What is the aim of PF ? What should be the limit in freedom of speech ?

MEMBER ♂

Jan 16, 10, 11:49 #1

This question came to my mind after a regular polluting of a help thread by well-known trolls.

I think the aim of PF is to inform people more about Poland, Polish Culture and history, Who has Polish roots, Who is intended to go there (for vacation or permanently), Who is living there and give them a chance to get answers for their problems about Poland or Polish People. (Better explanation may come from Admin but I guess my explanation is more or less ok).

But very good, interesting and frank questions or threads are very often interrupted and polluted by people who has biased opinions about Poland and Polish People (I don't think it is necessary to give any example).

In my opinion it has a negative effect and it fades the real purpose of the forum. There are many one time visitors as well as regular posters who are searching some information in the internet (This is How I find PF) and this pollution have bad effects for these people I believe.

So finally.

What do you think limits of freedom of speech should be if you consider the aim of PF ?
(I searched FAQ and Feedback section a little bit but I could not find anything exactly match with my question).

♂

Edited by: SeanBM Jan 16, 10, 11:51 #2

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mephias:

What do you think limits of freedom of speech should be if you consider the aim of PF ?

Why can't banned people remained banned, Southerner is back using a new name.

As for freedom of speech, it is not so easy, people are entitled to their opinions but even in natural law this has limits.

mephiasThreads: 15 Posts: 812 Joined: Nov 14, 08 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: mephias Jan 16, 10, 11:54 #3
SeanBM: SeanBM Thanks I search in the top of the page but not at the bottom. But anyway I guess my question still makes sense. SeanBM: Why can't banned people remained banned, Southerner is back using a new name. Good point but It can be technically difficult if banned people has some basic knowledge about internet technology.

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Jan 16, 10, 12:01 #4

SeanBM:

As for freedom of speech, it is not so easy, people are entitled to their opinions but even in natural law this has limits.

Sean many natively Polish posters are puzzled, take Harry and Sjam are two examples but there's a multitude of people who come here with a sole purpose of sh*tting all over subjects concerning Poland.

One problem is that mods are not Polish, these guys do a good job but they wont feel for Poles not being Polish themselves (apart from that the fact that "Polishforums" are governed by non-Poles is ridiculous).

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Jan 16, 10, 12:09 #5

Sokrates:

many natively Polish posters are puzzled, take Harry and Sjam are two examples but there's a multitude of people who come here with a sole purpose of sh*tting all over subjects concerning Poland.

I don't think it is just Polish people who are confused. People who come here to seek advice or find out about Poland, often get a barrage of insults purely because the abuser is bored.

Take that thread about the American and Polish woman going to have children together, PF abusers just make him out to be stupid and her out to be some kind of prostitute without know any of the facts and using false logic. They are just bored kids.

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Jan 16, 10, 12:24 #6

Sokrates:

Sean many natively Polish posters are puzzled, take Harry and Sjam are two examples but there's a multitude of people who come here with a sole purpose of sh*tting all over subjects concerning Poland.

It's not sh*tting all over subjects concerning Poland when you criticize certain aspects of Poland. This forum doesn't belong to the Polish Tourism Board, nor does it belong to any nationalist group. It's open discussion, that is the basis of fostering change.

Regarding freedom of speech, my home is a dictatorship. The mods can, and should, censor anything they feel to be off topic or a personal attack.

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Jan 16, 10, 12:28 #7

convex:

It's not sh*tting all over subjects concerning Poland when you criticize certain aspects of Poland.

It is when you come to every thread with negative views attempting to derail it, its called trolling.

convex:

This forum doesn't belong to the Polish Tourism Board, nor does it belong to any nationalist group.

Then why is it called Polishforum? As far as i'm concerned a forum not run by Poles should not be called Polish? Otherwise yes it belongs to Poles.

convex:

It's open discussion,

Open discussion to a point where everything Polish is dragged in mud?

convex:

The mods can, and should,

The mods should be replaced by Polish people and their numbers tripled.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: mephias Jan 16, 10, 12:29 #8

convex:

It's not sh*tting all over subjects concerning Poland when you criticize certain aspects of Poland.

You are right people should criticize but then what should be the limit in this then. There are people who is writing same ideas to all threads and their aim is not to criticize and it is only sh*tting since they are not bringing any idea which is new only same nonsense.

Sokrates:

It is when you come to every thread with negative views attempting to derail it, its called trolling.

Agree.

Sokrates:

The mods should be replaced by Polish people and their numbers tripled.

Not necessarily Polish, I am sure they have good sense about choosing people. But Freedom of Speech is tricky subject. If it is so strict then it can turn forum into something which is worse than now.

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Edited by: 1jola Jan 16, 10, 12:34 #9

The tolerance of anti-Polish threads is appauling.

I started a thread on the only concentration camp designed for children during WWII(Polish children) which is unknown to most Poles and never mind Polonia or foreigners, and it was shitcanned by a mod who never identifies himself or herself. Rather pitiful action if you care about things concerning Poland. On the other hand, threads hostile to Poland or Polish people are welcome and plentiful. I'm thinking of leaving this forum, as it is a waste of time to constantly battle dissatisfied foreigners who live in Poland, assorted trolls, and people who hate Poles for real.

Tolerated threads like "Are all Polish girls sluts" or similar bring this forum down to the gutter and I noticed less and less decent topics or discussions here. Perhaps admin and the mods can reflect where this forum is going. Look at the latest discussions and to me it is becoming a teenybop 'How to pick up chicks' place having little to do with anything Polish, its culture, or history.

One comment about moderating. I don't mind when a mod removes a post, mine or someone else', but at least post who did it and why. This task is not that time consuming if normal people post here. If you have to remove too many of a particular poster's posts, warn them, then ban them. This procedure is followed on most fora and it works.

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Edited by: Sokrates Jan 16, 10, 12:38 #10

mephias:

Not necessarily Polish, I am sure they have good sense about choosing people. But Freedom of Speech is tricky subject. If it is so strict then it can turn forum into something which is worse than now.

Yes neccesarily, they're all sensibile people but they're Not Polish, they never react when something important to Poles is tarnished, i'm not for censorship, if you dont like something about Poland by all means say so but dragging the holiest or most most important things for us Poles through mud is disgusting.

A Polish person would react instantly, people like PolskaDoll or Wrocław (but the rest of them too i imagine) are not Polish and quite openly dont give a sh*t, all this collides quite seriously with the name of the site "Polishforums".

Run by non-Poles, populated mostly by non-Poles and largely tolerant of openly anti-Polish behavior, hardly Polish are they?

MEMBER ♂

Jan 16, 10, 12:49 #11

Sokrates:

Yes neccesarily, they're all sensibile people but they're Not Polish, they never react when something important to Poles is tarnished, i'm not for censorship,

Maybe you are right.

I am not Polish and moved here 7 months ago I am living in Poland and working with Polish People. And find PF before coming here while I was searching for information about Poland.

It really gave me a bad impression. Many threads here reflect Poland like a open air brothel or a place which with people who don't has any logic at all.

I had a deep breath after I came here and see that is all non-sense.

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Edited by: sledz Jan 16, 10, 13:37 #12

Sokrates:

but they're Not Polish,

Thats the problem right here!!!!

You Sir, are an Elitist! Have you ever even bothered to read the PF guidelines, its not all that difficult to understand, is it?

If you dont like it go to another Polish forum that just speaks Polish for all the idiots like you

Youre just bitter because everybody in Poland has or is planning on aborting that country for a new a better world...

That vacuum will be filled by Muslims...

Meanwhile Ill be hanging out with ur women in the USA,,how do you like them Apples SOKRATES>>>LOL

MEMBER ♂

Jan 16, 10, 13:55 #13

Sokrates:

take Harry

Im afraid Harry is correct most of the time.

Sokrates:

As far as i'm concerned a forum not run by Poles should not be called Polish? Otherwise yes it belongs to Poles.

Thats stupid, if this Forum was ran and opertaded by Poles people who travelled here using it as their source would have one hell of an education when they crossed the border. As the sites header says "the good and the bad".

Every pole is not going to like my next thread "Bribes saving Lives", but its the truth and im going to publish it.

♂ [Suspended]

Edited by: Sokrates Jan 16, 10, 14:01 #14

Wroclaw Boy:

Im afraid Harry is correct most of the time.

In insulting everything Polish?

Wroclaw Boy:

Thats stupid, if this Forum was ran and opertaded by Poles people who travelled here using it as their source would have one hell of an education when they crossed the border. As the sites header says "the good and the bad".

Like i said the good and the bad, but you ignore the many insults directed at all things Polish, so why not rename the boards "Forums about Poland".

Mods aint Polish, boards aint Polish, the name is helluva confusing.

Also Wrocław you dont see a difference between you bashing bribery and Harry coming up with all sorts of mudslinging? Yet another reason why you and Polska ought to get a boot, sadly its not up to me and starting a petition wouldnt do much good since Poles are a minority here.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Jan 16, 10, 14:02 #15

I was going to start a similar thread myself. The amount of bullsh*it like:
"Polish girls are easy", "Why do you hate Poland?", "Poles are Jew killers",
"Are all Poles dirty, uneducated bores with no manners", "I'm a Pakistani,
Nigerian/Hindu sleeping with Polish girl - can I get a passport?", "Are Slavs
complete economic ignorants unable to live without Germanic supervison"
etc. etc. is perfectly annoying.

This forum would be so much better if it got more moderation by Polish people
or at least people living in Poland and identifying themselves with Polishness
(how many of the mods are Poles living in Poland by the way?)

There should also be rules against resurrecting 2 year old anti-Polish threads
just to add some more insults to them (there was such case recently) - all thread
necromancers should be banned.

I'm with Mephias, 1jola and Sokrates on this one - this forum often gives Poland
and Poles a very poor image because of the insufficient moderation (I'm not saying
it's bad - there's just too few mods and although they are trying to do their best,
they simply, very often, lack Polish sensibility).

MEMBER ♂

Jan 16, 10, 14:08 #16

Sokrates:

In insulting everything Polish?

Harry serves the aim of this forum. Many times when I ask something about life in Poland most sensible answers coming from him.

And even if he criticise something he is not making it in pollution level. He just clearly states his opinions. Even they are negative I think he balance them well.

Sokrates:

Like i said the good and the bad, but you ignore the many insults directed at all things Polish,

What is the border between criticising and insulting ?
For me more annoying is people who writes same silly opinions to all threads either relevant or not.

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Jan 16, 10, 14:11 #17

mephias:

What is the border between criticising and insulting ?

Oh its quite clear cut on these boards, take Wrocław who's branding bribery against lets say Sjam who creates topics meant to show Poles in a bad light all the time.

Also if someone comes here and critisizes Poland on every field in every topic he participates in regardless of said topic he needs to be booted, its trolling and its unacceptable everywhere.

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Edited by: jonni Jan 16, 10, 14:13 #18

Torq:

I was going to start a similar thread myself. The amount of bullsh*it like:
"Polish girls are easy", "Why do you hate Poland?", "Poles are Jew killers",
"Are all Poles dirty, uneducated bores with no manners", "I'm a Pakistani,
Nigerian/Hindu sleeping with Polish girl - can I get a passport?", "Are Slavs
complete economic ignorants unable to live without Germanic supervison"
etc. etc. is perfectly annoying.

All of these threads, plus the "Poland is perfect", "immigration is evil", "czarnuchy go home", "Poles are taking our jobs", "All Poles are angels", "vote BNP", "Poles are better that x, y or z" all look bad.

The worst thing here though, is the foul posts from brutal butcher and southern, and the nutty conspiracy ravings of joepilsudski etc.

I know a few people who read this forum regularly, who could contribute and debate intelligently but don't and won't post because of the politically extreme nonsense and the slanging matches between 19 year-olds.

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Jan 16, 10, 14:13 #19

I think the problem is the bored kids who know nothing about Poland and contribute even less.
BrutalButcher, king polkakamon and other trolls throw practically every thread they post in, off topic. They are continuously insulting, spam and if they are capable of debating or discussing issues, they hide it very well.

Harry is a very informative member of this forum and only sometimes goes off his head but we are all guilty of that.

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Edited by: jonni Jan 16, 10, 14:19 #20

Sokrates:

Tell me its not ridiculous, a Polish forum governed by foreigners.

Quite sensible really. Ethnic Poles are very very good at promoting their history and values - different points of view don't detract from that - maybe they contribute to a better understanding.

And much of this forum is about life in Poland. In English. Where to buy Persian food in Warsaw, How to meet expats, where to buy halal food, how to get a travelcard without a PESEL, etc.

Poles (whether in PL, or Americans/Aussies etc who identify as Polish) don't have ownership of that.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: mephias Jan 16, 10, 14:21 #21

Sokrates:

Actually thats not the point Jonni, the point is that its the Polish forums and they're being moderated by people who dont give a sh*t about protecting the dignity of Poland and Polish people to the outside read because they themselves are not Polish.

It wasn't my point but if it is a way to keep the PF in line then it can be discussed. But this website owned by someone and he can manage it anyway he/she likes.

Another idea, maybe this kind of trolling is what forum owner wants since popularity of forum is risen because of it. But since there is no big commercial gain. I don't think this is the point.

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Edited by: Sokrates Jan 16, 10, 14:23 #22

jonni:

Ethnic Poles are very very good at promoting their history and values

Christ i need glasses, i'm sorry for my short fuse Jonni.

Current moderation promotes nothing, Wroclaw, Polska and the lot allow Poland bashing, a blind monkey could do more promotion then that.

jonni:

And much of this forum is about life in Poland. In English. Poles (whether in PL, or Americans/Aussies etc who identify as Polish) don't have ownership of that.

Ah so its not a Polish forum but a forum about life in Poland! Why is it named Polish forum then?

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Jan 16, 10, 14:24 #23

Torq:

I was going to start a similar thread myself. The amount of bullsh*it like:
"Polish girls are easy", "Why do you hate Poland?", "Poles are Jew killers",
"Are all Poles dirty, uneducated bores with no manners", "I'm a Pakistani,
Nigerian/Hindu sleeping with Polish girl - can I get a passport?", "Are Slavs
complete economic ignorants unable to live without Germanic supervison"
etc. etc. is perfectly annoying.

Absolutely

But aside from the blatantly obvious nonsense antipolish threads, I think that criticism should play a big part in the forums. It's criticism from expats living in Poland, most often by choice. It's ok to b*tch about things in your surroundings, and even offer up some solutions. Why is that a bad thing? All the expats here are obviously still here for some reason...and they're probably the first people to defend Poland when abroad.

Sokrates:

Actually thats not the point Jonni, the point is that its the Polish forums and they're being moderated by people who dont give a sh*t about protecting the dignity of Poland and Polish people to the outside read because they themselves are not Polish.

I agree as far as the antipolish threads are concerned. As long as it doesn't become a situation where Poland is painted as some sort of magical problem free wonderland.

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Jan 16, 10, 14:27 #24

Sokrates:

Are you stupid? Because your comment was stupid. In fact we're so bad at promoting our values that Poland went from unrecognizable to one of the serious European players in a decade? Good job captain bias, got any more englightened comments?

This doesn't make sense. Maybe read the original post again.

Sokrates:

Ah so its not a Polish forum but a forum about life in Poland!

You think the two are mutually exclusive?

Sokrates:

Why is it named Polish forum then?

I'm not an ethnic Pole, but I'm sat here in my Polish living room, with Polish friends in my kitchen, writing on a Polish computer, and in ten minutes I'm heading out into the Polish winter to buy some Polish cigarettes at the Polish shop.

mephiasThreads: 15 Posts: 812 Joined: Nov 14, 08 MEMBER ♂	Jan 16, 10, 14:27 #25
convex: Absolutely Very good points it is going so far better than my expectations. Criticising is necessary if there is something really bad.

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Edited by: Sokrates Jan 16, 10, 14:32 #26

jonni:

I'm not an ethnic Pole, but I'm sat here in my Polish living room, with Polish friends in my kitchen, writing on a Polish computer, and in ten minutes I'm heading out into the Polish winter to buy some Polish cigarettes at the Polish shop.

And all the power to you Jonni but you're not Polish, if someone takes a dump on various Polish things such as traditions, customs etc you wont feel it as a slap to your face, i will, so will other Poles because even if Poland is temporarily or otherwise your home you're still a foreigner and we're Poles.

If its a Polish forum it requires awareness that only Poles have otherwise we get what we got now, a largely insulting, trolling bunch that the mods dont see anything wrong about, its not their country that gets shat on so why would they care? That alone should get them booted and replaced with Polish people.

And no Torq i come here quite often to vent so even as an off hand proposal i suck however i completely agree with Sean though, he displayed the level of interest in Polish culture that even as a foreigner gives him quite a Polish sensitivity that current Mods just dont have.

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Edited by: jonni Jan 16, 10, 14:42 #27

Sokrates:

if someone takes a dump on various Polish things such as traditions, customs etc you wont feel it as a slap to your face,

But I might still be offended and take issue with it if it's nonsense.

Sokrates:

it requires awareness that only Poles have

Agreed. But other points of view don't automatically detract from that.

Sokrates:

its not their country that gets shat on so why would they care?

They probably care about the place they live in. Even if they're not Poles, their spouses and children may well be.

Sokrates:

takes a dump on various Polish things such as traditions, customs etc

There's a phenomenon I've heard called by a (twenty years here, Polish husband and kids) expat "Poland fatigue". I don't think it's Poland specific, but some people, especially trolls/drive-by posters etc seem to have it.

Crow:

you know what would i do as a moderator? i would create especial privilege for members of forum. It would be section under the name- SERBIAN SOURCES and EVERY DAY NEWS

And this should stop. It looks silly. All the Obama stuff too.

♂ [Suspended]

Edited by: Harry Jan 16, 10, 14:42 #28

Sokrates:

Ah so its not a Polish forum but a forum about life in Poland! Why is it named Polish forum then?

Why not try reading the header of the Everyday life forum? It says "Everyday Life Polish citizens and visitors share their views on living in Poland. Make your life easier in Poland!"
What exactly are you whining about now?

Sokrates:

apart from that the fact that "Polishforums" are governed by non-Poles is ridiculous

You are very very welcome to register www.polskaforums.pl and set up a message board there. Goodbye.

1jola:

I started a thread on the only concentration camp designed for children during WWII(Polish children) which is unknown to most Poles and never mind Polonia or foreigners, and it was shitcanned by a mod who never identifies himself or herself.

That did suck quite a bit. I'll be heading back down to Zamosc in spring to do a bit more research about a few things, shall we open another thread about those camps?

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Jan 16, 10, 14:57 #29
Harry: Stating those facts is not anti-Polish: it is simply truthful and realistic. Yes. However, stating them in umpteen threads or even starting new threads just to state those obvious facts is nothing short of trolling and is giving Poland and Poles an untruthful and unrealistic image.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 16, 10, 15:02 #30
Torq: However, stating them in umpteen threads or even starting new threads just to state those obvious facts is nothing short of trolling and is giving Poland and Poles an untruthful and unrealistic image. I agree completely. Would you agree that Poles denying the facts I mentioned gives them an untruthful and unrealistic image?

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