HELP IN IMMIGRATION SOUGHT " PERMANENT RESIDENCE IN POLSKA"

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Jan 25, 10, 12:04 #1

I'm writting this on behalf of my South African Mate.

The story is simple he's going through hell with the Polish Bureaucracy trying to sort out his Permanent Residency. He is married to a lovely Polish lass and they have a Daughter together. They have been married for over 3years now and he has been living here together with his wife for all that time on KARTĘ POBYTU.The one renewed every 2years.
The law clearly states that if he is eligible for Permanent Residency now But the Woiwodship office in ŁÓDŻ have told him to wait for another year to apply.

I know the 16 Woiwodships in this country are administered differently as part of the Complicated Bureaucracy but is this allowed? Coz he tells me that he knows someone who applied for his Permanent Residency Last year and got it after 3years of being married and residing in Polska. (In a different Woiwodship of coz)

I need your help folks is there anyone who has experienced something similar to this or has better knowledge on aquiring permanent residency through MARRIAGE???

I want to emphasize that getting permanent residence through marriage is different from getting it through the other way of residing here first with the 5 year Kartę Pobytu.

Dziękujemy

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Jan 25, 10, 12:20 #2

al111:

The law clearly states that if he is eligible for Permanent Residency now But the Woiwodship office in ŁÓDŻ have told him to wait for another year to apply.

What he has to do is go to the office with the law clearly printed out and tell them straight that they have to accept the application on the basis of the law. Such nonsense like this is common, but if you speak to them firmly and decisively, it usually yields results. However - has he actually applied, or is he going by what they tell him at the window? The window-monkeys are just front line staff and don't make decisions - if they fuss about it, tell them that their job is simply to process the application and not to make decisions.

If he's already applied and has been told this nonsense - you can pass my e-mail to him - office@lindenia.net and I'll be happy to advise further. I'm happy to do this for free - I'd like more experience with non-EU people and the problems they face.

al111Threads: 34 Posts: 106 Joined: Sep 2, 09 ♂	Jan 25, 10, 13:00 #3
Delphy you are a Star Matie. The problem with me mate is he listens a lot to all them window monkeys for sure. they even told him that the last application for Kartę Pobytu was late according to the 45day period before expiry. I told him the same that he should make the application and not to wait to be told when to apply. He has'nt applied yet. I'll definately give him your e-mail Dzięki

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Jan 25, 10, 13:35 #4

al111:

they even told him that the last application for Kartę Pobytu was late according to the 45day period before expiry.

This is true, sort of - they have 45 days to process it, so to keep on the safe side, you should do so. But at the same time, they're allowed to grant you legal residence until the decision has been made.

al111:

I told him the same that he should make the application and not to wait to be told when to apply. He has'nt applied yet.

Yes, definitely - the window monkeys often know very little about things and will tell you all sorts of nonsense based on how they think it should be. The real people dealing with things are a bit more sensible.

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Jan 25, 10, 22:03 #5

I live under the administration of the łódż office.

It clearly states on their own website that the conditions for obtaining the right for permanent settlement are. A minimum of 2 years residency and at least 3 years of marriage to a Polish citizen.

I obtained my stałego pobytu through marriage even though I have lived here long enough to obtain it for 'time served'.

At łódź you definitely need to be firm (not arrogant or rude just firm). They told me that I needed to provide 13 items when in fact only 4 items were necessary.

I gave them the 4 items along with the application and recieved my stałego pobytu in due course.

Sometimes they appear to not understand what they are doing. Ie asking for an original copy of my 'decysja' for my 5 year EU card. I had to explain that they didn't give a copy of the decysja. I had to go into the office where they showed it on the computer when they issued the card in the first place.

I was applying for 'dokument potwierdzający prawo stałego pobytu' whereas for someone who is not already an EU citizen, they will be applying for 'Zezwolenie na osiedlenie się'.

All that I needed to provide was

Passport
Mariage certificate
Wifes ID card
My last EU long stay card

Of course huge numbers of photocopies of the above and lots of passport style pics

What the actual law for zezwolenie na osiedlenie się is I can't say because I haven't checked it.

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Jan 25, 10, 22:50 #6

stevepl:

Sometimes they appear to not understand what they are doing.

I think the problem has been that historically, no-one was stopping them from making up things on the spot. Listen to the stories from people dealing with bureaucracy in communist times - the bureaucrat was powerful and could insist on anything if he/she felt like it. Nowadays, of course they aren't powerful - but I get the feeling that the mentality lingers on in some places.

As you say, being firm is the best approach - let them know that you know the law, that the law is in front of them and that if they don't accept the application, they'll be hearing from a solicitor in due course. The instinctive Polish reaction ("****, must cover my ass, what if he's right?") kicks in and they'll accept it ;)

The problem is also further caused by the lack of clear guidelines - for instance, Poznan demands that you give over a bank statement showing sufficient funds to support yourself. If you ask them what they think is sufficient, they don't actually know themselves - it's entirely up to the person on the day. There are no guidelines (that I've found or seen) to actually say what is enough money for an EU citizen to not need a work contract.

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Jun 14, 10, 10:24 #7

Thread attached on merging:
My friend's husband is applying for permanent residence. Questions on paperwork.

My friend's husband is due to apply for permanent residence here in Poland,the paperwork and the stories doing the round are driving them nuts. They have not yet applied they are gathering information so i thought some of you who have experience here might help.

The husband is South African and her Polish. They got married in a USC office of the same town they still reside in, here in Wielkopolskie. When they got married as is the case here in Poland the Town Hall demanded His Original Birthcertificate which they have kept in their file and returned a certified photocopy. So their worry is they have heard that the office for foreigners here in Poznań might ask him to produce another Original Birthcertificate. To them it's a nightmare as it takes a very long time to apply for another one and later alone the questions they will be asked as to why they would require a second.

I have no experience in this type of Polish Bureaucracy YET. But i just don't think it's logical that they would ask him to produce another Original Birthcertificate considering he has already surrendered the only one he had at their local USC office and that he has been registered in the same town, same address from the time they got married.

Can anyone who has gone through this shade some light on this matter.

Thank you all..

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 14, 10, 12:53 #8
al111: When they got married as is the case here in Poland the Town Hall demanded His Original Birthcertificate which they have kept in their file and returned a certified photocopy. They certainly shouldn't have done such a thing - they should have supplied a notarized copy, nothing more.

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Jun 14, 10, 13:51 #9

delphiandomine:

They certainly shouldn't have done such a thing - they should have supplied a notarized copy, nothing more.

Well unfortunately they had to coz the guy in the USC office was instructed to get the original.Thanks for your help Delphy we called the Office and checked out the required documents on the website they can only ask for an original Birthcertificate if they got married outside Poland. But if married in Poland their marriage certificate will be just fine.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Edited by: Wroclaw Jun 14, 10, 16:38 #10
al111: Well unfortunately they had to coz the guy in the USC office was instructed to get the original. it should be an original copy. in other words, a duplicate copy issued by the registrar, which is then certified/translated by an authorized translator.

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Jun 14, 10, 20:00 #11

delphiandomine:

Yes, definitely - the window monkeys often know very little about things and will tell you all sorts of nonsense based on how they think it should be. The real people dealing with things are a bit more sensible.

I completely agree wit this one. When I tried to apply for a meldunek na stale ( and hence getting registered for local and EU elections, every PO vote counts in this country) two years ago, the local bureauctatists dismissed it out of hand. They thought it was a laughable concept. Later I went back with Danish "kumpel" who knew the legislation very well... He asked straightly not for the chief bureaucratist. He had all the relevant EU legislation printed out and offered to take it all a few instances higher. Grumpily Bielany caved in. Got my meldunek na stale and got registered to vote.
Anecdote: Even when they were making my new meldunek, one of the bureaucratists was muttering "In your Belgium I would never get this". Nonsense of course. They were defeated and they knew it.

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Jun 14, 10, 20:46 #12

al111:

the Town Hall demanded His Original Birthcertificate which they have kept in their file and returned a certified photocopy

That's backwards, AFAIK they're within their rights to want to see the original and a copy together. Then they keep the copy and return the orirignal (at least that's what happened in my case, but the local office liked me, even suggesting I apply for stały pobyt when I didn't realize I qualified....

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Jun 14, 10, 21:35 #13

sobieski:

When I tried to apply for a meldunek na stale ( and hence getting registered for local and EU elections, every PO vote counts in this country) two years ago

You shouldn't have needed the permanent residency to register to vote - it's a basic EU right that anyone legally resident - temporarily or permanently in another EU state has the right to vote in local and EU elections. At least in Poznan, the defining factor was the EU 5 year temporary residence card.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 14, 10, 22:09 #14
delphiandomine: At least in Poznan, the defining factor was the EU 5 year temporary residence card. That's what I needed to show in Warsaw (Srodmiescie) to register to vote.

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Jun 14, 10, 23:17 #15

mafketis:

That's backwards, AFAIK they're within their rights to want to see the original and a copy together.

I don't know how it works in other countries, but my original birth certificate remains in the city I was born in in California. I have a notarized copy and that's been sufficient every time I've applied for my karta pobytu.

I've got an American friend in Warsaw who's married to a Polish woman. After eight years here he applied for Polish citizenship and should get it this year. He's jumped through all the bureaucratic hoops without having to provide an original.

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Jun 16, 10, 01:56 #16

scottie1113:

I don't know how it works in other countries, but my original birth certificate remains in the city I was born in in California. I have a notarized copy

By 'original' I meant 'notarized copy' of course. The distinction I intended was that I showed them that (with a xerox of the notarized copy) and they kept the xerox not the notarized copy. I thought that 'orignal' would same some space, in vain.

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