised if people were bribing their way in?

Monia:
. It is very good that polish universities can enroll foreign students because they pay more than polish and the med univ can get more money . Poznań med univ is a very good school , dentistry faculty is very modern , all new , take a look in the internet .


Good for who? Is it really good that Poznan is churning out graduates who couldn't get into/pass medical school in the United States?

The English programmes are a joke. Even talking about dentistry, there are quite a lot of Asian students who have very dodgy English - yet they still pass. Why? Because they pay.

(the Polish programmes on the other hand are very tough and of a decent enough quality)
Monia  Apr 9, 11, 15:07    #21
delphiandomine:
the Polish programmes on the other hand are very tough


I know that polish students are treated differently , but we will not deal with less qualified med staff here in Poland , to my relief .

On the other hand those students will have to pass american tests, anyway , to become qualified for med practice in USA . If they pass (they usually do ), so what the heck! they are qualified !!!!
Don`t worry they will not kill you .

It just means nothing but, that polish schools are more difficult than others, especially for polish students ( thats why polish students complain) and polish doctors are much more qualified than foreign . My friend who is a dentist runs a big clinic here in Warsaw . He employed a dentist who had a lot of problems with patients , his knowledge and skills were very average so he advised him to go to England . The guy did it and after two years he came for a visit and told my friend that his opinion among patients and employers is superb . So my opinion is that polish doctors after such tough studies are really one of the best in the world ( surgeons are the elite - they get the contracts wherevever they want )).
PennBoyThreads: 157
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Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Apr 9, 11, 15:25    #22
Polandia on Wirtualna Polska (in English) shows experiences of different expats living in Poland
http://polandia.wp.tv/en/index.html#m769065
southernThreads: 116
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Joined: May 17, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: southern  Apr 9, 11, 15:33    #23
It all depends on the selection system.US system enrolls 30000 students into medical schools each year.This means out of a population of 300 million only 30000 are admitted by hard exams.The proportion is similar in Greece.(1000 out of 10 million population).
So in order to see how difficult it is in Poland you just divide the number of accepted to the total population provided that medicine is no.1 choice among applicants.(which is often not the case in eastern Europe due to low local doctors salaries).
This means that the US students who are mediocre and fail to get admitted into US medical schools find this easy way.They would not have a problem if not for the fact that the foreign doctors who have studied in foreign universities get better grades in the USMLE exams than the US doctors who have studied abroad.This is a shame for the latter who try to ban the vaccancies of foreign doctors by political action for natives preference despite the latters worse grades and less qualifications.

Anyway the problem is complicated since heritage and social connections matter a lot and medical schools wherever they are cannot be an exception from that(except the greek and french medical schools which are based on numerus clausus by strict objective exams but the greek proffessors do their sh1t after and get people into school out of the window as we say).
convexThreads: 46
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Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Apr 9, 11, 15:52    #24
delphiandomine:
As for the entrance tests? Needless to say, I've heard quite a bit of gossip surrounding the integrity of such tests. Given that the Polish education system has huge problems, would anyone be surprised if people were bribing their way in?

Not sure about Poznan, but the Medical University in Wroclaw uses a committee approach. Doctors from around the world judge an applicant. For US applicants, MCAT results are required. Apparently they're not hurting for applicants either.
Echidna Edited by: Echidna  Apr 9, 11, 16:21    #25
Where do most Aussies live in Poland? Don't forget about us! If nothing else we have close to the best reasonably priced red wine (25 - 35 Zlotys) for sale in most large supermarkets and wine shops.

I would like Australia to export as a sign of friendship between our nations, some drop bears for a Polish zoo. http://www.kadaitcha.com/2007/10/07/the-dreaded-drop-bears-of-oz/

Self portrait http://blather.net/abroad/archives/2008/03/tasmanian_echidna_1.html
BBmanThreads: -
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Joined: Jan 4, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: BBman  Apr 10, 11, 01:11    #26
delphiandomine:
Yes, if you're Polish studying a Polish programme.


I agree with you delph. But don't forget about those Poles who pay to get into the Polish programme, they're no better than the foreigners paying to get into the English programme.
warszawskiThreads: 60
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Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 11, 02:28    #27
Echidna:
Where do most Aussies live in Poland?


I have met Aussies in Warsaw and krakow, but not in big numbers.
warszawskiThreads: 60
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Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 11, 02:46    #28
The number of expats in popular Polish cities?

The above is not the title of the thread I started, so I am intrigued to know who changed it?
1jolaThreads: 33
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Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 11, 06:35    #29
delphiandomine:
medical school idiots

Those 'idiots' will become doctors and hopefully will go back to their countries with a pleasant experience of living and studying in Poland. Perhaps some will even stay. They will be able to go back because they will have a useful degree and a useful profession.

No reason for personal attacks.
mafketisThreads: 17
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Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂ 		 Apr 10, 11, 09:38    #30
Have a friend who (very briefly) taught in the English program. It took him over a year to get paid (disgraceful considering how much tuition the students pay). When they came back to ask again he told them to take a flying leap.

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