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alexw68  Jan 25, 11, 18:21    #31
Admin:
if(visitors_2010>visitors_2009) then (posters_2010>posters_2009)

BullshitDetector::init();

Unless you mean visits === posts. In which case, say so.

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 Jan 25, 11, 18:27    #32
alexw68:
Unless you mean visits === posts. In which case, say so.

If in 2009 there were 100 people on a stadium and in 2010 there were 123 people in on the same stadium -- isn't it obvious there were more conversations between those people in 2010 vs 2009? It's possible to check it by the number of posts, but I don't care to check stats in detail; I just use common sense :
z_dariusThreads: 22
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 Jan 25, 11, 21:55    #33
Admin:
If in 2009 there were 100 people on a stadium and in 2010 there were 123 people in on the same stadium -- isn't it obvious there were more conversations between those people in 2010 vs 2009?

No, it's not obvious at all and common sense is not really a mathematical concept.

In July 2008 an average forum's member made 39.02 posts.
As of today an average member made 34.02 posts.

So your 123 people in the stadium clearly does not mean there were more conversations than among 100 people in 2009.

Each poster is a visitor, but not every visitor is a poster so your argument fails right there. Also, some members are no longer active so it takes a new poster with the same zeal for posting just to keep the status quo. That is posters that new members make at least the same number of posts as the former posters who are now inactive.

Hence, an increased number of visits does not automatically translate into an increased number of posts. In fact, the reverse seems to be true in the case of PF - it may have gained visitors but it lost the number of posts per visitor. If the rate of increase of visitors is not sufficient the increase may not be even enough to keep posts at the same level, let alone to increase it

Probabilities exist that you are right, but you offer no proof and you are known to throw in some pretty exotic lines of argumentation. My favorite was the color change of some sort that allegedly caused a noticeable increase in visits within hours. Or that getting rid of avatars would increase the sophistication of the conversations on this forum :)

Reminds me of folklore, whereby someone having succeeded in igniting two twigs while wearing a necklace made of tiger's claws assumes that the necklace made of tiger's claws are the necessary ingredient of starting up a fire.
BzibziohThreads: 6
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 Jan 25, 11, 23:15    #34
Admin:
In December 2010 there were 23% more visitors to the site than there were in December 2009.

You still don't have a clue, do you? It's not about numbers but about quality. We can fill this forum with thousand posts a day with translations alone but who would want to join such a boring site? Plus some posters are pure page fillers with nothing interesting to say. As I told you many times already: you are incompetent and it shows every time you try to justify your senseless decision. Still no avatars while majority wish it and letting mods abuse their power without any consequences is not something I feel like participating in much.
jonniThreads: 26
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 Jan 26, 11, 00:18    #35
Bzibzioh:
is not something I feel like participating in much.

Nobody's forcing you.
dtaylor5632Threads: 49
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 Jan 26, 11, 00:26    #36
Bzibzioh:
something I feel like participating in much.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out ;)
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 Jan 26, 11, 01:01    #37
z_darius:
No, it's not obvious at all and common sense is not really a mathematical concept.

The common sense is backed up by the hard math/stats information you obviously don't have access to.
z_darius:

In July 2008 an average forum's member made 39.02 posts.
As of today an average member made 34.02 posts.

It should be obvious since many topics have already been covered in the last years and most visitors can actually use the search function to find what they're looking for without starting a new discussion on the same topic. That only means the posted information, even old, is still valid and relevant.

Not to mention the fact that in the last couple of years no member was removed, even if he/she hasn't posted anything, like it was the case in 2008 or the previous years.

z_darius:

So your 123 people in the stadium clearly does not mean there were more conversations than among 100 people in 2009.

You clearly try to debate about something without getting the full picture and the full information as I described above.

z_darius:
Each poster is a visitor, but not every visitor is a poster so your argument fails right there.

How it fails? Did I write that each visitor actually posts something?

z_darius:
Also, some members are no longer active so it takes a new poster with the same zeal for posting just to keep the status quo. That is posters that new members make at least the same number of posts as the former posters who are now inactive.

On PolishForums both members AND guest can make posts. Your argument about the number of members is irrelevant because you apparently forgot guests can also make posts.

z_darius:

Hence, an increased number of visits does not automatically translate into an increased number of posts. In fact, the reverse seems to be true in the case of PF - it may have gained visitors but it lost the number of posts per visitor. If the rate of increase of visitors is not sufficient the increase may not be even enough to keep posts at the same level, let alone to increase it

See my note about the issues already covered by already existing topics.

z_darius:
but you offer no proof and you are known to throw in some pretty exotic lines of argumentation

You don't expect me to post full stats so that I could prove you wrong, do you. You have the right not to believe me, but your arguments and reasoning are still weak.

z_darius:
My favorite was the color change of some sort that allegedly caused a noticeable increase in visits within hours. Or that getting rid of avatars would increase the sophistication of the conversations on this forum :)

Obviously you are here, like a few other members, to try to prove how smart you are and how much better you would run the site. It's been going on for how many years now? Still, there's no evidence of your succeeding.

Bzibzioh:
You still don't have a clue, do you? It's not about numbers but about quality. We can fill this forum with thousand posts a day with translations alone but who would want to join such a boring site?

I don't care about numbers, but you tend to bring numbers ('We lost many members etc.') too often to ignore them. If the site is boring, why you are still here? You 'threatened' to leave how many times now? In 2012 you'll post a similar message, again. It only means the site is not as bad as you hoped it to be.

Bzibzioh:
Plus some posters are pure page fillers with nothing interesting to say.

Is it my or moderators fault? You should complain to the teachers and parents that some members they brought to the society are boring, stupid, or vulgar.

Bzibzioh:
As I told you many times already: you are incompetent and it shows every time you try to justify your senseless decision.

Thousands of more visitors a year may argue with your statement.

Bzibzioh:
Still no avatars while majority wish it

You cannot stand posters who are 'page-fillers,' but at the same time you cannot wait for avatars which are also page-fillers, at best?

Bzibzioh:
letting mods abuse their power without any consequences

Unlike you (which I strongly suspect), moderators aren't being paid from tax payers money; they are doing this job on voluntary basis.
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Edited by: delphiandomine  Jan 26, 11, 01:09    #38
Bzibzioh:
As I told you many times already: you are incompetent and it shows every time you try to justify your senseless decision.


So why don't you start your own forum? I mean, if the admin is incompetent, the mods are biased and this forum really sucks so badly - start your own instead of sniping from the sidelines. I really can't understand why anyone would want to stay on a forum that's really so bad.

Bzibzioh:
Still no avatars while majority wish it and letting mods abuse their power without any consequences is not something I feel like participating in much.


Then leave. We're not making you stay here - in fact, the majority probably feels that the place would be better without you.

Incidentally, it really doesn't matter what the majority wants. He who pays the bills decides - and if he doesn't want avatars, so be it.

If you, or anyone else doesn't like it - you can register a domain and buy some server space within 5 minutes.

Admin : out of interest, why not publish the statistics for us to see?
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 Jan 26, 11, 01:26    #39
delphiandomine:
Admin : out of interest, why not publish the statistics for us to see?

This is not the information that websites want to post publicly. The problem is 3 different stats programs show different results so even I don't know which one is correct (but I know the general trend).

Still, taking into account the conservative stats program there are currently about 10K unique visitors a day.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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 Jan 26, 11, 01:36    #40
Admin:
Still, taking into account the conservative stats program there are currently about 10K unique visitors a day.


Seems healthy enough to me - 10k unique visitors is certainly a decent number.

Still, I suppose these self-appointed forum experts will be setting up their own forum soon.
z_dariusThreads: 22
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 Jan 26, 11, 02:27    #41
Admin:
The common sense is backed up by the hard math/stats information you obviously don't have access to.
z_darius:

In July 2008 an average forum's member made 39.02 posts.
As of today an average member made 34.02 posts.
It should be obvious since many topics have already been covered in the last years and most visitors can actually use the search function to find what they're looking for without starting a new discussion on the same topic. That only means the posted information, even old, is still valid and relevant.

so you admit that the number of posts is not necessarily increased with the number of visits.
Bzibzi wrote about posts, you responded that the number of visits increased. That's your logic?

Admin:
On PolishForums both members AND guest can make posts. Your argument about the number of members is irrelevant because you apparently forgot guests can also make posts.

That only shows that members are actually posting less than they used to.

Admin:
You don't expect me to post full stats so that I could prove you wrong, do you. You have the right not to believe me, but your arguments and reasoning are still weak.

The only thing I have to believe is that you understand basic math. IF you do then data generated by your own post shows the decrease in the frequency of posts per member.

Admin:
Obviously you are here, like a few other members, to try to prove how smart you are and how much better you would run the site. It's been going on for how many years now? Still, there's no evidence of your succeeding.

To even try to show how smart one is by comparing themselves to your gibberish it would require a pride similar to that of an adult beating up a little kid and taking pride in the "power" required to achieve the task. Even this fragment of your post is... well... at around grade 3 at the most. How can there be evidence of MY success in running this site if YOU are the one who runs it?

Seems like not only logic and math are among your weaker points. Your English is definitely
in "good"company.
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 Jan 26, 11, 02:27    #42
delphiandomine:
10k unique visitors is certainly a decent number.

Based on the another stats program (also available in Cpanel) the number increases 70-80% ;).
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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 Jan 26, 11, 02:38    #43
z_darius:
How can there be evidence of MY success in running this site if YOU are the one who runs it?


Because, stupid, he's making the point that YOU have failed to do better. You know, you and your ilk keep pointing out how much better things could be - yet none of you have actually started a forum for yourself.

Tell you what - I'll stump up for the domain name and I'll provide the hosting - free of charge - and you can run it along with the other "omg mods are so bad" crowd. I'll even install the forum for you. If you can really do so much better - now is the time to prove it.
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 Jan 26, 11, 02:38    #44
z_darius:
so you admit that the number of posts is not necessarily increased with the number of visits.

Yes, and that makes perfect sense (most users know how to use the search box to find relevant post so that they don't have to discuss it over and over again). What's so strange about it..

z_darius:
Bzibzi wrote about posts, you responded that the number of visits increased. That's your logic?

I also know what she wrote in her other similar posts; that's why the context of my reply.

z_darius:
That only shows that members are actually posting less than they used to.

Because the new posters, again, know how to use the search feature. So it all works as indented.

z_darius:
IF you do then data generated by your own post shows the decrease in the frequency of posts per member.

You talk about posting frequency, I talk about something else.

z_darius:
How can there be evidence of MY success in running this site if YOU are the one who runs it?

Most of the times you disagree with how the site is run. That means you could do it better, no?

z_darius:

Seems like not only logic and math are among your weaker points. Your English is definitely
in "good"company.

You're beating a dead horse. I've been dealing with much more insults, so your posting I'm a stupid and illiterate fool won't cause any harm. And I won't ban you, either, because I know you have the right to feel that way and that's the purpose of PolishForums - to have all the opinion and diversity we can get to hopefully get a true picture of the reality. Members like you, who are intelligent, knowledgeable, and always try to prove their point, are one of the most valuable members here.
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 Jan 26, 11, 03:02    #45
Admin:
If the site is boring, why you are still here?

It still has "Polish" in the title, right? So unfortunately for you I'm still here and going to visit from time to time as I still care about Poland and what bunch of ignorants have to say about my country. You, on the other hand, with equal enthusiasm could be proud owner of Malawian Forum for all you care, as long as it would attract posters.
Admin:
You 'threatened' to leave how many times now?

What about zero? Sorry I'm not the drama queen you would like me to be.
Admin:
It only means the site is not as bad as you hoped it to be.

All I would like of this site is to represent Poland well and fair, plus some entertainment. For now the picture isn't pretty.
Admin:
Unlike you (which I strongly suspect),

You suspect that I'm being paid to post here? Seriously?? Well, you are more ridiculous than I originally thought than.
Admin:
moderators aren't being paid from tax payers money; they are doing this job on voluntary basis.

I don't care. If they have some unresolved ego issues it would be better to get professional help and not play big dick abusing position of power here.
dtaylor5632:
Don't let the door hit you on the way out ;)

... said the page filler #1.
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 Jan 26, 11, 03:07    #46
Admin:
Admin [Administrator]

That was actually a classy post and I have to say it is also touching.
Damn, I'm running out of kleenex.
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 Jan 26, 11, 03:14    #47
z_darius:
Damn, I'm running out of kleenex.

:)
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 Jan 26, 11, 03:46    #48
Bzibzioh:
as I still care about Poland and what bunch of ignorants have to say about my country

Poland changes; some changes are for better, some for worse. The point is - what better or worse is depends on each individual. A foreigner who comes to Poland to live or work there has the right to see Poland from his point of view; same applies to a native Pole for whom the problems of the foreigner are irrelevant or stupid. There's no common ground here.

Bzibzioh:
with equal enthusiasm could be proud owner of Malawian Forum for all you care, as long as it would attract posters.

I'm enthusiastic about the truth and to find the truth many different points of views and opinions are needed.

Bzibzioh:
All I would like of this site is to represent Poland well and fair, plus some entertainment. For now the picture isn't pretty.

Our goal is exactly the same. But I would remove the words 'well and fair' because they may indicate that some facts should be ignored, censored, or belittled. As I wrote many times before - a true, and diverse picture is needed for Poland to become the greatest country in the world. Polish people are smart and as long as they KNOW about the problems or perceptions of other people (whether native Poles or foreigners in Poland), they will make it right sooner or later. Without 'ignorant posts' that sometimes skew the picture, but also bring a new dimension to the problem, it would be impossible to determine the way to fix the problem or make progress.

Do you know how much various 'survey' companies PAY people to hear their 'ignorant stories?' A LOT. But companies that hire them know they will win long-term because they will be able to spot the points that would be hard or impossible to notice under the normal circumstances. If we removed 'ignorant' posts we would not progress because there's always something true in such posts.

PolishForums is a free survey platform for Poland's progress. And people in Poland can and do filter the information to their best benefits, for free. That's what smart nations do.
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 Jan 26, 11, 04:29    #49
Admin:
As I wrote many times before - a true, and diverse picture is needed for Poland to become the greatest country in the world.

How is Harry calling everybody a liar for the 300 times, or delphi using derogatory term 'Polacks' on a regular basis, or espana calling all Polish people result of the inbreeding, fit into that pretty picture exactly? Are you telling me it will attract more eyeballs somehow and help painting more balanced view of Poland?
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 Jan 26, 11, 04:44    #50
Bzibzioh:
How is Harry calling everybody a liar for the 300 times, or delphi using derogatory term 'Polacks' on a regular basis, or espana calling all Polish people result of the inbreeding, fit into that pretty picture exactly? Are you telling me it will attract more eyeballs somehow and help painting more balanced view of Poland?

Each forum has its trolls or 'resident fools.' But they are the part of the reality; I'm sure you've noticed such people in the offline world too (and you're probably not surprised to see/hear them any more).
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 Jan 26, 11, 09:57    #51
z_darius:
No, it's not obvious at all and common sense is not really a mathematical concept.

In July 2008 an average forum's member made 39.02 posts.
As of today an average member made 34.02 posts.


Guys all discussions on PF are run by about 30 old users. They produce 95% of threads/posts here. It's obvious for everyone who actually participate in discussions.
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Edited by: plk123  Jan 26, 11, 10:43    #52
delphiandomine:
Incidentally, ever seen real democracy on an internet forum, where the admin/moderators are elected?

yup, sure have

Olaf:
Wow! You can actually have your own posts?!?

only if the mods like your title

Admin:
In December 2010 there were 23% more visitors to the site than there were in December 2009.

that doesn't mean they were of good quality.

Bzibzioh:
Plus some posters are pure page fillers with nothing interesting to say.

u may want to glanace at the mirror
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 Jan 27, 11, 05:31    #53
plk123:
u may want to glanace at the mirror

And you may want to stop stalking me. Find yourself palancie some useful hobby. You'd impress me only if you said something interesting or funny for a change. Sending me vulgar PMs is not the way I assure you.


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