Support wanted to stop the sale of live carp in Poland

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Jan 24, 11, 12:36 #1

Hi everyone,
I know this is a very touchy subject but it one that breaches cruelty laws and I want to help stop it. As we know eating carp for Christmas supper is traditional here and I have no complaints about it. However, to sell the fish alive is absolutely cruel. There are laws that govern the well being of animals, even in Poland. To keep hundreds of carp in small pools in supermarkets is breaking these laws. Placing them in plastic bags is the same as me pushing your heads below water until you die. Carp are able to lower their metabalism and thus survive longer. But it is still suffocating to death. It just takes longer. Did you know that selling fish knowing these fish will suffer is illegal and buying them too is also breaking the law. I am looking for people to support me to stop these barbaric acts.
I should point out that I am English but I have lived in Poland 13 years. I am not anti Polish tradition. I am anti cruelty when it is not needed. I expect flack here but I am ready for that.

Thanks in advance,

Britpol1

VarsovianThreads: 91 Posts: 568 Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂	Jan 24, 11, 12:40 #2
Carp isn't an edible fish. To pretend otherwise is cruel to humans.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57 Posts: 5,474 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Jan 24, 11, 12:45 #3
britpol1: I am anti cruelty when it is not needed. I expect flack here but I am ready for that. Whats your take on buying live lobsters and plunging them head first into boiling water. I always had an issue with that personally.

britpol1Threads: 1 Posts: 2 Joined: Jan 24, 11 ♂	Jan 24, 11, 12:56 #4
Another form of cruelty too. But then we are at the top of the in the context of intelligence. I think not. Britpol1

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Jan 24, 11, 12:58 #5
Are you a vegan by any chance?

VarsovianThreads: 91 Posts: 568 Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂	Jan 24, 11, 13:07 #6
I would prefer lobster to carp.

BozThreads: - Posts: 35 Joined: Jan 18, 11 ♂	Jan 24, 11, 13:17 #7
Contacting someone/body in Brussels might prove to be more effective than this place...I've seen a van with RSPCA on it in Mokotow-perhaps they'd be better placed to advise you?

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Jan 24, 11, 15:24 #8
''Support wanted to stop the sale of live carp in Poland'' I thought there was already a law in place. do the usual: start a facebook page... go for a million signatures... and watch as nothing gets done.

VarsovianThreads: 91 Posts: 568 Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂	Jan 24, 11, 15:51 #9
I'd ban the sale of dead carp too.

paulinskaThreads: 6 Posts: 344 Joined: May 19, 10 ♂	Jan 24, 11, 16:03 #10
My missus thinks this is the best thread ever created on here........ you really don't want to see the look i gave her.....disappointed describes a tenth of how i feel now

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Edited by: enkidu Jan 24, 11, 16:07 #11

At first sight - its a noble cause. You want to stop the carp suffering.

But I can see right through your sweet propaganda.

You are a carp hater! You want to kill them all! You want them dead.
This is sick.
I don't know - maybe some carp did something wrong to you when you was a child?
Maybe some carp female hurts your feeling a lot? I don't know. And I don't care.

Whatever IS your reason - there shall be no excuse for the Carp Extermination Movement!
You sicko.

LONG LIVE CARP!

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 24, 11, 17:25 #12
britpol1: I know this is a very touchy subject but it one that breaches cruelty laws and I want to help stop it. Which law does it breach? I wasn't aware that the sale of live carp was illegal.

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Edited by: Moderator Jan 24, 11, 17:38 #13

In many western countries lobsters and other fish are kept in small tanks in grocery stores (especially chinese neighbourhoods)!! It's not the ideal arrangement, i'll admit that, but it could be much worse.

Why don't you protest the way animals are slaughtered/tortured before they are turned into packaged meat?

Here's just one of the thousands of videos available online:

* graphic video * Do not watch if you are sensitive.

edit:

Ah what the heck, here is another one for you:

Livestock beat by farmers, bulls castrated alive, poked & stabbed for fun, electrocuted, etc... animals clearly in excruciating pain as they moan and groan... it's all there, start watching.

I'm all for ending animal cruelty (i like animals) but attacking the sale of life fish in Poland is ridiculous. The fish are not tortured to death like the animals in the above video.

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Edited by: Moderator Jan 24, 11, 17:47 #14

BBman:

I'm all for ending animal cruelty (i like animals) but attacking the sale of life fish in Poland is ridiculous. The fish are not tortured to death like the animals in the above video.

So you're saying that it's alright to sell live carp in Poland because some other countries do some worse things?

Not very clever...

By the same logic, presumably you think it's OK for someone to kill 35 people at Moscow airport because thousands have been killed in other attacks elsewhere.

BBmanThreads: - Posts: 459 Joined: Jan 4, 11 ♂	Edited by: Moderator Jan 24, 11, 17:57 #15
jonni: So you're saying that it's alright to sell live carp in Poland because some other countries do some worse things? What i said was that is that it is ridiculous to protest the sale of live carp whilst ignoring acts of animal cruelty as portrayed in the above videos i posted. I've never even heard of the humane society declaring the sale of live fish as being an act of animal cruelty.

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Jan 24, 11, 18:01 #16

BBman:

What i said was that is that it is ridiculous to protest the sale of live carp whilst ignoring acts of animal cruelty as portrayed in the above videos i posted

Ridiculous? This forum is about Poland. Live carp are sold (and appallingly mistreated) in Poland and neighbouring countries. So 'ignoring' bullfights in Spain, dog skinning in China or pig sticking wherever they do that is entirely appropriate.

And buying a live fish, sticking it in a carrier bag then either beating it to death or dropping it in a bath that's cleaned daily with Cif etc is something that should be stopped now.

BBmanThreads: - Posts: 459 Joined: Jan 4, 11 ♂	Jan 24, 11, 18:09 #17
jonni: This forum is about Poland. Animal cruelty as portrayed in those videos doesn't happen in Poland?

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Jan 24, 11, 18:11 #18
BBman: Animal cruelty as portrayed in those videos doesn't happen in Poland? Who knows? Can we stop all animal cruelty? Or just tackle the issue of live carp.

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Edited by: delphiandomine Jan 25, 11, 00:14 #19

jonni:

Who knows? Can we stop all animal cruelty? Or just tackle the issue of live carp.

To be honest, in terms of "greater evils", there are much worse things happening in Poland than the carp issue. Most people don't really regard fish as being "alive" - but they certainly regard dogs tied up and left in the forest as alive.

Still wondering about this law that prohibits the sale of live carp, though.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Jan 25, 11, 00:17 #20
delphiandomine: Still wondering about this law that prohibits the sale of live carp, though. i understood the carp had to be killed out of sight at the point of sale. if it came from a tank that is.

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Jan 25, 11, 00:19 #21

delphiandomine:

Still wondering about this law that prohibits the sale of live carp, though.

Probably some EU-rule.

On a side note: I'd like to find an EU-rule about the "transportation of humans on trains". When you transport animals, they need to have water, food and some space. Looking at how humans were transported on trains a couple of weeks ago in Poland (even how they had to board the trains sometimes), one wonders if there are ANY laws applicable.

But maybe that's something for another thread.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 25, 11, 00:21 #22
Stu: Looking at how humans were transported on trains a couple of weeks ago in Poland (even how they had to board the trains sometimes), one wonders if there are ANY laws applicable. I think it's the special "make conditions hellish until people admit that giving huge discounts to a wide section of society is unsustainable" rule ;)

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Jan 25, 11, 00:32 #23
BBman: bulls castrated alive You wouldn't do that if they were dead would you? It's only a fish and a pretty rotten tasting one too. Who gives a carp!

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Jan 25, 11, 01:06 #24

Instead of outlawing it, why not just get better aquariums to put them in? They are fish after all. Unfortunately, low on the food chain and bound to be eaten. People catch fish from streams with hooks and carry them home, sometimes in a cooler, other times with other fish.
Honestly, it doesn't look like fun, but these are fish that are going to be eaten by carnivores or omnivores, whichever you think descibes humanity best. Any animal that is going to be eaten by another animal is not going to have the funnest time.

Chicago PollockThreads: 10 Posts: 638 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Jan 25, 11, 06:18 #25
Ridiculous. If it's cruel to eat carp, it's cruel to eat vegetables. Afterall, plants are living organisms too.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jan 25, 11, 06:22 #26
Wroclaw: do the usual: start a facebook page... go for a million signatures... and watch as nothing gets done. xactly. lol

irish1Threads: - Posts: 8 Joined: Jan 23, 11 ♀	Jan 30, 11, 01:25 #27
Varsovian: Carp isn't an edible fish. To pretend otherwise is cruel to humans LOL

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Jan 30, 11, 05:19 #28

britpol1:

I should point out that I am English but I have lived in Poland 13 years. I am not anti Polish tradition. I am anti cruelty when it is not needed

The reason they sell live carp is that carp is one of the shittiest fish out there. When you buy it live you're expected to keep it alive for a couple of days, swimming in some water but not feeding it so it shits out all the mud and "stuff" before you kill it and prep it for food.

You might conceivably create carp resorts and vacation centers where carp would be starved in more humane ways, such as bigger pools, but starving is inhumane in itself too. So no matter how you slice it (no pun intended) eating formerly alive creatures is pretty cruel. If you decide not to starve carp before consumption then you'd be advocating what Varsovian suggested - cruelty towards humans. You don't people to eat mud, do you?

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	Jan 30, 11, 05:34 #29
This ridiculous: Why would anyone want to ban the sale of fresh fish?

Pinching PeteThreads: 1 Posts: 1,111 Joined: Feb 23, 08 ♂	Jan 30, 11, 07:18 #30
Chicago Pollock: If it's cruel to eat carp, it's cruel to eat vegetables ???.. It's cruel to be alive apparently.

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