Comment and an open question to the Moderators...

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Edited by: skysoulmate Jan 20, 10, 01:27 #1

From a different thread:

What do you think limits of freedom of speech should be if you consider the aim of PF ?"

I wish the way PF is moderated was somewhat different - or more logical and transparent.

I'm a member of several forums, most of them are aviation related but others are in the field of charities, politics, etc. All those forums are moderated but none in the PF's unique "stealthy" way.

Normally if a moderator deletes a passage he/she identifies him/herself as a moderator and gives a reason for the infraction.

Here however it's all, or most of it, done incognito. One minute a reply is there - the next minute it's gone. No explanation, no one identifies him/herself as the moderator. It's just gone!

I find it very ironic that a Polish forum is being moderated in such a ZOMOish or STASIesque way.

Also, often the moderation doesn't make any sense.

Case in point - In the Haiti thread I replied to a Turkish man whose communist leanings are quite obnoxious. I made it clear in my reply that he's an ardent socialist/communist and that nothing will ever change his mind.

I also replied to a person who enquired why helping the Haitians was so important to me?

Well, the PF censors kept my rebuttal of the Turkish communist alone while the reply on why I like to help Haitians was deleted?

Hmmm. Again, no explanation, no one identifying him/herself as a moderator...

I posted a similar comment regarding the moderation on PF before and it was very promptly deleted so I'd imagine the same will happen now...

But if not - to all moderators - is there a way your admitedly important job could be improved? Don't you think you should identify yourself each time you delete a person's post? How about giving a reason for your actions?

Thank you.

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Edited by: skysoulmate Jan 20, 10, 07:14 #2

...and no moderator has bothered to give me a real answer in my "comment and an open question to the moderators".

The answer I got makes no sense whatsoever, in fact it's as illogical as it gets. A reply to someone asking why helping the Haitian people is important to me has been mysteriously deleted from the Haitian thread (or supposedly moved to a different thread but I can't find it).

"...It's called Random Chat and is a long time feature on PF. New members are encouraged to familiarize themselves more with the site before commenting on the site..."

This makes no sense as the post deleted/moved was a reply to someone on the Haitian thread ABOUT the Haitian aid. Why would it be moved to the Random thread??? (I still can't find it by the way - too many pages and messages to scroll through.

To top it off, I'm now not allowed to reply to the thread I created?!

I guess I am allowed to post? - for the first 6 hours after creating this thread I'd get a message that I'd been blocked from replying to this thread. Why? ...for asking a simple question?

The premise of my post is that in my view the moderators should be totally unbiased and never delete a post simply because they might disagree with a message. They should also identify themselves and explain why an action had been taken? That would cause more civility here which would benefit all of us, including the moderators.

No replies from the "contact us" link, amazing...

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Edited by: 1jola Jan 20, 10, 08:42 #3

skysoulmate:

The answer I got makes no sense whatsoever, in fact it's as illogical as it gets.

I agree. Moderator X's reply amounts to who gives a hoot what you think. I've got the red pen and I'm gonna scribble on any thread I like anonymmously. I'm shocked they even answered you; they avoid my querries altoghether. Moderator Wroclaw was sanitizing the other thread we had running, so I'm going to peek there to see what's left of it and if he left a red note. But now you know where the trash can is.

A poster Kapusta or Burak should stop trolling Keith and go back to the kiddie sections. Every post on this on this thread was personal.

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Edited by: jonni Jan 20, 10, 08:55 #4

1jola:

Kapusta or Burak should stop trolling Keith

The difference is that on the whole Kapusta makes interesting, sensible and informative posts, but Kith rarely does - some of her posts are ok, albeit oneliners, but most of what she writes is a type of flaming. Do a search and you'll see.

The moderators here (who don't get paid and who moderate this site out of the goodness of their hearts) will never be able to please all of the people all of the time, but on the whole they do a great job. Kith over the last couple of days is trying deliberately to rattle them.

Three threads lately criticising the way this site is run. I don't see any threads thanking those whose hard work and good ideas set it up and run it.

mephiasThreads: 15 Posts: 811 Joined: Nov 14, 08 MEMBER ♂	Jan 20, 10, 08:59 #5
jonni: but on the whole they do a great job. I was in same idea till yesterday. But I am much more in doubt now. They are selective in bad and negative way.

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Edited by: skysoulmate Jan 20, 10, 09:03 #6

jonni:

The moderators here (who don't get paid and who moderate this site out of the goodness of their hearts) will never be able to please all of the people all of the time, but on the whole they do a great job. Kith over the last couple of days is trying deliberately to rattle them.

I agree Jonni, I'm a moderator at few other message boards and don't get paid for it either. I'm sure the mods are doing a great job but it's hard to tell as it's mostly done in the stealth mode here - "delete and forget it ever happened."

I think members of this forum deserve a little more respect, and vice versa of course.

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Jan 20, 10, 09:05 #7

jonni:

The difference is that on the whole Kapusta makes interesting, sensible and informative posts, but Kith rarely does - some of her posts are ok, albeit oneliners, but most of what she writes is a type of flaming. Do a search and you'll see.

I'm not going to search her posts. On this thread she trolled Keith only.

jonni:

The moderators here (who don't get paid and who moderate this site out of the goodness of their hearts) will never be able to please all of the people all of the time, but on the whole they do a great job.

It is normal for mods to reply to queries. It is normal for mods to identify themselves. It is normal for mods to justify their actions. It is not normal for mods to disappear posts or threads. This is understood by everyone but those who got their first computer last Christmas or are used to People's Republics.

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Jan 20, 10, 09:31 #8

Forgetting that this thread has been hijacked somewhat. I tend to agree that the moderation of this board "in general" is what I would personally consider poor. I have been a mod/admin on a number of different sites and just a frequenter of others and the moderation here is the least clear of any I have seen to date.

It is just a personal opinion and I have been wrong about many things in life, but it is (to me) a negative on this forum in general. (no direct disrespect is meant to any individual mod, though I know it does not read that way).

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Edited by: Kapusta Jan 20, 10, 11:53 #9

Jola the posters name is "kith" and she is female, it's not Keith which is a male name. It's not trolling to discuss something with someone on a forum. I also never said she should go back to the kiddie section she should stop repeating herself over and over though for what will now be the 4 th day. This is a board about Poland but she's not interested in that, just in coming here and causing trouble. Where are the posts about Poland? A
couple about food yes and a couple that say ROFLMFAO and about thirty thousand complaining about things she wouldn't have if they had not been pointed out in the other thread. Everyone who says they are mods on other sites has come across someone like her at some point. Flamers. Now about Poland...

Oh and kith that post of harrys, please just report it so we don't have another day of hysterics.

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Jan 20, 10, 12:48 #10
Still hoping for a legit reply from a moderator...

♂ [Moderator]

Jan 20, 10, 21:07 #11

skysoulmate:

Still hoping for a legit reply from a moderator...

skysoulmate:

How about giving a reason for your actions

An example of modding is this thread. 46 posts were removed for being off topic.

When members or guests start a thread they would be right to expect answers related to the topic.

When a member or guest is trolling, being racist etc should one really think it necessary to explain why their post has been moved.

A link to the forum rules can be found at the foot of each page. After having read the rules one should also be aware that they will be enforced.

However, it is often the case that with small infractions a warning may be given. The poster is then given time to amend either his/her behaviour or post.

Knowing who moderated a particular post is not likely to change anything... We are all, mods, members and guests, subject to the same rules.

hope this helps.

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Jan 20, 10, 22:42 #12

Wroclaw:

An example of modding is this thread. 46 posts were removed for being off topic.

not always the case, I'm not particularly fussy when my post are moved and delayed but sometimes is mysterious will of the moderator as my previous post on this thread which wasn't off topic, racist, abusive or trolling, some mods didn't like it and whoosh- make it disappeared because he/she can!
I understand is a hard job but hey you volunteered to do it and I'm not having a go at you but trying to help you improve this forum.
You can ignore it because you CAN!

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Jan 20, 10, 23:48 #13

Wroclaw - I appreciate the reply.

At a different forum, if a moderator posts a message he/she will make a note "I'm making this post NOT as a member but as I moderator. Then he/she will issue a statement, warning, etc.

For example - "please stop personal attacks or the thread will be closed." I still believe some posts here are deleted/closed because the mod might not like the message. I've reviewed the rules and am clueless as to why my previously described post has disappeared while one admittedly not really on topic was left alone.

You mentioned 46 posts were deleted from this thread alone yet earlier another moderator -although in incognito mode only using red ink as an identyfying mark said that posts are never deleted but moved. So which is it?

Also, if we knew the exact reasoning to your actions maybe you wouldn't need to remove 46 posts from one thread alone? Right now it's all very top-heavy, think about it, the red ink messages remind me of highschool and corrections by the teacher made on our tests.

Again, your forum - your rules - but I believe we would all, including you mods, be better off with more transparancy, explanations to actions taken and more respect from the moderators.

Thanks for your reply.

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Jan 21, 10, 00:23 #14

skysoulmate:

You mentioned 46 posts were deleted from this thread alone yet earlier another moderator -although in incognito mode only using red ink as an identyfying mark said that posts are never deleted but moved. So which is it?

Wroclaw said the posts were removed not deleted. ;) Posts that are off-topic are removed to Random Chat and they remain there until Random Chat is deleted which is usually once a month. They are not deleted straight away so errors are usually rectified.

skysoulmate:

At a different forum, if a moderator posts a message he/she will make a note "I'm making this post NOT as a member but as I moderator. Then he/she will issue a statement, warning, etc.

I'm not aware of Moderators explaining themselves in such a way on other forum and I'm on a few. I'll check them out. I know one of them has silent moderators as well as non-silent and that was required after serious trouble on the boards. It works.

It's also worth noting that if you make a reply and part of it is about the thread and then part of it is completely off-topic or abusive it could be sent to RC or edited.

PD

WroclawThreads: 74 Posts: 7,272 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Jan 21, 10, 00:33 #15
Ironside: You can ignore it because you CAN! No, I tend to take things in.

CheeryThreads: 26 Posts: 206 Joined: Nov 17, 08 ♂	Edited by: Cheery Jan 21, 10, 00:41 #16
O'er half of every topic I ever posted is gone... I used to have over a thousand posts. The mods hate me :(

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Jan 21, 10, 08:10 #17
Silent moderation makes threads...people...and...for...decissions....PF. Besides...rude...themselves...chat...removal...Polish.

mephiasThreads: 15 Posts: 811 Joined: Nov 14, 08 MEMBER ♂	Jan 21, 10, 18:55 #18
skysoulmate: Case in point - In the Haiti thread I replied to a Turkish man whose communist leanings are quite obnoxious You are also victim of Nomad :) God save us.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 56 Posts: 5,264 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Jan 21, 10, 19:06 #19
skysoulmate: it's mostly done in the stealth mode here - "delete and forget it ever happened." Its not deleted it gets moved to random, youve been told this by the mods ive seen them write in red and address it to you.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Edited by: 1jola Jan 21, 10, 19:50 #20
If I rip out pages out of your book and throw them in the trash can, I haven't thrown them away, they are still there. The can is emptied every so often. I forgot to tell you, I will rip them out when you are not looking.

CheeryThreads: 26 Posts: 206 Joined: Nov 17, 08 ♂	Jan 21, 10, 23:26 #21
The mods here are a bunch of fascists, as I said before.

delphiandomineThreads: 40 Posts: 9,577 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂	Jan 21, 10, 23:29 #22
Cheery: The mods here are a bunch of fascists, as I said before. Know many fascists?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 21, 10, 23:30 #23
delphiandomine: Know many fascists? Maybe they could send the board Gestapo to Cheery for a little talk.....

delphiandomineThreads: 40 Posts: 9,577 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂	Jan 21, 10, 23:33 #24
Bratwurst Boy: Maybe they could send the board Gestapo to Cheery for a little talk..... What, about why invoking Godwin's Law instantly marks you out as being an idiot? ;)

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Edited by: skysoulmate Jan 21, 10, 23:54 #25

Wroclaw Boy:

Its not deleted it gets moved to random, youve been told this by the mods ive seen them write in red and address it to you.

Really? Would you care to show me where that message is in the "Ausies helping in Haiti" thread?

The only message I saw was for new members to read PF rules and it mentioned the Random Thread but it was illogical (see below) and I couldn't find my post there.

It was a reply to this question:

"...skysoulmate -I don't see why you're so jazzed about helping them.. they wouldn't help the US in a million years. They just think we're chumps when we do it..."

First of all, WHY would my reply be removed/deleted? It was about helping the Haitian people on the thread that was strictly about helping the Haitian people.

Second of all, IF it was moved where is it?

...and finally, if any post is "moved" why can't you provide us a link to the new location and the particular page? It'd take 0.01 seconds of your time to copy and paste the new location.

By the way, the brief message in red for new members to review the PF rules has now also been "deleted". I'm sorry, I'm sure it was "moved" to this mystical place no one seems to be able to find.

Wrocław (not boy but the moderator) - I appreciate your earlier reply but again from what I've seen so far - some moderators delete some posts simply because they don't like the message or the messenger. Yes, I said "delete" because if I can't find my post then it's been deleted - unless the moderator somehow 'resurrects' the post again.

The methods used here are unprofessional and deep inside I think you agree with me. A moderator should have the balls (or ovaries) to say "I'm the moderator and this is why I'm 'moving' your post to this location". Then provide a link to this new location - this is not too much to ask I believe, it shows courtesy but also respect to the PF members.

At a different forum a moderator even gives the forum member a chance to plead his/her case and if the member and often other forum members have a compelling argument the post will be reinstated. It shows respect for the forum members BUT it also creates respect for the moderators' job. Two-way-street communication is always helpful in a venue such as this...

The current "don't ask, don't tell, don't reply, pretend it never happened, hope they don't notice" situation would make Stasi proud and you know it.

It's funny there's a thread asking if Poles are rude? The moderators's unpredictable, sometimes seemingly immune from any insight and biased actions seem to enforce that view.

Please improve your 'code of conduct' - there's no shame in improving a good product into an excellent forum.

Sincerely,

skysoulmate

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jan 21, 10, 23:59 #26
skysoulmate: t's funny there's a thread asking if Poles are rude? The moderators's unpredictable, sometimes seemingly immune from any insight and biased actions seem to enforce that view. for a second time moderators are not Polish! hey wake up!

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Jan 22, 10, 00:01 #27
skysoulmate: It's funny there's a thread asking if Poles are rude? Look at this forum. The overwhelming majority of nasty comments come from either Poles or Pol-Ams.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Jan 22, 10, 00:02 #28
Bratwurst Boy: Maybe they could send the board Gestapo to Cheery for a little talk..... Amt IV of PF. Send Polska Doll. He won't be Cheery for long.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 56 Posts: 5,264 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Jan 22, 10, 00:03 #29
skysoulmate: some moderators delete some posts simply because they don't like the message or the messenger. its moderated based on content. Intention and relavance mainly, if you go off topic theres a good chance it will be binned.

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09 ♂	Jan 22, 10, 00:04 #30
1jola: He won't be Cheery for long. Cheery?? Undoubtedly another BRITISH pillow biter.

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