26.February 2008 - The day when Poland sold Serbia!

Serbs were victims of genocide and organized ethnical cleansing. Serbs didn`t commite genocide and organized ethnical cleansing on others. That`s how it is and my word is much worth then word of BBC or CNN... false informative media

Serbs never faild and we have moral right to speak about Slavic Union or Alliance

If you aren`t familiar with facts thats your problem, not mine. If you have your prejudices, don`t think that me- as a Serb have similar prejudices


Serbian inteligentsia would obviously need to redefine ideas in case with Slavis Union or Alliance having in mind that many governmants of Slavic countries batrayed Serbian and Slavic interests in general.

What i want to say is... who care for trecherous politicians and weak inteligentsia`s without alive Slavic spirituality

Slavs are one and same nation, violantly and falsely devided over religious lines- it`s clear to me. Is it clear to others here?!

Slavs should brake the chains of slavery and humilation!

Walk with dignity my Slavic kind...

Unfortunately Poland couldn't pay the political price for not recognizing Kosovo..... we all know that Serbia is partly responsible for what has happened, so lets not be so angry with Poland.

Crow, don't make out Serbs as innocent. The truth is that the KLA(linked to Al Queda) started a war for independence of Kosovo in the early 90's and Serbia responded in kind. Now I support Serbia because they did not start this war. However there response was taken to the extreme by killing every muslims that they think was part of the KLA. the truth is that the majority weren't and many innocent people died. Now Serbia should be punished for killing indiscrimanately however the KLA should not be rewarded in the process since they started the war.. the best option would have been if Serbia handed over all war criminals and maybe this would not have happened. however they didn't... so now this horrible thing has happened. Neither Serbia or Kosovo is innocent. What to do? IMO Serbia should have been punished with sanctions for not handing over war criminals and pay restitution to the surviving family members, however in the process be able to keep kosovo...

1. What would be a price if this happened in your opinion?

2. Why Slovakia can afford but Polish ass-lickers cannot?

Matthias do you have any idea how many are the muslims ''killed'' by Serbs?

Lesser,

1.The price would be that it could damage our relations with many countries in EU and the US. Im sorry I don't support Kosovo independence but relations with EU and US have more to offer then relations with Serbia. If Serbia handed over all war criminals like it was supposed to, this might not have escalated to such drastic measures.

2. Slovakia can afford it beccause they have no political power as it is. Great country, but to small to have much influence. Not many people care what Slovakia says or does.

If your going to say Spain next, For Spain not recognizing Kosovo, the EU and US will be much more understanding since they know Spain doesn't want to set a precedent for the ETA. However Poland has no seperatist movement.

As for Southern its seems like you do, so feel free to tell me? I like to hear your estimate....

You suggest that we should do everything what they say to not damage relations?



They could kiss our asses if we would not recognize them. We gained nothing, completely nothing. Serious countries are rewarded by something significant if made such decisions, nice words are for suckers. Nobody respect ass-lickers which don't care about its own business and this never change.



Apparently they have more to say than Polish ass-lickers... If our "power" is supposed to obligate us to follow Brussels then this is some kind of joke.

We have more money/influence/power, we have more friends. Have you noticed how many nations started to admire Poland. Serbs, Turks, Ukrianinans, Lithuenians.
Bitter, yes bitter. Especialy if we remember how many friends we had, when we were in troubles.
Serbs, we have nice word to call them "Jugole" this word has old origin and it doesn't come from BBC or CNN. We know what does it mean and why we call them like that.

There are less than 4000 dead bodies found,the rest are estimates.And these dead bodies belong to both Serbs and Albanians and are mostly KLA members.
The official estimation about 10000 Albanian dead(which followed the pro-bombardment estimation of 100000 albanian dead civilians) was based on a method which WHO uses to estimate number of losses by epidemiological data.If we apply the same method in Iraq war we get 1 million dead Iraqis for the time after the US invasion till now,a number which US has rejected.
So for Kosovo they accept the WHO method while they deny its application in Iraq.Something does not stand here right.

I went on Wikipedia to read a little bit about Kosovo: Kosovo independence

Here is a map of states wich recognized Kosovo, states that intend to, states neutral and states refusing to recognize Kosovo.

Kosovo

States formally recognizing Kosovo as independent (navy blue)

States intending to recognize Kosovo as independent (teal)

States which have delayed or have expressed neutrality on recognition of Kosovo's independence (oak gray)

States which have expressed concern over unilateral moves or wish for further negotiations (orange)

States refusing to recognize Kosovo as independent (red)

States with no reported position as of 19 February (dark grey)


IMO Poland did a smart thing by fallowing most of the EU. There is no reason for them to start any fights in EU and NATO, especially with Russia bulling everybody around lately. It is good to see Poland playing their cards smart.

Also I found interesting that the "other side", not only Serbia, also claims "century old history" in this part of the World.

Southern, to be honest neither of us know the true numbers..... however I would put them at over 30000 thousand... However numbers are not the only factor. the other factor is how these people were killed.

muslims who were unharmed and shot in the back of the head.. No state has the right to execute without a trial... one thing to put them in jail another to kill them.. you cannot kill anybody that is unharmed.. those are rules of engagement...any country that breaks this rule is guilty of war crimes. so please don't tell me Serbs are innocent...



Dice: read about the KLA in wikipedia.....

btw Im a huge supporter of America and its war on terror, however in this case they and most in EU fu*ked up. However unfortunately Poland couldn't pay the political price.

Also here's a good article why its a bad idea to recognize Kosovo independence.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&sta tus=article&id=288402632924430

What the West is doing is trying to avoid another genocide in former Yugoslavia and the need for EU and NATO's participation as peacekeepers. They do not want another war in Europe, that's why most of the Western World would rather see those two sides separated.

I think in 1995 Serbs slaughtered 8000 Bosnian civilians in town of Srebrenica, right in front of 400 Dutch (?) UN soldiers, who were unarmed and couldn't do anything but watch,
This is exactly what the World is trying to avoid this time around.

The US administration accepts the (exaggerated) number of 10000 and you put them at 30000?



The KLA guerillas were killed during the battle by shooting.Their civilian victims were mostly killed in other ways.I do not know if you have noticed a fashion of beheading Serbs which reappeared in the '90s after it had shocked everybody in the '40s.



We are talking here about guerillas.They have not signed the treaty for war prisoners.Do you have any illusion what happens to US soldiers who fall in hands of Iraqi guerillas?Do you think they enjoy the full rights of the treaty for prisoners of war?
Or US troops respect the treaty when facing unarmed guerillas?



Exactly.Grounding Kosovo is war in favour of terror,not against terror.



Illyrians were the ancient Albanians.It is true,I admit that.Not very civilized folks back then but they had the luck that Greek historians who lived just in the south of them mentioned them,so their traditions were known.
Dardanoi were different.Maybe they were Slavs.They were very likely ancestors of the Slavs who now call themselves Macedonians.
Thraces lived where now is south Bulgaria and north-east Greece.Great nation with very interesting traditions,they gave many gods to greek mythology.It is likely their descedants still survive in the same places and if you go there they have retained even some facial characteristics apart from linguistic and culture elements.

Whatever the number is its not that important... the killing of unarmed insurgents is. Your right that guerrillas didn't sign the prisoners of war agreement and they do commit beheadings. But even the US doesn't kill unarmed insurgents. Sure isolated incidents occur but its not the policy of the US as it was the policy of Serbia. Personally I believe all guerillas derserve to be shot, however the truth is that it is a war crime.... Recognizing Kosovo is a mistake but Serbia is not innocent. Serbia should have handed over all war criminals and recognizing Kosovo might not have even happened.

I didn't...

my answer on your replies is here... [i put it in thread dedicated to Polish-Serbian relations, in post #508]

http://www.polishforums.com/polish_serbian_relations_like-34_13254_16. html

high

poland should not lick anyone's arse in different matters eg buying f16
but this was dealt with correctly.slovakia is a little,strange country with no knowlege of the 21st cent politics

Kosovo Serbs turn to peaceful ways to demonstrate
NATO is reinforcing the border between Kosovo and Serbia following recent clashes. Meanwhile, Kosovo Serbs have turned to peaceful ways of expressing their disagreement over Kosovo’s independence. The alliance is also trying to be creative, deploying soldiers from the countries who have not recognised the move.

Every day more and more people join the demonstrations on the Serbian side of Kosovo. The most recent event saw 5,000 protesters marching down the main roads of Kosovska Mitrovice.
It looks like things are calming down.

And when NATO closes the border to prevent more people coming through from Serbia, it’s up to the organisers to be creative and draw people from their daily lives out onto the streets. For one of the demonstrations, a famous rock band from Belgrade was the draw-card.

http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/21454

I would like to remind you of what happened in Srebrenica in July 1995. To my recollection it were certainly Serbs who committed genocide there. As they did elsewhere during the Yugoslav war.

M-G (Serbia should lose the idea that the entire world is against them.)

Im not writting this post to argue about the innocence of Serbia but to put the blame equally on the Albanian minority... Serbs should be punished, their leaders should be prosecuted for war crimes... However we shouldn't punish the Serbs by rewarding the KLA (Albanians).... KLA started this war, they just got the short end of the stick...

Something to read to balance out the view.... To show the entire picture...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Liberation_Army

The public opinion should know that Kosovo is the Covadonga of Serbia, where their national identity was forged, in a historic battle against Islam represented by the Ottoman Empire, now Turkey, whose memory indelible would revive the reconstruction of this Balkan country.

Dont blame the US for this because EU is just as responisble... Your embarrased of EU involvement you should be, but dont try to absolve them from there blame... This is such a European thing to do..... Be equally involved in decision making with the US but when you see the decisions aren't the right ones you back away and say you were pressured into it.... if EU wants to be treated as an equal partner than have the courage to take responsibility for your actions....

Many tiny EU states have not yet recognized Kosovo.... If they are able to withstand your so called pressure... much more powerful countries such as Germany and France should be able to do so also.....

As to the second point of that sentance.....Kosovonians are secular and I wouldn't say new Islamic state, however having a muslim state that supported the KLA can be dangerous for Europe...

As to your anti-Crusade comment...lol you got us were advocating a Crusade in middle east but were advocating a anti-Crusade in Europe..... Ummmm lmao,....this should tell you that is not about religion.....

Actually the photo you posted shows heads of beheaded Serbs while the shoe on them belongs to a mujahendin.Wrong photo Mare Gaea.The Hague tribunal did not accept these photos because they were way too much for the ''audience sensitivity.''

Hm, of course there is a sense of spectacular in these pix, however, that was not the point. My point was to react to that senseless remark of Crow that the Serbs never committed organized ethnical cleansing and genocide. When in fact they did. And I got this pic actually from a site dealing with Srebrenica, which btw has been a national trauma for Holland as the UN troops supposed to defend the city where Dutch. I admit though that solely from the boot and leg it is hard to tell wether this is a Serbian soldier or a Bosnian soldier. Besides this, it were the Serbs who started the cleansing and it was also them who created concentration camps.

M-G

Edit: on behalf of the Dutch UN Troops I would like to state that, even though it has been an issue of major discussion in Holland about who was to blame for the genocide, it was kinda hard for the troops to defend the city when you only have light materials, the explicit command not to use violence and are surrounded by an overwhelming number of Serbian troops, armed with heavy tanks and artillery. There was no way they could have defended the city, even though it was considered a Safe Zone. It didn't stop Mladic anyway. If Serbia wants to make a big step towards being accepted in Europe and admitted to the EU, it should now without hesitation deliver this war criminal to the Tribunal in The Hague.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

Sheds a bit of different light on all this Slavic talk, doesn't it?

A Look at Bosnian Muslim Propaganda that Molded Western Opinion against Bosnian Serbs

Staged Sarajevo Atrocities



Lord Owen

It is well known that on the Bosnian side atrocities have taken place. Nobody denies this. And the perpetrators will be prosecuted. But as far as I know, the Bosniaks did NOT build concentration camps for Serbs. Anyway, the fact that one side commits atrocities does not diminish the fact that the other side commits them as well.

M-G

Edit: it was not propaganda like this that moulded Western opinion against the Bosnian Serbs - it was their own deeds that moulded the Western opinion.

Maybe from the boot and leg you cannot recognize the person but to whom the heads belonged can be known,I think you do not object this.Let Crow inform us whose head the boot presses.

Are you sure? Before you know it he says it is his brother or father, which will be followed by a seemingly endless saga of Serb/Slav history ending in that this is a justification to kill some more Bosniaks who had no part in all of it.

M-G

my work day is over and my weekend just started, black cat

so, please don`t force me to fight against stupidity so early. Try tomorrow, i relaxing now, surfing thru Polishforums.com

i would say it tomorrow, again, if necesery- Serbs didn`t commite genocide. Genocide was commited on Serbs and, Serbs are biggest victims of ethnical cleansing. Don`t listen BBC, CNN, DEUTSCHE WELLE, ect false media. It could destroy your brain


Serbs are last bearers of honest Sarmatian name, Serbs knows truth, speak truth and of course Serbs are right. That`s how it is

This was a political decision.

Serbs should not be angry with Poles, as this was not decided by the Polish majority.

This disgusts me as well.