I feel the gay rights movement is constrained Poland

I think education in these matters is very important. for exactly the reasons you quote. also in the uk young people are sleeping around so much, (not all) they need to be aware of the consequenses. the way to say it is fancying.. hope you don't mind me correcting you lol hope I spelled that correctly, or I will be corrected as well:)

lol...

lol its cool, I fancy that.

that's it you got it.. ;-) lol

Whilst the UK is more tolerent, homosexuality is never going to be considered the "norm" its not just about public opinion its about family opinion too. Poland just a little further to go before it becomes more acceptable, I personally dont think its about "gay pride" marches I think it's more about people being open about their sexuality in normal and every day life.

For a sociaty that constantly bleats on about being oppresed under the commies you dont half love still oppresing your own people do you. Its a case of the abused becoming the abusors.

Could that be because homosexuality isnt the "norm" and probably never will be the "norm, in the UK or anywhere else?

That said, the UK is a much more accepting and tolerant society in most areas, when compared to Poland

Because of the openess and tolerance of gays in London and the fact that I have more than a few gay friends, my partner believes that 95% of British men must be gay. I have told him its more like 85%, but he wont have it :)

What is normal - wife, husband x2 kids and 3 up 3 down....those days are fast disappearing. Homosexuality has been about for a very long time and most probably it will be accepted as the norm in maybe another 100 years time - if you think back no so long ago it was illegal for 2 men to have sex, its not now..times change and so do attitudes.

That's a very blinkered view... how do you define "the norm"?

Somewhere along the lines of 'normal'

You?

so, go on... what is normal? hetero? mum, dad, son, daughter, dog and cat "hi honey, I'm home..."?

I think we can safely say that there is no country in the world where homosexuality is the standard pattern of behaviour considered normal by society, i.e. the 'norm'.

completey accepted then, maybe that is a better use of words...inter-racial relationships were unheard of 100 years ago....wouldn't you agree that they are considered "completely acceptable"

I know what you are trying to say Shelley and agree with you, just not your wording :)

Yeah the 'Norm' isnt quite the best way of putting it. If you are in London town it isnt unusual to encounter gay folk where ever you go, no one bats an eyelid up there, but the further out you go the less comfortable it is.
Age has a lot to do with it also, it will be another couple of generations at least before the 'oldies' can accept that they wont catch 'Homo-disease' by sharing the same air as someone who likes the same sex.

A little while ago, an older guy at work who quite often had no problems expressing his disgust at the very idea of homosexuality, came to me one day and told me his Son had just 'come out' to him, and he was scared. He wanted to know more about it all, if there was anything he should be worried about, what rumours were true and not, etc.
I was pleasantly surprised to be honest, his first notion was not:
"Can i cure him"
but more
"Can I support him?"

Which just goes to show that you can be as strong as you want about your opinion of an alien matter, but when it happens close to home everything can change in an instant.

Made me laugh though, he came to me coz he thought i was gay.
Happens a lot to me, i guess you cant be a devilishly good looking slim guy with fantastic hair and great dress sense without someone judging you...

Did i say modest too? he he.

"If you are in London town it isnt unusual to encounter gay folk where ever you go, no one bats an eyelid up there, but the further out you go the less comfortable it is."
what a god awfull london centric statement that is...piffle,Ive worked with a couple of guys who moved up here(yorkshire) from london and they told me this area is far more accepting than ANYWHERE down south 'cept maybe Brighton.....

Oh granted, i'm talking specifically central London, the big touristy/clubby areas. Anything goes up there dude, but yeah you dont have to go much further before you hit the hate-barrier.
I should remember that words i use are not going to be taken the same internationally, or even as close as Yorkshire. The term 'London Town' round here means the centre and nothing more. I live in Greenwich, its still London but very different from the glass-towers, smog and hustle of the big city.
I could dress as a fairy up there, with bright green hair and ride a unicycle and it would only be the occasional tourist who would look at me funny!

On a biological level the norm is the ability to procreate, which is at the basis of survival of the species, and life itself. In humans, homosexual pairs do not have that ability, therefore they might be said to be outside the norm.

Well then we need to go back to the question again:

Do people not get married for love? even if they cannot conceive children?

i might not be right so if anyone knows different then correct me, but if you get married in a catholic church its your duty to concieve children and if your partner has hidden the fact that they cant concieve, you can easily get the marriage annulled.

That's more or less right, JustysiaS. But technically the Catholic Church doesn't mind if you're gay. You just can't be a PRACTICING homosexual. This of course makes no sense, but sometimes the Catholic Church and common sense don't always see eye to eye.

you're mixing two concepts.
Love doesn't require sex, neither does sex require love. I was writing about biology, not about a concept called love, which btw, according to a saying I heard somewhere, [love] is a trick nature plays on us to ensure perpetuation of the species. That "rule", obviously, doesn't apply to gays ;)

Wow thats a bit harsh!

Although if we look in the rule book...


It doesn't really say yes, and it doesn't really say no! he he...

Actually, in RCC it does make sense. According to the doctrine, extramarital sex is not legit. Gays can;t get married, ergo their sex is by definition illegal in RCC.

I see your points, but this is gonna start getting silly soon. And i wouldnt say its me mixing concepts, the question i think was "is being gay the norm?"

If 'Gays' cannot get married, then there is, in effect, no such thing as extra-marrital anything for them.

It will bring us back to Religion again, and i'm getting dizzy from all these circles we're running in!

And I suggested an answer from a purely biological standpoint. It happens but is not the norm. Just like diabetes happens (possibly more often than homosexuality) but it is not a normal state.


Quite the opposite. It is immaterial why someone is not married. It may seem unfair to gays, but it is extramarital sex in RCC.

Ha haha! you win with this quote alone!

You are right. The marriage can be annulled for this reason.

Wow! thats disgusting. I hope people dont really do that.



Actually, yes they can these days.