Poland: In Top First 15 Countries in the WORLD by the number of CRIMES

What millions?? witin two years?? i rest my case. Its all in the stats im afraid thats the best thing about FACTS they are FACTS.

Yeah but I bet that you can buy more in Germany than you could buy in Poland for doing unskilled labour.

Convex, there just aren't enough jobs for everyone. As WB said, facts are facts.

You have just given me an extra string for the bow. Poland has traditionally not charged for education but that is starting to change.

Fighting, fair enough, but I think your definition of comfortable and that of WB's are 2 very different things.

5.15 or 5.35,

No minimum wage? Ok, let's look at that. I've heard of people earn less than 4PLN per hour here (giving out flyers). That's under 1 pound. Britain has a minimum wage of 5.15 or 5.35, sth like that (pounds). Germany wouldn't pay that low, sorry. Ask BB.

Rent is through the roof here and there is a thread on it should you care to read it. It's about most Poles not being rich enough to afford a good place with modern heating options.

There aren't enough jobs in many areas, convex. Bring back 800,000 people and that'll make it even worse. Look, think of it this way. Look around you at how many individual flats/houses there are in any given city. In Gliwice, around 210,000 people. You can't tell me that there are enough jobs for all of them. That's absurd! There are jobs for unskilled labourers here, they just aren't well paid.

Poles taking extra loans, LOL. Can't you see a credit crisis looming here if that happens? It'll create a major headache for credit enforcement authorities. Just ask Mister H about the position in the UK.

Yeah but there isn't in Poland and that's my point. They are offered peanuts and can barely make ends meet. There aren't many openings either.

1200PLN gives you what, only the roof over your head or all utilities with it as well?

Fly a plane? Probably yes as there is a defunct airport here but it's still used for those with private aircraft and other flying options.

What is the principle of a loan? In your eyes, is there a difference between a loan and a gift? There should be! You invest in studies, fair enough, but there are no guarantees at the end and many can vouch for that.

There aren't enough jobs in many areas, convex. Bring back 800,000 people and that'll make it even worse. Look, think of it this way. Look around you at how many individual flats/houses there are in any given city. In Gliwice, around 210,000 people. You can't tell me that there are enough jobs for all of them. That's absurd! There are jobs for unskilled labourers here, they just aren't well paid.

You are confusing two different things, work and study. Some don't study and we all know how paper-heavy Poland treats them.

You still haven't answered my question about a loan and a gift. So why doesn't everyone go and study the subjects with the plum jobs at the end? Many reasons I think you'll find. What their family did, their preferred career, the way they think etc etc. Certain people match certain jobs and not everyone goes where the money is. Society needs people to keep thinking this way, accepting less money but serving their social function. Just imagine where we'd be if nobody wanted to do jobs like garbage disposal and other public service jobs.

Not everybody has the option at all, that's crap. Do you really think that the 11% of the registered unemployed want to be? Some yes but the majority? Don't you think they'd rather have money in their pockets and bank accounts? Let me ask you this, would you like to earn 10k a month? How about 25k? Maybe 50? If you don't earn that, why not? Define comfortably please.

More and more people are rich so of course it's possible. However, many aren't because they are in jobs for them. Look at those in the UK, for example, that do PhD research and take up science posts. Have you ever read Focus? You'll see that they earn about 12-13k a year. They are using their intelligence to further some field of humanity but do not live comfortably in the definition of many. It's all relative!

That's my point!

Loans need to be paid back and some can't due to not getting employment. Sorry but this was commonplace in Scotland and probably still is. Loans are not gifts. Just describe a loan to me and you'll see what I mean.

Well, that's a different industry that has chosen to award some. What about those other areas that contribute to human development in another way? Should we make them live with much less because they are making a 'different' contribution? You have entered into the territory of assigning values to jobs without really ascertaining their respective merits. You will see many anomalies if you look close enough.

I'm talking about people who have chosen a given path because they feel it is what they are meant to do.

But my point is that they don't want to take out extra loans as they probably have loans out on a car or are making downpayments for a pad.

Yes, students. Poles start university later than we do, at around 19 after their MATURA. They can legally drive at 17. Many want the mobility that a car provides but their PT job will barely cover the insurance, nevermind the car. OK, few go for a pad so early but they pay for their student digs.

Are you comfortable doing sth which completely doesn't fit you? Would you be stressed and uncomfortable?

I meant that they can't pay for the insurance even and that's before buying the car. Not 'nevermind' the car in that sense. A loan is a help AND a hindrance.

Gumtree is not the most reliable. 500 perhaps. That's a lot of money when you are only working PT.

So they are not comfortable exactly. You have just proven my point. You can't pick and choose and sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. That's what I was saying. Few people can just waltz into jobs that pay more than 10k a month. Some realism is needed.

Isn't it bizarre that when the pound started to fall against the zloty, people moved home?

Sebastian:
The economy is not great and all my relatives who live in Poland always ***** and complain on how bad it is over there (low salary, high costs for food etc). They always tell me how the roads and buildings are poor

Every single word of that is true. Poland is a horrid place to live for an average Joe.
Why do you think over 3 million mostly young people left this country since 2004?
Out of all my friends from my home town maybe 30-40% are still in Poland.
In small towns it feels like there was a bloody war - so many people are gone.

So they are not comfortable exactly. You have just proven my point. You can't pick and choose and sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. That's what I was saying. Few people can just waltz into jobs that pay more than 10k a month. Some realism is needed.

Choices increase your chances but luck plays a major part, contacts too.

How do you get to that point? Study philology and apply at HP after getting your bachelors degree. They are hiring along with IBM, anyone they can get their hands on.

higher anyone they can get their hands on

It would be if it was true, the fact is most Poles remained in the UK as its easier over there. Which brings us back to "they couldnt make it in Poland" for all the reasons were discussing here.

another lie, i have many Poles applying for employemnt with me that are highly educated, i always refer them to IBM and HP in Wroclaw.

That's funny, my girlfriend got a job. No connections, just applied.

Again, we're talking about easy vs. not being possible.

It is possible to make middle class money in Poland.

Anybody who decides to have a family should be financially secure. I'm guessing that he wasn't a big believer in the medical system before having a child, with that in mind, was there an expectation that it would change? Was there financial planning for this?

Maybe she did but that doesnt translate to "highering everyone they can get their hands on" in my book.

Again, we're talking about easy vs. not being possible.

Ahh no i never said it was not possible, stop putting words into my mouth. In anycase I wouldnt class going to England, finding your way around a foreign country with basic to no English, finding accomodation, sourcing work, to be easy, would you? Its a question of having to in order to make ends meet.

Its possible stop with the rhetoric, never said it wasnt possible.

You can make it work here of course but you need several factors in your favor including some luck.

So to answer your question yes he had financial planning, he didnt forsee his child becoming ill and he didnt know a reccession would hit Poland.

it's funny that you keep denying that some ethnic groups are more criminal than others.

sorry, but that's bullsh#t. nobody needs to rob somebody to survive.
they want to be rich quick and they don't care about making innocent (usually white) victims.

You don't need luck, you need to choose a profession which is in demand

Do you trust the health care system here? If you were planning a family, would you trust the life of your child to public health care, especially if you know how the system operates?

because it is not true. It is a myth, most statistics state otherwise- that is if you looked at them, but then again, all the statistics lie, so this discussion does not make sense.

looks like you found a scapegoat- crimes are not exclusive to race but to the social class.

professions in demand

ahh the old crystal ball technique. What if everybody chooses a career that is in high demand at the same time like nieruchomosci?, (using your own techniques against you). Let me know about those lottery numbers as well.

Bribes are common place in Poland, the bigger the illness the bigger the bribe. Would i bribe if my child was in hospital and i didnt have the spare cash - yes.

The point is bad luck falls on everyone everynow and again, we cant forsee it, in Poland the support is not there. Im sure youve had your fair share of bad luck. So dont give me that above crap.

Im still waiting for you to explain 3,000,000 Poles abroad over the past 5 years, highly skilled and professional young Poles that studied in demand professions. According to you they should be here living middle class lives.

There's bad luck and bad risk management.

you can "make it" in Poland. No luck involved.

I've already told you time and time again. If the minimum wage in France was €25 an hour, I'm sure that you'd see millions of Spaniards moving across the border as well. You simply make more money there, which is why more Poles are moving to the UK than all other EU countries combined. I don't want to use the mail as a reference, but

So you admit to ^: but not

Ive also told you that the reason they flooded to the UK was because of the lack of emigration control, not better money or work opportunities. If Germany, Italy, France etc imposed no restrictions think how may more millions would have fled. Thus highlighting the lack of opportunity in Poland even more....