26.February 2008 - The day when Poland sold Serbia!

Serbs aren`t angry on Poles. We understand politics

Decisions of official Poland aren`t Serbian problem. It is now Polish problem and Serbs just expect that Polish governmant collapse under pressure of Polish public. It is necesery.

...yes, i know Poles, you sleep. But, wake up Now! Time is runing, history won`t wait

i truly hope that future generations in Europe don’t have to wake up every morning by the sounds of Muslim prayers and read re-written history books.

Slavs should write their history

don't make me laugh.... I would choose the EU over Russia anyday.....

lough on this then...

I would prefer Poland over EU anyday


you put things the wrong way

It`s not that Poland have to choose between Russia and EU. Russia isn`t whole Slavdom. Far from that. Not to mention that all Slavic nations/countries represent just conglomerate of numerous ancient Slavic tribes and clans.

Poland would face the choice- to be Slavic or not to be Slavic. Don`t deflect from that truth. Remember Hantington`s Clash of civilizations that I mentioned, brate. Somebody already placed Poland outside of Slavic world. Somebody play on Russian-Polish antagonism to turn Poland in anti-Slavic bastion, to germanized Poland finaly.

To criticize Russia is one and it is OK (let`s do it togather), but to turn back to Slavdom, to your own civilization is something else.

In case you didn't know, Poland has great relationships with all Slavic people except Russia.... so no one placed Poland outside Slavic world... My hope is that Poland and Ukraine unite to be a countermeasure to Russia.... with the great possibility of Ukraine in the EU this might happen.

Ukraine uniting with Poland is a pipedream but it would be interesting as a counterbalance in the region.

Poland was first Slavic coutry that suported dissolution of Serbian state. Recognition of independance of Kosovo was enormous blow (by stupid and corrupt politicians) in Poland`s influence inside of Slavic world

only downfall of politicians (Tusk is symbol of it) who are behind that stupidity can restore Polish crediblity


again, you put things wrong way

It is one to criticize Russia but, it is the other thing to work against Russia (any Slavic coutry) to give Russian (any) resources on the silver plate to non-Slavs.

Kosovo example proved that Polish political elite isn`t honest. Now, seams that Polish politicians just wants to replace Russian domination in Slavic world, with Polish (their own) domination.

Now, Serbians would insist that Belgrade MUST be center of future Slavic Alliance, which is obviously inevitable to be created. Only Serbian inteligentsia see only SLAVS among numerous Slavic nations and countries and giving all due respect to local diversity, accepting even fact that Slavic nations represent just conglomerate of many old Slavic tribes and clans.

Expect that support to Serbian inteligentsia and Serbia grows in all Slavic coutries, in Poland particulary. You would see that Slavs knows that they are just Slavs among other Slavs and that they are ready to support intellectual center which guranties freedom to them.

Speaking on the short range, particulary about Ukraine, you would see very soon that official Poland loosing influence among both- Catholic and Orthodox Ukrainians. Similar respond expect in Slovakia, Czeska, Byelorussia.


after this what happened to Serbs, EU is seen as true anti-Slavic evil, from majority of Ukrainians

for example, after NATO bombardment of Serbia, Ukrainian public (Catholic and Orthoodx) changed its stance on Ukrainian NATO membership and all pools suggested that more then 71% of Ukrainians strongly oppose to Ukrainian-NATO closer ties.

Attack on Serbs announced end on NATO expansion among Slavs, not Russian power. And you see, again, its not about Russian stance. All the time, it is about Serbian position. That`s why Serbs are target- as great spiritual and intellectual potential of Slavic world.


see [i mentioned this]...

disregard religous aspect of borders and just focus to which side (majority non-Slavic), Poland has been placed

Huntington's map of major civilizations, which did not attempt to identify "lone countries" and certain exceptional cases. Represents Huntington's overall view as of the publication of Clash of Civilizations in 1996

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations
Clash of Civilizations, by Samuel Huntington

Not necessarily, in the next few months we should know the exact details... If Ukraine joins Nato depeding on the Nato meeting in Romania, than it won't be more than a decade before Ukraine joins the EU.

Tusk already linked it to the club med proposal by Sarkozy.... If Sarkozy wants Poland's support in the project he must do more to bring Ukraine into the EU...



well maybe if Serbia wasn't so close to Russia than it might have occured differantly... Serbia must choose it's allies wisely.... Why sell your oil industry to the one country that has shown it wants to dominate Poland....



I much more prefer the side that Poland is on as compared to the one Serbia is on.....

I think u overrate the potential impact of Ukraine in the EU Matty. Many Poles are inherently distrustful of Ukraine.

First part we are kind of distrustful of Ukraine because they haven't fully embraced the EU... Doesn't matter, within a decade this should change... Ukraine is slowely becoming more and more pro EU...

As to the second part,

Ukraine can have a huge impact on the EU at least for Poland... First providing a new ally in countering Moscow's influence and providing a new ally in countering Germany's and Frances influence. It would be a beautiful thing. Also with a combined population between us of 80 million people we can be a forminable military force in the world... Not to mention the economic benefits it would also bring for Poland by providing a tarriff free trading zone..

What u maybe fail to realise is that Ukraine and Poland focus more on defence and not attack Matty. Yeah, Poland has troops in Afghanistan but defending the homeland is top priority. A formidable military force, hmm, I have my doubts.

Forgive me for saying so, but u seem to have a utopian view of this partnership. I don't think Poland is trying to compete with France or Germany, Poland is a long way off being a frontrunner at the helm of the EU.

your position surprising me

No matter that you don`t have any historic situation in Polish-Serbian relations which would support thesis that Serbs could batray Polish interests, you inist on Russian-Polish antagonism as reason to deflect from Serbs.

In Serbian eyes, both- Russia and Poland are responsible for their mutual misunedrstandings. Just, majority of ordinary Serbs and Serbian inteligentsia would tell you that they consider Russia more responsible, regarding Polish hard position between German pressure and Russian power and, Serbs thinks that Russia needed to sacrafice more for Poland. Don`t tell me that Serbs are naive. We aren`t naive. We believe in dream about Slavia. Russians learned to respect our position

Yeah looking at it now. In the next 20 to 30 years I wouldn't be so sure.



Agreed, Poland is never going to be front runner.... However it will be one of the top countries if it plays it's cards right...



Selling your oil industry to Russia sure didn't help Poland.... Especially with Russia using Gasprom as a politcal tool..



You have no respect from Russia.... if you did they would pay you the full price your oil industry is worth....

Russia never pays full dollar Matty, u should know that. They extract bargains through careful negotiating and, at times, thrashed out haggling. The only time they get ANYWHERE close to US spending is in arms and missiles deals but they had huge stockpiles b4 so they haven't needed to go down this road for quite a while

I do, just trying to point out to Crow that, that is not respect...

Aha, it's up as me having said it when it was Crow. Simple mistake. Have u checked ur PM Matty?

i did, funny as hell..... im singing it in my head right now

Why is there all this hostility towards Poland selling Serbia? As if Poland was at the head of it. This is an INTERNATIONAL issue that required international adjudication for a resolution. Poland may be guilty for bowing to external pressure but it by no means sold Serbia down the river

Beautifully said....... you hit that right on the ding a ling.....

It's easy to play the Slav card but where were the decisive Serbian efforts in stamping out communism in Poland? The UN should shoulder any responsibility but the liberation of Kosovo was the culmination of years of decision-making and consideration. It's not as if it was 'u scratch my back and I'll scratch urs'. Favour swapping was not how this issue was handled, far from it

I agree with this sentiment.

As I said in a previous post, I admire and respect the Serbian people, but at the same time, Serbs need to learn how to compromise and to respect Polish feelings of historical animosity toward Russia. Belgrade wouldn't be pleased if Poland completely prostituted its resources to and formed military alliances with Albania or Croatia, so it's a two-way street.

wait, you want to say that there is possibility that Russia also sold Serbia?

Listen. It`s not kind a news for Serbs. We used to it. Sometimes, trecherous Russian elite did it in the past, when they our loyalty to Slavdom, in their selfishness, confused with loyalty to Russia.

But, if you want to say that Poland, same as Russia, has right to behave as some hegemonic power, I would dissappoint you. It can`t pass, it won`t pass. It didn`t pass to trecherous Russian elite, it won`t pass to trecherous Polish elite.

Yes thats exactly what Im trying to say........ Russia doesn't care about Serbia...... I wish Serbia all the best..... use Russia for now but when you get the chance drop them like its hot...



Russia is acting like this not Poland... Seanus had a good post about the reason Poland recognized Serbia....

I think Serbia failed badly a few years ago in giving "due respect" when it came to its treatment of Slovenes and Croats. Both Slavs, I believe.

Yeah, to describe that as brutal would be an understatement!!

you think so?

go ask Czechs, Slovaks, Byelorussians or Ukrainians in some of their forums

after all, go ask Poles on streets of Poland

Polish politics failed, its obvious and don`t serve Poles but who knows whom

In the same time, you always insist that Russia is wrong. Truth, Russia mistaken a lot of in past and harmed other Slavs. But, everybody deserve chance to learn on mistakes

So, seams that Russia learning on mistakes, defending internationaly established order and, Poland making Russian mistakes from past. Its wrong.

listen I dont support Poland recognizing Kosovo, but I also don't support Serbia being ally's with Russia.....



unfortunately it doesn't seem Russia is learning... How many chances can we give them?????

if you accept to believe in anti-Serbian propaganda launched to prepare western public on conquest on Serbs, it still won’t turn that propaganda into facts

You don’t know practically nothing about events in former Yugoslavia and you judge to Serbs.

In the same time, if you could be true Polish, you could know that Racowie can’t failed as anti-Racowie propaganda suggests.

Exactly.

Yes, Poles should stand by Serbs in the defense of national sovereignty rights over Kosovo, as some other European nations have done, such as Romania and Spain, but the Serbs need to branch out with their allies. Do you know that Belgrade just put a ban on shipments of weapons to Georgia and Armenia, out of the mere fear that it would offend the Russians? It's this type of slave mentality that should disgust all Poles.