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The final "ę"


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Vincent
  Sep 13, 07, 04:07  #1

I have read that an "ę" in the middle of a word is pronounced "en" ( sometimes "em" ) and at the end of a word just as ordinary e. However I was watching a Polish language video this morning and, a lady said Dzie-ku-jen and her male companion said Dzie-ku-ja.

It is a bit confusing and I wondered if there are any cases when the final "ę" is pronounced "en" as I have also heard it with the word "się" a few times. Just to make it a bit more complicated there are lots of words in the Polish dictionary ending in "e" and "ę" Thanks to anyone who may help.

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ojrana
  Sep 13, 07, 07:13  #2

ę = [ e ] before l or ł or at the end of a word. for example DZIĘKUJĘ CI/WAM -thank You

more info - http://free.of.pl/g/grzegorj/gram/gram01.html#ogoniaste

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Krzysztof
  Sep 13, 07, 08:55  #3

it all comes down to the style, if you talk in Queen's (or Royal or whatever you call it) English, you pronounce the words/sounds differently from a standard "street" talk, it's the same for Polish, final "ę" pronounced as "e" has been officially accepted by the linguistic/phonetical councils of Polish language, so it's not considered a mistake anymore to pronounce "dziękuje", "sie" etc., but if you want to speak in a very proper and correct way, then you should say "dziękuję", "się" etc.

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Ronek
Edited by: Ronek  Sep 13, 07, 08:57  #4

Quoting: Krzysztof
mistake anymore to pronounce "dziękuje"


yeah you can but people in certain circles might look down at you ;)

But its a fact that polish started changing again, many many changes, diference in pronounciation. Luckly most of it is not accepted. But verything has some sort of effect. If you see an old polish movie form lets 20s they spoke a lot different.

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porta
  Sep 13, 07, 10:11  #5

I have heard people say it like "dzienkuje" is that also correct?

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Zgubiony
  Sep 13, 07, 10:13  #6

Quoting: porta
I have heard people say it like "dzienkuje" is that also correct?

It sounds like that, but I think that you're hearing the nasality in that ę


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Ronek
  Sep 13, 07, 10:16  #7

Quoting: porta
I have heard people say it like "dzienkuje" is that also correct?


some do, especialy young ppl tend to simplify language.

If you hear old ppl talking they talk completly different polish.
Most of middle aged ppl would speak something that we would consider proper polish.
there are youngster as I've mentioned.
And there is also all sorts of ethnic minorities, like silesians, kashubians, highlanders and they tend to speak a lot different, and most of them even if they try to speak proper polish you can hear in in their accent and how they say things.
There is also staropolski (old polish) but you can find it mostly in the books and only few ppl use it.

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Wyspianska
  Sep 13, 07, 10:19  #8

Quoting: Ronek
Quoting: porta
I have heard people say it like "dzienkuje" is that also correct?


some do, especialy young ppl tend to simplify language.


some = idiots

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Vincent
  Sep 14, 07, 04:37  #9

Thanks to all,for the link, information and comments.
This helps a lot, and is much appreciated

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kochanie
  Sep 17, 07, 13:19  #10

Quoting: Wyspianska
Quoting: Ronek
Quoting: porta
I have heard people say it like "dzienkuje" is that also correct?


some do, especialy young ppl tend to simplify language.


some = idiots


lol, straight to the point x

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hello
  Sep 17, 07, 13:23  #11

It sounds unnatural if you pronounce "ę" at the end of a Polish word - you should just stick to "e."

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Krzysztof
  Sep 17, 07, 15:53  #12

I disagree :)

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Vincent
  Sep 22, 07, 06:43  #13

Quoting: hello
It sounds unnatural if you pronounce "ę" at the end of a Polish word - you should just stick to "e."


Well I think it's very confusing for a beginner trying to master Polish words, when all these language courses, conflict with each other.
Today I was listening to another audio source and They were pronouncing the "ę" on the end. I have heard the words "Dziękuję"and"Proszę" spoken in so many various ways, that, I'm not sure how it should be said any more?

If there are any native Polish speakers reading this, and would spare their time, could you please point out what other letters, ( if any ) change at the end of a word. It would be very helpful to myself and any other beginners. Thanks for any help.

the ones that I have found so far are..

b=p
d=t
g=k
v=f if "v" is used in foreign word.

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Bondi
  Sep 28, 07, 04:47  #14

b=p
d=t
g=k
v=f if "v" is used in foreign word.

Yes, Polish is a soft language, and most of these things simply come down to the voiced/unvoiced assimilation. For instance, try to pronounce the name "Kwiatkowska". You'll naturally say "Kfiatkofska". :)

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Pratush
  Sep 28, 07, 05:35  #15

Quoting: Bondi
Polish is a soft language


I always felt it was not such a soft language....

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