Who is poor in Poland?

Tetiana

Edited by: Moderator May 28, 11, 21:10 #1

Dear Pollish representatives,

Would you be so kind to clarify one moment:

According to the Family Benefits Act:
A person is entitled to the family benefit if an average monthly income per person in the family of the qualified person, obtained in the calendar year preceding the benefit period does not exceed the amount corresponding to 50 per cent of an average monthly income
It is 184 us dolars or 504 zllotas.

1/ But how it can be if the avarage salsry in Poland is 1225 dolars?????
2/ Who is considered poor in Poland????

Please help!!!

f stopThreads: 33 Posts: 2,861 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	May 28, 11, 21:29 #2
I guess that means that a if person makes an average salary, he or she is not considered poor. But, if that person has a spouse that does not work, and one child, then they fall below the poverty level.

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,142 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	May 28, 11, 22:03 #3
Being in poor in Warsaw or for example in Augustów has a whole different meaning. A pensioner living in a flat in Warsaw compared to the same pensioner living in a village outside the capital and growing his/her own vegetables is also another story. Especially here in Poland statistics do tell nothing.

Tetiana	May 28, 11, 22:15 #4
It is 184/ I figured it out that it is the level of stated poverty. Why in the legislation it is said about average wage, I have no klue. Any ideas?

THE HITMANThreads: 1 Posts: 416 Joined: Jun 15, 10 ♂	May 28, 11, 23:06 #5
Tetiana: Who is considered poor in Poland? Honest people.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 28, 11, 23:09 #6
ZUS are doing their best to make me just that but they aren't there yet :) Who is poor? That's not such a black and white question, really.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	May 28, 11, 23:37 #7
Tetiana: Who is poor in poland!!! ~75% of the population.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 28, 11, 23:38 #8
I represent the 15% on the borderline ;) ;)

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	May 28, 11, 23:39 #9
Tetiana: Who is considered poor in Poland???? Only the politicians are poor in Poland.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	May 28, 11, 23:57 #10
Tetiana: Who is poor in poland!!! The Eastern European country's economic miracle hasn't lifted all boats. More than 25% of Polish schoolkids grow up in poverty http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/may2008/gb2008056_273599 .htm

♂

May 29, 11, 00:00 #11

Tetiana:

1/ But how it can be if the avarage salsry in Poland is 1225 dolars?????
2/ Who is considered poor in Poland????

1225 usd is about 15,000 usd per year.. Is this average annual income per person in Poland? In Turkey, it is said to be about 11-12,000 usd which is actually good money considering daily life consumed goods are cheap here.
But, this data is a cheating data. Not a lie, but, not a truth either.
This annual income per person is calculated by dividing total income of the country by the population number. IF the distribution were equally, we could talk about average annual income per person. But, the reality is that; 5-10% of population take 50% of total budget/income and the remaining money 50% of total is distributed through a hierarchic cascade to people who are 90%. So, the real average annual income per person in Poland is not 15,000 usd, but, somethings like 5000 usd which means about 400-500 usd per month. If your salary is lower than this, you can be considered as poor.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,225 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	May 29, 11, 11:33 #12
Grzegorz_: ~75% of the population. For me everybody is poor in Lublin compared to western europe. I don't know how people survive here. I'd say 90% in the east of Poland are broke and living on hope for better days.

GrzegorzK	May 29, 11, 11:39 #13
In few years Poland will be superpower.

♂ [Suspended]

May 29, 11, 14:02 #14

THE HITMAN:

Honest people.

I don't do anything immoral in business (all income declared, etc etc) and do just fine.

That's usually the line spouted by those who are just too damned lazy to actually work for a day in their life.

guesswho:

The Eastern European country's economic miracle hasn't lifted all boats. More than 25% of Polish schoolkids grow up in poverty

Utter nonsense. They might not have the latest clothes or gaming systems, but that doesn't make them poor.

Poverty is when you don't have food, clothing and shelter. Not many kids in Poland suffer from a lack of all three.

In fact, I'd argue that 95% of poverty in Poland is due to parental neglect. Given that you can fill a basket with fresh produce for 10zl a day - there really is no excuse for the vast majority of children to ever go to school hungry.

teflcatThreads: 6 Posts: 1,071 Joined: May 29, 11 ♂	May 29, 11, 14:19 #15
delphiandomine Given that you can fill a basket with fresh produce for 10zl a day - there really is no excuse for the vast majority of children to ever go to school hungry. Where do you go shopping? How could you possibly fill a basket for 10zł a day?

♂ [Suspended]

May 29, 11, 14:27 #16

teflcat:

Where do you go shopping? How could you possibly fill a basket for 10zł a day?

Local greengrocer.

There's normally all sorts of stuff available for 1-2zl a kilo - for instance, potatoes never go above 2zl a kilo, and I've seen them as cheap as 60gr at one point last year. Then there's always all sorts of stuff that's in season - it's really not difficult to walk away with a huge basket of produce for 10zl. You can, at least, get 4-5kg of food a day for about 10zl.

It won't be particularly varied or appetising, but food is food.

♂

May 29, 11, 14:35 #17

delphiandomine:

I don't do anything immoral in business (all income declared, etc etc) and do just fine.

Whose talking about you ? Again that self-centered egotistic attitude. Try putting your equity to one side and starting with nothing you midden.

delphiandomine:

That's usually the line spouted by those who are just too damned lazy to actually work for a day in their life.

I don,t think you know the meaning of the word work, and as for lazy, well thats another you can add to the list.
You probably came to Poland with capital behind you, giving you the opportunity to start your business. A majority of Poles didn,t and don,t have such good fortune.

Post 11 probably gives the best reflection so far. Try discussing it with NomadatNet, instead of trying to have a dig at me.

delphiandomine:

In fact, I'd argue that 95% of poverty in Poland is due to parental neglect. Given that you can fill a basket with fresh produce for 10zl a day - there really is no excuse for the vast majority of children to ever go to school hungry.

Now you,re living in cloud cuckoo land.

MaaarysiaThreads: 3 Posts: 541 Joined: Feb 27, 10 ♀	Edited by: Maaarysia May 29, 11, 14:42 #18
delphiandomine: children to ever go to school hungry. The problem is rather with main meals (lunch) than with food in general. If they go hungry then yes it's true it's pure negligance.

♂

May 29, 11, 14:51 #19

Tetiana: 1/ But how it can be if the avarage salsry in Poland is 1225 dolars?????

Bullshit statistic for people who know nothing about statistics. What is important is the mean not the average. The latest "average" I've seen is 3,200 PLN. That is gross pay. What you get to take home is 2,000 PLN per month. Now that is about 700 dollars. Levi's jeans cost 100 dollars. A gallon of gas is about 7 dollars. Minimum wage, and that is about every store employee, is 1,300 PLN or 450 dollars. At minimum wage, you can buy yourself a pair of jeans for week's work. Unless you think jeans are a luxury item.

♂

Edited by: Grzegorz_ May 29, 11, 16:24 #20

1jola:

The latest "average" I've seen is 3,200 PLN. That is gross pay.

Now It's ~3500 a month gross, which is ~2500 net = $890. However the median wage is ~2000 net = ~$710. What's most important is that Poland is definately not a low cost country anymore. These stories how much you can buy for a few PLN are nonsense. We're not the 3rd worlders but Poles in Poland are overall very poor compared to western Europeans, Amercians or Australians.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,225 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	May 29, 11, 16:39 #21
Grzegorz_: but Poles in Poland are overall very poor compared to western Europeans, Amercians or Australians. It's unusual to hear the reality of the situation on the forum.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 29, 11, 16:45 #22
It's largely through inflation and having to pay through the nose for cars and property.

♂

May 29, 11, 16:58 #23

Grzegorz_:

Now It's ~3500 a month gross, which is ~2500 net = $890. However the median wage is ~2000 net = ~$710

If this amount is enough for the daily life needs, basic needs, then, this can't be called a low wage.. $710 in Poland maybe equal to $3000 in Western countries as the costs there are much higher.

I was living in a village in my childhood till teenage.. I was having everythings from vegetables, fruits, etc for free - you won't believe this, I was eating even truffles for free as people were not knowing there its world market price of truffle then which must be now about $500-1000 per kg. Did I have money then? Very little, say, $1000 a year. But, I know now that I was having a life better than a person in Western country with a wage of $10,000 a month.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,225 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	May 29, 11, 17:05 #24
NomadatNet: $710 in Poland maybe equal to $3000 in Western countries as the costs there are much higher. What about cars,property,petrol,electronic goods,clothes????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????? Takes up the bulk of monthly bill.

NomadatNetThreads: 6 Posts: 1,492 Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂	May 29, 11, 17:10 #25
milky: What about cars,property,petrol,electronic goods,clothes?? We are talking about the basic needs.. most of these are not basic needs. There are three levels, they classify so, of economic stiuation of people; richness, medium and poorness. If poorness level in Poland is $500, this level can be $2500 in a Western country due to the living cost differences in these places.

♂

May 29, 11, 17:15 #26

This question shows the inanity of many economic statistics.

In terms of food, shelter, clothing (basic needs) Poland is not especially poor (not rich but the number of homeless or malnourished people isn't that high - and some, not all but some, malnourishment is due to poor diet choices rather than lack of money for food per se).

On the other hand, probably a majority of people in the country have the subjective feeling of being poor and no economic statistics will convince them they're not.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 29, 11, 17:16 #27
Many need cars and petrol to get to work. They need a place to live and clothes on their body. Look up physiological needs, Nomad (Maslow). Those factors outlined by milky are centrally relevant. Inflation is crippling many Poles.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	May 29, 11, 17:19 #28
NomadatNet: $710 in Poland maybe equal to $3000 in Western countries Nonsense. First of all "western countries" is a very broad term, for example cost of living in Oslo and some small town in Ohio are otally different but let's compare Poland with main old EU countries like France, Germany or UK. $710 in Poland would be no more than $1000 over there.

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Edited by: mafketis May 29, 11, 17:24 #29
Seanus: Many need cars and petrol to get to work. The number of Polish people who need cars to get work is nowhere near the number who want cars to get to work. Public transport is cheaper and works well, all things considered. I don't have a car and don't want one in Poland (the sheer number of dangerous scary drivers here is another reason to avoid driving).

♀

May 29, 11, 17:27 #30

delphiandomine:

Utter nonsense. They might not have the latest clothes or gaming systems, but that doesn't make them poor.
Poverty is when you don't have food, clothing and shelter. Not many kids in Poland suffer from a lack of all three.
In fact, I'd argue that 95% of poverty in Poland is due to parental neglect. Given that you can fill a basket with fresh produce for 10zl a day - there really is no excuse for the vast majority of children to ever go to school hungry.

I've only posted what Businessweek,.com says about it and now I see I have to choose between what they say and your comment. Since I was in Poland long enough to be able to talk about it, I tend to agree to at least some of what they say. I've met many young Poles and they were telling me about their families financial problems and many times, they (or their parents) even asked me for help. Yes Sean US, I did have a feeling that many people are poor in Poland (however I've met some really rich ones too).

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